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Anonymous

10th August 2005, 11:58 AM

May Allaah reward the writer.

The silence of the Muslims (in general) is as shocking on this matter as it is deafening.

As the author so lucidly stated, Hizb Ut-Tahreer are a political organisation who are avowedly non-violent and who operate well within the law. Therefore, the only possible reason for banning them is that the Mandarins in Whitehall
cannot stomach their views, regardless of the fact that they have the 'democratic right' to have them. If we Muslims remain silent now, I am sure that the government will begin banning other groups, organisations, and institutions of its arbritary choosing.******* 

As for the Muslims, it is sad to see that personal grudges and old unsettled scores have taken precendence to justice and solidarity.

As the author stated, few of us agree with HT's methodology or ideas; but since when did justice entail standing up only for those whom one agrees with wholeheartedly?

Those Muslims who are currently rubbing their hands with glee whilst sucking up to the powers that be, are, in reality, signing their own future death warrants, to be executed by those very powers. And their own 'deaths' will be far more disgraceful and humuliating than those that preceded them - that is what history has taught us.

Nasim Chowdhury

Anonymous

10th August 2005, 10:57 PM

Masha Allah, well pointed out. This is in fact an attempt to silence the Muslims living in the UK. We must stand firm and not be dettered by the current climate of fear that has been imposed upon the Muslims. This ban on HT is setting a basis to ban us all. I see this*******government militarising this country which will infact suppress all freedoms muslim or non-muslim following in the foot steps of the USA.

I would like to know what practical steps can be taken to stop this attempt to silence us all.

Ma'asalaama

Anonymous

11th August 2005, 07:37 AM

<div>MAy AllahSWT bless the writer.</div><div></div><div>Alhamdullilah, at last an article where the author realises the long term Implications of what this first banning means. Don't the so called "peaceful" Muslims realise that whats happeneing with HT today is a what their future will be like tomorrow.</div><div>*******</div><div>Peace is Good agreed, but at what cost. Is it worth what the west ultimately would want - A future where a Pseudo religion called "Islam" consisting of Female Imams, No Hijabs, No beards,*******No Shariah*******would be allowed to flourish in the name of peace?</div><div>*******</div><div>May AllahSWT bless the diligent among Muslims and may*******HE grant them*******HIS protection and HIS reprieve.</div><div></div><div>

And when those who disbelieve plot against you (O Muhammad) to wound you fatally, or to kill you, or to drive you forth; they plot, but Allah (also) plots, and Allah is the best of plotters". Holy Our'an Surah AL- Anfal*******(8:30)</div>

Anonymous

11th August 2005, 11:06 AM

Anonymous

11th August 2005, 12:00 PM

This article just highlights that democracy and the western system is not compatible with islam at all. There is no way they will tolerate islam in any way. They claim to be 'friends' of muslims hiding behind democracy and human rights but in reality it is a way of keeping muslims in check so the west can dominate.

Therefore this article is shallow when it refers to human rights as something muslims also want. This is wrong as our rights are defined by allah swt and we dont need the human rights of creation to tell us what our rights are.

In a previous article the author says that we should vote in the UK. How can he be serious when the whole system is against islam. The author with those comments is making the muslims in the UK like the bull ready for sacrifice by working with the lion not helping in preventing us being sabatoged by the government(lion).

I*******think this author needs to polish up on his politics as writing a few articles here or there does not warrant credit.

Anonymous

11th August 2005, 09:55 PM

Well, according to newspaper reports:

1) The University of Wales is end a relationship with a well know Islamic Institute based in France.

2) It seems unlikely that Shaykh Yusuf Al-Qardawi will come to the UK again.

Read this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1730202,00.html

Why mention this?

Well, because both are approved of by the same enlightened group that seems to believe that success lies in not only towing the government line, but, also by propagating and marketing government policy to the Muslims.

It seems that this has backfired on them though, hence the above measures to be taken by the government. 

Perhaps it is high time these brothers and sisters had a re-think of policy, before they find themselves in the Job Centre?

Anonymous

13th August 2005, 05:02 PM

I have a few questions:

1. Why is it that we only hear Muslims speak of "Freedom of Speech" in Western countries while such freedom is never permitted in countries where Islam is the governing body?*******

2. Why is it that the speach these Muslims demand in these Western countries is almost always the right to speak freely about acting violently toward their fellow citizens who have graciously accepted them into their countries or when they speak of taking control of these countries and making them Islamic theocracies?

3. If the kind of speaking that Hizb-ut-Tahrir,******* Abu Bakr (and others) are participating in paints Islam as a violent religion bent on world domination, why would Muslims want him to speak freely, unless of course these men aren't really part of a small "fringe" group that have hijacked Islam and they actually represent all Muslims and Islam as it really is.

Anonymous

15th August 2005, 07:34 PM

As a muslim all i would like in this world is place to worship god freedly without having (big brother(the government) infringe*******my privacy. 

People just fail to listen or take serous the concerns by muslim itelectuals/ scholars,shiekhs, about many issues including*******friendly dictators that western nations have been supporting and what cen result when freedom of self determination is dened to the gernal public all over the middle east and other muslim contries with the exception of malaysia. 

