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View Full Version : For Abuz-Zubair: Isnaad of this hadeeth... Authentic?


AhluSunnah
19th June 2007, 07:19 PM
Salaamun Alaykum,

Can someone please enlight me about the authenticity of the below metioned hadeeth? I have heard that Ibn al-Qayyim and others have declared it as saheeh but i also have come to know that Al-Albaanee has declared it as Da3eef. Can we say that this hadeeth is weak for positive surety? And are there any other ahadeeth narrated with this wording in other hadeeth collections which would strengthen this narration?

Barak Allahu feekum.

Abu Dawud also published from Umm Salamah by way of Salih Abu'l-Khaleel from a companion of his from Umm Sal amah, that he said,

يكون اختلاف ثم موت خليفة يخرج رجل من قريش من
أهل المدينة إلى مكة فيأتيه ناس من اهل مكة فيخرجونه وهو
كاره فيبايعونه بين الركن والمقام إليه جيشا من أهل الشام
فإذا كانوا بالبيداء خسف بهم فإذا بلغ الناس ذلك أتاه أهل
الشام وعصائب من أهل العراق فيبايعونه وينشأ رجل من
قريش أخواله من كلب إليهم جيشا فيهزمونهم ويظهرون
عليهم فيقسم بين الناس فيؤهم ويعمل فيهم وعشرون
نبيهم صلى الله عليه وسلم ويلقى الإسلام بجرانه إلى الأرض
يمكث سبع سنين

"There will be disagreement at the death of a Khilafah, so a man from Madinah will come out fleeing to Makkah, and the people of Makkah will come to him and bring him out (as a claimant for the Khilafah) against his will and swear allegiance to him between the Corner (of the Ka'bah in which the black stone is) and the station (of Ibrahim). An expeditionary force will be sent against him from Sham (Syria) and the earth will swallow them up in the waterless desert between Makkah and Madinah. When people see that, the Abdal of the people of Sham will come to him and the companies of the people of Iraq and they will swear allegiance to him. Then a man of Quraysh will arise (in rebellion) whose maternal uncles are (the tribe of) Kalb, and an expeditionary force will be sent against them and they will conquer them, and that is the expeditionary force of Kalb, and there is disappointment for whoever does not attend (the division of) the spoils of Kalb. So he will divide up the wealth, and he will act among people according to their Prophet's Sunnah and he will throw Islam by its neck on the earth. He will remain seven years then die and the Muslims will pray over him" [Abu Dawud Book 36, Number 427]

Abuz Zubair
19th June 2007, 07:39 PM
I wouldn't have the time for this now, but why don't you go to the English Multaqa... I am sure ppl will be able to help you there.

Um Abdullah M.
19th June 2007, 07:48 PM
The link for the English multaqa is in my signature.

justabro
19th June 2007, 08:01 PM
It is weak according to Sh. al-Albani (al-Silsilah al-Da`ifah, no. 1965) and also Sh. Shu'ayb al-Arna'ut in his comments on Musnad.

AhluSunnah
19th June 2007, 09:29 PM
OK barak Allahu feekum.

But i heard a lecture of Brother Yassir Qadhi regarding this and he mentioned that this narrations is authentic and he also mentioned that Shaikh al-Albaanee classed it as weak... so i was thinking that maybe there is some prove to strengthen this narration..? and i saw in a few books regarding this that it was classed as 'reliable'. I was just listening to a lecture of Shaikh Ahmad Jibril regarding the Mahdi and he uses also this narration. He regards it as Saheeh.

justabro
19th June 2007, 10:26 PM
sh. yasir has a degree in hadith and is no doubt more knowledgeable than i am. indeed, some chains of it appear authentic.

However, every time it is narrated, the chain seems to be different. This raises the question of which version is the "true" chain. I tend to agree with Sh. Shu'ayb and Sh. al-Albani that the one that mentions Mujahid as the missing link, although it appears to be authentic on its face, is not so.

I recall that there were some other hadiths he mentioned in his lecture series on Imam Mahdi which he considered authentic but I don't agree with that conclusion. Allah Knows Best.

AhluSunnah
19th June 2007, 10:43 PM
Akhi Justabro i will just quote to you insha'Allah what Shaikh Tawfique Chawdri said:

''Number 9, he will be given bay'ah to between the Rukn and the Maqam, Rukn al-jamani and between maqam al-ibrahim, AND THIS IS AN AUTHENTIC HADITH IN ABI DAWUD that rasool (salalalhu alaihi wasalam) had said that a man of my ummah will be given bay'ah to between this two places, so he will stand between Maqam al-ibrahim and Rukn jamani and he will be given bay'ah to by the people just as the rasool (sallalahu alaihi wassalm) was given bay'ah to at the time when he conquered Makkah.'' (Mahdi, track 7, min. 2:05/2:32).

abu~Adil as somali
19th June 2007, 10:46 PM
i was at that same lecture last sunday..wer u there aswell brother

AhluSunnah
19th June 2007, 10:46 PM
So akhi, what do you think; can we say that ANY of this, the bay'ah between Rukn and Maqam, has any basis in authentic narrations? I'm a little bit confused now... do Shaikh Nassr and Shaikh Suhayb deny that the Mahdi will be given Bay'ah between the Rukn and the Maqam?

Jazak Allahu ghairan brother.

AhluSunnah
19th June 2007, 10:48 PM
akhi Abu~Abdil As-Somali do u mean me? if so, no akhi i wasn't there.

justabro
19th June 2007, 11:02 PM
So akhi, what do you think; can we say that ANY of this, the bay'ah between Rukn and Maqam, has any basis in authentic narrations? I'm a little bit confused now... do Shaikh Nassr and Shaikh Suhayb deny that the Mahdi will be given Bay'ah between the Rukn and the Maqam?

Jazak Allahu ghairan brother.

In his notes on this hadith on al-Da'ifah, sh. Albani says it is authentic from Umm Salamah in summarized form mentioning only the story of them being swalloed up, but not the bay'ah or other aspects...

if the bay'ah is mentioned in other reports, then perhaps it is authentic, but sh. al albani definitely thinks this one is not authentic and i agree with him... actually, i have not researched the topic in detail but i am for now skeptical about most of the hadiths that mention explicit detail about the doings of the mahdi

note: i do believe in the coming of the mahdi, that he will be from the descendants of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم), that he will fill the world with justic, and that it is established authentically, but i dont know what of the detailed explicit accounts about his doings are actually authentic, and Allah knows best.