Any how the**************circumstance differ from on country to anther from one socity to another....In somalia for example the main concern now is to have stable ceneral governemnt, and peace.....freedom of speech is not high on the list of public demands. As for muslim in the UK if Hizb ul tahrir is being ban a non violent group...i remamber how they spoke out aganist the dictator of Uzbakistan whose army killed peaceful protesters while many stay quit.

May god bless all those who work toward goodness.

peace...

http://www.islamonline.net/English/In_Depth/Iraq_Aftermath/2003/05/article_13.shtml

Anonymous

15th August 2005, 10:59 PM

Well, I did not know it would happen so quickly.

*******

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1548786,00.html 

*******

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1548936,00.html 

*******

It seems that the chickens really are coming home to roost.

Anonymous

17th August 2005, 03:11 AM

Oh, so the people in Muslim countries aren't so concerned about "freedom of speech" because they're too concerned about not getting caught up in the next slaughter?

Anonymous

17th August 2005, 09:19 AM

'Curious' child, please enlighten me as to where exactly on earth Islam is the 'governing body.'

Sadly, based on your comments, it seems that you share the same level of poltical acumen and knowledge of the world we live in as George W Bush.

Anonymous

17th August 2005, 12:00 PM

"If you dont like it, LEAVE."

you will begin to see this emerge and spread thru the uk
till the full meaning is understood, it will be too late.

gag order

17th August 2005, 11:14 PM

muslims can say whatever they please if you cant handle it then leave this forum and dont come back! no body asked you to come here and nobody is asking you to stay, so get lost. 

we are*******entitled to freedom of speech, we say whatever*******we want you cant stop*******us and theres nothing you can do about it!

if you dont want us to have freedom of speech then stop advertising and boasting about "freedom of speech"*******and how good it is.*******

I will defend, to your death, my right to my opinion.

Anonymous

18th August 2005, 03:04 AM

Nasim - For instance in Saudi Arabia.******* There is very restricted freedom of speech there regarding the government and zero tolerance where any faith other than Islam is concerned. Pretty much the same goes for Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan and several other countries.******* In those countries, people from any other faith have to be very careful as they are watched diligently to make certain they do NOT speak freely or even worse, share their faith. They are even taxed differently and often inprisoned for being of a different faith and in many cases, such as Sudan, speaking of any other faith can get you killed.******* Doesn't the Qur'an even state that those who "freely" choose to leave Islam and turn to another faith are to be killed?******* I'm just curious as to how these kinds of laws within Islam justify living in Western countries where the freedom to choose one's faith is guaranteed by law and why some Muslims demand freedom of speech in the West, but not the countries of their origin. *******

Anonymous

18th August 2005, 03:05 AM

gag order - I certainly hope that wasn't intended for me.*******

Anonymous

18th August 2005, 01:21 PM

Saudi Arabia does not claim to be a secular democracy but rather a country which rules by Shari'ah law (thats the claim anyway) so there is no reason why it should allow freedom of speech to people of other religons, people know that before they go there. 

Brtain and many other Western countries claim to be secular democracies where freedom of speech and religon is a 'right' due to the nature of secularism and democracy they espouse.Therefore people expect those rights before they come to Britain and dont expect it to be taken away just because they are Muslims.

Anonymous

19th August 2005, 08:20 PM

I see, so your originating countries live under a restrictive form of law that denies freedom of speech, thereby automatically denying anyone the free will to choose any other faith other than Islam… right?*******And anyone who goes to those countries needs to know this so they don't attempt to share any other faith with someone or they could face prison.. or worse. *******

And since you believe Western countries are democracies where freedom of speech is allowed you should be able to waltz into those countries and use their laws protecting freedom of speech to promote a religion that you admit denies freedom of speech? How clever 

Except for one thing.

Now I can’t speak for Britain’s laws but here in the U.S. we value our freedoms very strongly. So, we have other laws within our Constitution that also place certain limitations on freedom of speech. For instance, you do not have the freedom to shout “fire” in a crowded theater. Such an act would obviously endanger a lot of people and so it is illegal here.************** You also do not have the freedom to incite violence, and you do not have the freedom to speak of the violent or even peaceful take over of the government of the United States nor to form any organization, club or group*******(including a religion) for the promotion of such a takeover. There are a good many Muslims in the U.S. that are about to get a rude awakening here regarding those laws. So, if you know of any of your Muslim brothers who are over here attempting to take a crack at our democracy you might want to check out the reawakening of our “Sedition Laws” and let them know their efforts are not only in vain, but also dangerous.*******

Anonymous

20th August 2005, 02:51 PM

Gag order once again you speak the truth, we should say it as it is.

Anonymous

20th August 2005, 02:54 PM

Since when did god have children (asstagfurallah), child of god?

Anonymous

20th August 2005, 10:29 PM

Originally Posted by Child of God

I see, so your originating countries live under a restrictive form of law that denies freedom of speech, thereby automatically denying anyone the free will to choose any other faith other than Islam… right?*******And anyone who goes to those countries needs to know this so they don't attempt to share any other faith with someone or they could face prison.. or worse. *******

And since you believe Western countries are democracies where freedom of speech is allowed you should be able to waltz into those countries and use their laws protecting freedom of speech to promote a religion that you admit denies freedom of speech? How clever 

Except for one thing.

Now I can’t speak for Britain’s laws but here in the U.S. we value our freedoms very strongly. So, we have other laws within our Constitution that also place certain limitations on freedom of speech. For instance, you do not have the freedom to shout “fire” in a crowded theater. Such an act would obviously endanger a lot of people and so it is illegal here.************** You also do not have the freedom to incite violence, and you do not have the freedom to speak of the violent or even peaceful take over of the government of the United States nor to form any organization, club or group*******(including a religion) for the promotion of such a takeover. There are a good many Muslims in the U.S. that are about to get a rude awakening here regarding those laws. So, if you know of any of your Muslim brothers who are over here attempting to take a crack at our democracy you might want to check out the reawakening of our “Sedition Laws” and let them know their efforts are not only in vain, but also dangerous.*******




'Child of God', understand, may God guide you and forgive you that :

I myself and*******I suspect the majority of contributors to this discussion are Muslims who are westerners and have very limited contact if any with countries like Saudia Arabia or other 'originating' Muslim countries. The Idea that we left those countries to take advantage of 'freedom' of speech' in the West is ludicrous to most Western born Muslims*******I know in Britain and Euroupe at large. Though perhaps where you live that might be true, I dont know where you live so I couldn't comment on your 'reality'. but in Europe Islam is taking off amongst 2nd,3rd,4th generation Muslims and converts to Islam who have practically no affiliation to any foreign originating country. 

Its simple, if a country claims to live by a religous code rather than having secularism as a basis for the state then you cannot compare the two. 

In an Ideal Islamic state (and none exist, as the Muslim world in my opinion is run by regimes which are on the whole anti Islamic) minority communities like Christians and Jews would have rights clearly defined and protected. These communities historically lived as well protected minorities under even nominal muslim rule. Islam is tolerant of these communities, and Islamic history testifies to that, only an ignorant person would*******deny that in general under islamic rule minority christain and Jewish communities have faired relativeley well.

As for you valuing Freedom greatly, Great. Except in my opinion you are deluded with this concept.You talk about it proudly*******but it doesnt exist either as a principle or in reality.*******There is no freedom in the United States, never has been. Freedom is an absolute concept, i.e there is no such thing as being a little bit free. By definition you are either free or not. Once you place restrictions on someones freedom they cease to be free. Your either free or your not, cant have it both ways. your countries slogans therefore mean nothing and are fake.

I agree with you though, muslims should not incite violence against innocent people in the West. Muslims as a whole do not want the freedom to do that because it would be wrong to do that anyway. However, Muslims are also not stupid, like the American Public..they realise these laws being brought in , are not to protect Innocents against terrorists..they are laws to silence and disable Muslims from legitimate criticism and action in support of their faith and their brethren in faith..this increases the chance of terrorism it does not decrease it as many non muslim commentators in my country have been saying since 9/11.*******

Anonymous

20th August 2005, 11:28 PM

I have to disagree with what you are saying about freedom being absolute. I believe good and evil are absolute, but freedom is not because it depends on how much freedom one expects or demands as to how free they actually are to accomplish what they wish to accomplish in their life. In my case, I have always been and am still free to do all I have ever wished to do.

Here in the states I would venture to say that there have been more laws, or legal findings that were intended to disable Christians from spreading our faith than there have been to prevent Muslims from doing anything. And even with that I am still free to do all I am commanded to do by God.

If what we have been told is true regarding the majority of Muslims being peaceful and not in support of terrorism then one would hope they would understand why the laws restricting the "extremists" are in place. To a good many people here in the U.S. the demand for no profiling of Muslims by "moderates" appears more to be an act of aiding and abetting the "extremists" than anything else.

What makes this even more convincing is the fact that there are a good many people here who are of Arabian descent but have so qualms about being profiled for searches when traveling, because they aren't Muslims. It's only the Muslims who claim to be moderates who complain and file lawsuits of descrimination.

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 12:39 AM

"If what we have been told is true regarding the majority of Muslims being peaceful and not in support of terrorism then one would hope they would understand why the laws restricting the "extremists" are in place."

They do understand******* why, and thats why they disagree with them,. It is only naive 'blindly love your country' Americans who actually beleive those laws will actually do anything to stop terrorism.*******

Ofcourse, your comments about freedom are objectionable. By DEFINITION*******freedom has to be an absolute concept.The fact that you cant do something, even if you wouldnt want to do it means your not free.*******So the very slogan of freedom is fundamentaly deceptive and******* flawed, pretty dumb for a country to be basd on this principle...so******* all the American soldiers who*******are fighting and terrorising Innocent civilians, I should say..then when they are killed or severely wounded in places like Iraq & Afghanistan*******fighting for 'freedom' they have died for nothing, no principle, for nothing..except some greedy owners of an oil corporation or some neo con idealogue and his world view. With all due respect, your time would be better spent conveying this sad reality of what is happening to your young men to Americans ....

Alah Knows Best

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 02:55 AM

Not to mock you but you sure have a strange reality.*******

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by Child of God

Not to mock you but you sure have a strange reality.******* 

Tell that to the families of dead and wounded American soldiers.

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 03:56 PM

I know several of those families personally*******and they know*******that their sons gave their lives for a good and just cause.******* The attempts by some to claim otherwise are wasted on those of us who know the truth.

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 04:13 PM

I found an article that is most interesting and of which has considerable bearing on one of the topics we've been discussing here.******* That of "freedom of speech" in Western countries.******* It seems that my original assessment of*******Muslims in the West using and abusing freedoms quaranteed here while demanding that others here be denied those same freedoms is once again proven true. 

C.A.I.R. demands that Talk-show host is fired for speaking against Islam
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45887

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 06:02 PM

Originally Posted by Child of God

I know several of those families personally*******and they know*******that their sons gave their lives for a good and just cause.******* The attempts by some to claim otherwise are wasted on those of us who know the truth. 

Really? Well if you know that it must be true [Sarcasm]

But we have been hearing an awful lot of American parents having lost their sons and asking their politicians why? Seems they are not privy to the special knowledge of why they died..or maybe they dont have their heads buried in the sand?

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 06:30 PM

No.. you've been hearing an awful lot about one (1)*******mother who has been given far more media hype than she should be getting.******* *LOL* 

And that's only because*******mainstream media in the U.S.******* and Muslims throughout the world are*******already gearing up for the 2006 elections and want so desperately to make President Bush look bad.*******

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 06:57 PM

Originally Posted by Child of God

No.. you've been hearing an awful lot about one (1)*******mother who has been given far more media hype than she should be getting.******* *LOL* 

And that's only because*******mainstream media in the U.S.******* and Muslims throughout the world are*******already gearing up for the 2006 elections and want so desperately to make President Bush look bad.******* 



Its more than one mother. Americans*******I know here have certainly changed there tune from 2 years ago.

I think******* your Governments have been very good at manipulating the media also. So fairs fair.

Anonymous

22nd August 2005, 08:54 PM

No, it's one mother by the name of Cindy Sheehan who claims to have a few other mothers tagging along with her. You might keep watching the news though, because there is soon to be a very BIG response in Crawford Texas to the liberal 'blame Bush/Republican/Conservative/Christians first" crowd down there and I have doubts that there will be any room left in Crawford Texas for the few followers Cindy actually has.

If there are any Americans over there who've "changed their tune" it's most likely because they were liberals to begin with, which is why they're over there and not over here, or they're afraid of being targeted for attacks. I don't worry about such things so I have NO FEAR of speaking the truth.

Anonymous

23rd August 2005, 07:41 PM

As muslim we are sick and tired of dictators who have no honor nor sham for the actions they take. We need leaders who are strong and rightous mutaqiin inshallah. I would much rather have a rightous leader who restricts my freedom of speech than a opressive dectator. If... this restiction is in accordance with the islamic law then there is bases for it. But the dictators do it out of their*******Hawaa(desire)..(all parties calling for political reform are terrorist and islamist*******is an example).....That is wrong and unjust.*******But then again a dictatorship is better than no governance this does mean we don't engage our government to change for the better...Because our main objective in this world to live by islaam so if our government does not respect our diin what is it doing governing us.. Anywhow this is a process that we must pursue with allah's help to pring about a good open government that is held accoutable from Cario to Dar-ulsalaam.

Peace...

Anonymous

24th August 2005, 04:54 PM

Ah, well, when you explain it that way it would seem that all these dictators and terrorists are doing e-x-a-c-t-l-y what Mohammad did, each growing and gaining strength in order to satisfy their own personal Hawaa.*******

Anonymous

24th August 2005, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Child of God

Ah, well, when you explain it that way it would seem that all these dictators and terrorists are doing e-x-a-c-t-l-y what Mohammad did, each growing and gaining strength in order to satisfy their own personal Hawaa.******* 

That is insulting the Prophet SAWS. Child of Satan should not be allowed to post hate and insults.

Anonymous

24th August 2005, 08:44 PM

Hey, you're the one who gave the description, not me. Besides, it's not like I made any sort of threat or fomented violence towards anyone. I just replied to your comments, and rather politely too I might add.

I shouldn't be allowed? WOW..that's pretty mean. Where's all that talk abut "freedom of speech" and such now?******* If I recall there have been more than a few verbal jabs made at my faith.******* Guess that freedom only runs one way for some people.

BTW: I am a child (as we all are) of the One True God Almighty, the God of Abraham, the creator of Heaven, earth and all mankind. Not allah, the god of Mohammadism/Islam.

Anonymous

24th August 2005, 09:27 PM

You dont have freedom of speech to insult the Messenger of God. Allah is the name of the God of Abraham and his descendant Muhammad in Arabic.

Anonymous

24th August 2005, 11:09 PM

Your allah is not the God of Abraham and I can prove it (not that it would make any difference to you).

As for this one sided freedom of speech, it does not exist. You can worship the man if you want, but you do not have the right or the authority to demand that everyone else in the world worship him too. So, if you and/or your friends here expect to be allowed to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and demote Jesus Christ to a bastard child then I can most certainly make whatever statments I want to make about Mohammad who was actually nothing more than a violent thief and rapist who envied Jesus Christ as much as Satan envied God.******* He proclaimed himself to be a "prophet" in order to gain the power he craved. He and his followers are doing the work of Satan exactly as the prophets of the Bible said they would thousands of years before Mohammad was born.

Now, since denying freedom of speech seems to be a trend with you folks, this will likely be where I get "cleansed" from the forum. So, I'll go ahead and brush the dirt off my sandals now. But, before I go, know this. I do not hate you, nor do I wish you harm. In fact I pray daily that God will speak to the hearts of Muslims the world over and open your eyes to the TRUTH of HIS WORD and the gift of salvation that Jesus provided.

Anonymous

24th August 2005, 11:40 PM

Originally Posted by Child of God

Your allah is not the God of Abraham and I can prove it (not that it would make any difference to you).

As for this one sided freedom of speech, it does not exist. You can worship the man if you want, but you do not have the right or the authority to demand that everyone else in the world worship him too. So, if you and/or your friends here expect to be allowed to blaspheme the Holy Spirit and demote Jesus Christ to a bastard child then I can most certainly make whatever statments I want to make about Mohammad who was actually nothing more than a violent thief and rapist who envied Jesus Christ as much as Satan envied God.******* He proclaimed himself to be a "prophet" in order to gain the power he craved. He and his followers are doing the work of Satan exactly as the prophets of the Bible said they would thousands of years before Mohammad was born.

Now, since denying freedom of speech seems to be a trend with you folks, this will likely be where I get "cleansed" from the forum. So, I'll go ahead and brush the dirt off my sandals now. But, before I go, know this. I do not hate you, nor do I wish you harm. In fact I pray daily that God will speak to the hearts of Muslims the world over and open your eyes to the TRUTH of HIS WORD and the gift of salvation that Jesus provided.


No you cant prove it, just like your fellow Christian fanatic Robert Morey couldnt prove it.

Yes, as was explained to your insolent self . there is no freedom of speech in Islam for insulting it. So what? Like you are going to give freedom of speech for Islam if you could help it, gimme a break.

Even Illiterate peasants in various parts of the world know that Muslims do not worship Muhammad, but God alone. Unlike, trinatarian christians who opposed the teaching of Jesus and started worshipping him and the elements of the trinity.

If you had bothered to thouroughly and objectively read up on Islam you would know that******* Allah and His Messenger assert that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, through the immaculate conception*******and therefore refutes what your freinds the Jews beleive about Jesus, i.e that he was a "bastard Child", astaghfirullah. What ignorance. How can you help support a state and a people of Jews, who as we explained to you are not even direct descendants of Abraham, unlike Arab Muslims who are through Ishmael when these Jews openly beleive that Jesus was born to Mary after they claim she had sex with a Roman soldier?!!? As a Muslim I find that disgusting. But I think it shows us pretty well how messed up Christians are in your part of the world. I know many Christians and Jews who I can get along with well , they do not find it necessary to insult Islam under the guise of freedom of speech unlike yourself.

If the Prophet craved power he could have easily got it without going through the pain, hunger and hurt he experienced for calling the Arabs back to the religon of Abraham. If you knowe anything of the life story of the Prophet (you should as you claim to quote Tabari!!) then you would know he was offered power and wealth in Makkah if he compromised, he didnt.

No one cares if you hate us or not. You are not being cleansed from the forums, perhaps you wanted to speak nonsense and leave before you were exposed for being ignorant.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 12:21 AM

Of course Mohammad didn't compromise, why would he compromise when he could just kill, kill, kill until everyone was dead or submitted to him?

Gee, why does that sound so familiar? Oh yeah..

Mohammad said: "You are commanded by allah to carry out jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam" Qur'an 47.4

And that's what Muslims have been doing for going on 1400 years. Trying to terrorize the world into submission to a cult devised by a power hungry false prophet.

Messenger of God? Absolutely NOT

Jesus Christ was the last messenger God sent for mankind. No other messenger was needed or sent. All claims as such have been by false prophets who, like satan dreamed of being godlike.

Satan cast a false revelation on the messenger of allah's tongue.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 12:41 AM

Muslim Killer Kill somewhere else you dropout.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 12:51 AM

Are you referring to me? I've never even threatened a Muslim, let alone killed one and I'm hardly a dropout. *******

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 01:06 AM

Muslim "guest", I have a question for you.******* You say you believe in God and so I assume you******* hope to go to heaven/paradise when your time here on earth is over.******* So, do you believe you are a good enough person to get there?*******

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Child of God

Of course Mohammad didn't compromise, why would he compromise when he could just kill, kill, kill until everyone was dead or submitted to him?

Gee, why does that sound so familiar? Oh yeah..

Mohammad said: "You are commanded by allah to carry out jihad against the unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam" Qur'an 47.4

And that's what Muslims have been doing for going on 1400 years. Trying to terrorize the world into submission to a cult devised by a power hungry false prophet.

Messenger of God? Absolutely NOT

Jesus Christ was the last messenger God sent for mankind. No other messenger was needed or sent. All claims as such have been by false prophets who, like satan dreamed of being godlike.

Satan cast a false revelation on the messenger of allah's tongue.



To my reply to your posts all you provide is mere conjecture and false accusations, and false assertions.I doubt we can have******* a meaningful discussion where that is all you do.

You are obviously totally ignorant of the History of Islam because you say what you do, I have no doubt you have just been presented certain passages of the Quran on whcich you are basing your nonsense.Spun by some christian fundamentalist.

If anything it is Christianity which spread through terror in the world or direct colonisation. The History of the spread of Islam was different and largely resulted in peaceful conversion. The Qura'n states : "There is no compulsion in religon." 2:256

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 01:48 PM

I agree that the writer has written this article very well. 

******* 

(1) Muslims do not believe in free speech. If they believe in free speech, they do not try to kill everyone that does not agree with them.******* (Salmon Rasdhi for example.) no we don't, because there is no such thing.... if you sware at me for being a muslim... that maybe your freedom of speech, but in an islamic society this will not be tolerated and i can launch a case against you...



however,, the same will also not be tolerated for a jew, or*******a christian,, becuase ahl-e-dhimma who pay the jizya have a right to protection..



but this is no different from the an secular laws, where abusive behaviour is can be taken to court.......



so there is no freedom of speech, yesterday, today or tomorrow,, it is a slogan used by western nations to propogate its own propoganda.... and its important to realise this....





******* 

(2) How many Muslim countries have free speech? 

lets not forget that these bunch of sham of democracies and dictatorships in middle east and rest of the muslim countries have very cosy relationships with the west because of oil (and lets not forget who put saddam in power) and there are regarded as hypocrites and betrayers by many but if even if you accept them as muslim... they are not islamic... and thus if you actually know the background of hizb ut tahrir, you will know that it is banned in many a muslim countries, despite its non-violence stance, because it calls for overthrow of these governments

******* 

and again,, there is no such thing as freedom of speech, never was and never will be.



(3) It is a fact that Muslims are asked to follow Imams to the letter and not allowed to think freely.

again your misconception, though some strange muslims*******may have handed you this bullet to shoot us with.. its not true,, (because muslims are humans and they make mistakes)... the imaam is not a*******clergy,, and there is no such thing as a clergy in islam... thus.. if the imaam says something like ribaa (interest and usury) is halaal*******or pork is halaal, it is not*******only a duty of a muslim to not follow him, but*******also a duty of a muslim to stop*******his slander, if not by hand, then at least by rediculing his opinions...



(4) Women in your religion has so few rights, may be even slaves have better rights 

no, again you have a misconception here.... just because women have extra obligations to cover themselves, you have made such a bold statement.... this is extremely naive of you

infact if you look in detail. women are exempt from a long list of obligations that men are excempt from.

for example:

they can wear silk clothing and gold jewellery whereas men can not...

they are not obliged to pay money towards their family, whereas men are (thus for a woman to work, it is a matter of choice, and for a man it is a matter of obligation)....

in some opinion men must pray at*******a mosque, in other opinions they are encouraged to do so,, women don't need to pray at a mosque....

And not only that but i too can make bold and strange comments like "islam frees a woman from the glances of men like you" thus it is another freedom exclusively for women, 

but rather than go in circles i have tried to give you complete picture....******* because there is no such thing as ultimate freedom,, every society has rules and regulations,,, 

the capitalist society of the modern world have rules and regulations that favour the rich******* and are often made by the rich,,,,and prey upon desire of human and thus western nations are suffering from crimes such as child abduction and pornography

and islam too has rules and regulations and does not give ultimate freedom but its rules are made by god to preserve humanity and for true progress of humanity... 

For instance in Saudi Arabia.******* There is very restricted freedom of speech there regarding the government and zero tolerance where any faith other than Islam is concerned. Pretty much the same goes for Egypt, Indonesia, Pakistan and several other countries.*******

*******

its very strange that some christians and non muslim chose to give these retarted backward, dumb, blind, (i am running out of words to describe how stupid these examples are) examples...

The saudi government loves non muslims,,, and so does every government of every so called muslim country (except the ousted taliban),,, why do you think there are attacks on the government in egypt and saudia... it is because they love no muslims more than their own subjects...

you might not see this, but everytime you drive a car you benefit from this love of theirs..

and thus the reprisal occurs from the poor muslim population of these countries every now and then and you make this strange comment as if the world has collapsed around you...

the foremost country in torturing hardline islamists is saudia arabia (and ints notorious jails, and that which was done in abu ghraib is done in saudia arab long time ago (some say, after they were setup for returning jihadists after defeating russia in afghanistan)

it is closely followed by egypt, syria, and iraq, (and with american help now, i think iraq is now on par with saudia arab in its torturing and maiming of its own countrymen simply because they disagree with the occupation... infact,,, they have gone beyound that and arrested 10 year old children and even shot point blank and in full view of the cameras, unarmed civillians)...

i agree with nasim chaudrey that some*******comments i have replied appear to be from those*******hold as much knowledge of the world as George Bush... but i would even less then that... even george bush evacuated the rich bin laden family after sept 11 to protect their economies.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 01:55 PM

infact if you look in detail. women are exempt from a long list of obligations that men are excempt from. that men are not exempt from....

correction...

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 02:21 PM

The list of deceptions, half truths and outright lies is so long in the above three posts, I couldn't even begin to know where to start. So, I'll start at the top;

To Guest 1. I agree, we probably will not have a meaningful discussion, since you do not recognize facts and quotes as facts and quotes. I say what I do because I am very knowledgable of the history of Islam and haven't fallen for the "religion of peace" propaganda. Furthermore, claiming I'm ignorant only proves your own ignorance, you haven't even been able to answer most of my questions, you just deny them and hope I don't call you on it.

I provide numerous quotes from your own holy book and you make silly claims that I've taken things out of context. Now, I challenge you to PROVE that those quotes do not mean what they say. Hint: Just saying they don't mean what they say doesn't prove anything and it really makes you look bad!

Oh, and that single little quote you provided.. it's in reference to Judaism and Christianity, not Islam.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 02:59 PM

Guest 2 - In nearly all of those instances regarding women, if you remove the words "not required" and replace them with "not permitted" you'll be much more accurate.

If the only response you have to the abuses I listed against non-Muslims is to claim they are "stupid examples" then you may as well have not responded at all because claiming it isn't so does NOT change the fact that those Muslim governments commit horrendous crimes against non-Muslims and have either "cleansed" or are "cleansing" by one means or another all other faiths out of their countries.

Furthermore, to claim that the Saudi Government is harsh on hardline anything is a joke. The Saudi government IS the starting point for hardline. And any attempt they make to give the appearance to the world that they are "cracking down" on terrorists is an even bigger joke. Saudi Arabia produces more hardline, radical, extremist, terrorists than any other country out there.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 04:50 PM

curious... where i said, not required... they are not required

if you actually read up,, you will see women have taken up posts of teaching and nurses extensively in the past******* (as in the west)... and infact, taliban running a war torn country naturally wanted doctors so they adopted a law (thought not islamic,, but i never said taliban was a pure islamic state, neither they themselves claimed that,, but they were by consensus the closest to it)...to make women study medicine......

not withstanding that, women have taken active roles in military (a non-traditional role, which if it the situation is as its in the west, they expect according to many surveys to sacrifice their dignity to get in)...

Again you have responded a stupid naive examples... their are few minor examples that are often taken out as against non-muslims in saudia government however this is because of fight for control between america and britain, though from the outset they are buddy buddy.. but both have their own interests and their is much infighting between them, and as saudia arab being a predominantly american backed,, every now and then a british is caught and punished for bootlegging,, however, the biggest culprits of bootlegging happen to be the royal family members themselves...

saudi and all other governments are torn between their loyalties to the western masters and on the other giving enough lip service to keep locals happy... if you had done your research, you would know the al-qaida has launched a major offensive few years ago and their was also the al-rass expedition in saudia..

not forgetting the massacre of the supporters of imaam johaiman (rahimallah) in holy places (oh but ofcourse i do not expect you to the history of this and many authentic news of blatant torture and murdur that is routinely carried out in these sham of democracies with full backing of their american masters).. the hypocracy of americans was never so clear as condoleeza rice made a tour of the gulf region i believe last, where she blasted some regimes in democracy while she praised the regime of hosni mubarak (egypt) and even excusing the egyption government of undemocratic practices (by saying things like change is slow process etc etc) it was almost that for time that she was not an american representative but an egyption representative to the western media....

i know an algerian citizen, and he told me... "if only my name was John Smith, then i can work in an algerian oil company",, the same is true for Abu Dhabi (and infact abu dhabi is most true for all arab places), saudia arab, it is even the same for pakistan as i know people who have been favoured over others in this situation... infact my lecturer worked in saudia, and was a drunkard there and here, and is not shy about talking about this....******* i know you live this self created world of "they hate us, and we hate them, and they are all the same",, but let me tell you something,, that Bush is more clever then you, he knows the saudi family very well and he knows exactly what he can get them to do and what he can not get them to do....

*******

the fact that they are impotent in clamping down on islamist is not something that should be viewed strangely,, how can the king kill all his subjects??? just as the most the powerful army cannot stop the resistance in iraq, similarly the islamic movement in saudia arab is unstoppable (inshallah)....even if you were the head, nothing could stop the islamic movement, even if you threatened to strike at ka'aba,******* (actually, espacially if you threatened to strike at ka'aba, your own secular servant will decapitate you, because if you did that you failed to understand the nature of your subjects, this is not to do with the ability or inability but simply the nature of people and the reality of this world)

*******

and yes their are well known notorious prisons

*******

and yes there are notorious prisons in egypt (read zainab al ghazzali's book "return of the pharoah")

i could go on forever and ever however i know that your version of "facts" come from a narrow minded fascists websites and organisations.******* I suggest you take a deep look into these facts and figures..

but i don't have time to sift throug the news archives, so i am afraid that the burdon of proof lies on you... you are not worth it, because you can not do your own work

your the one making the claims.

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 04:52 PM

this post contains so many mistakes.. but they are not worth correcting,, cos i figure your brain needs the exercise .. curious :p

Anonymous

25th August 2005, 05:42 PM

Do you know what a crock is?

You never prove anything, you never provide evidence, you just make claim after claim and deny everything that is put right in front of you until you're blue in the face and then claim you've outwitted the other person. It's as though you think if you dance around the subject long enough without admitting anything then the other person will just get tired and go away. I realize this is how you are taught to handle such discussions, but good grief.. post after post from you is like a pot full of crap. That's what a crock is and it is anything but convincing. .

I have studied the Middle East, its culture(s), traditions and cults for more than 30 years and the argumentative tactics of Muslims have never changed one iota. No matter where you people migrate to you have just never figured out how to have productive dialogue. You live in a 7th century world conceived in the mind of a violent, oppressive mad man and you've embraced his ideas for yourselves with hopes of attaining the same world domination he wanted. You demand that everyone else in the world join you in your misery and violent delusions and claim that anyone who doesn't is oppressing you or that they're narrow minded fascists. Well, you can call us what you want and lie all you want, and deny all you want, but God even gave the first man and woman the free will to choose their path, so you people have a lot of nerve demanding more authority than God demanded for himself. ******* I've shown you the quotes right out of your so-called holy book that prove your allah is not one and the same as the God of Abraham and you have STILL not done anything but deny they say what they do in fact say.

So as they say here in the west, "either *hit or get off the pot". If you cannot prove what you're claiming then give it up.

Anonymous

26th August 2005, 12:39 AM

Oh wise man dont blind us with youre christian knowledge,LOL

Anonymous

26th August 2005, 02:24 AM

oh dear child...

if you actually visit saudi arab you will see places exclusively for women... whole shopping malls where men are forbidden...

but i said again and again, the burdon of proof is on you since you have started with these claims... i am just rejected them... if you had proof, i would have brought proof to reject those so called proofs you bring, but if you don't want to bother with your research then why should i waste my time... but nevertheless i still went out of my way and provided you with one proof but i will not mention it again, because it shows you have not read my post properly. and if you want to read up on that one proof,,, you can do so... but i can bring a long list of them if you can not even find that one proof i posted in my post what is the point of a small list???

i know its lengthy and and your mind is weary and it is really asking too much of you and maybe i was being too hopeful from you... but alas theres nothing else to do otherwise...if your not reading the posts properly.. or following a proof,,, or as any normal person who makes a claim such as yourself, bring your own proof,, what is the whole point of you being here..

oh yes i forgot,,, you don't really have a life outside the islamic awakening (as-sahwa) website... yes this can be harmful to your health... and yes it is just mind blowing.... first step to redemption is admission,, so feel free to admit it...

Anonymous

26th August 2005, 12:28 PM

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2005/08/23/iraq_gallery/iraq.html

Anonymous

26th August 2005, 03:13 PM

As I said, you have offered NO proof; I had a feeling you wouldn't be able to. Just a lot more denials backed up with more denials and reinforced with... even more denials.

An article by a Saudi woman -
http://www.geocities.com/realitywithbite/saudiwomen.htm

A Report From Amnesty International -
http://www.amnestyusa.org/regions/middleeast/document.do?id=D2C1FC0DC59EC51C802569610071BFEC

Does the name Rania al-Baz mean anything to you? I wonder if she's still alive after going on television last year from her hospital bed in Saudi Arabia to plead with the saudi government to reform their laws protecting wives from spousal abuse.

http://www.hrw.org/wr2k5/pdf/saudia.pdf

Oops.. can't talk about that can we? After all, any good muslim man knows he has the right to beat his (wives) into submission. And who's going to stop him since according to Islamic Law the lowly woman has to have her husband's permission to go report him to the police or go to the hospital and even if he gives it, those wonderful sharia courts don't consider a woman's testimony worth hearing.

But, here's the worst of all evidences of abuse of females in Saudi Arabia

March 2002: The "Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice physically beat people back for trying save the lives of 15 young girls in a blazing inferno at a school in Mecca. The reason they condemned these young girls to death was that they weren't wearing the headscarves and abayas required by Islamic Law (sharia) so they were not allowed out into public view and were therefore forced back in the inferno to die.

http://www.news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

Now, bring on your "denials". I wouldn't want you to try to prove that your Qur'an doesn't support these atrocities since the fact is, we both know it is the basis for these atrocities.

Anonymous

26th August 2005, 05:58 PM

Like it or hate it ........There is only one God and that is the creator of our father Adam the first man on the earth. 

The ultimate end is Heven or hell. In the mean while we have a chance to think about our daily actions.....for only our deeds can ruin us....

Peace....

Anonymous

26th August 2005, 06:38 PM

Don't tell me THAT'S your answer?

gag order

27th August 2005, 12:56 AM

so it comes to this: the actions of the saudi government determine wether or not the*******quran is the word of god? 



i wonder if the actions of*******the then nazi white christian regime*******determine wether or nor the bible is the word of god?



all i see is the clutching at straws in a desperation to disprove the quran by anecdotes and behaviours*******- you have a made a poor case! 



hardly anyone believes the saudi regime is an "islamic state" so how come this regime is used as an example of the application of islam? if it was a true islamic state it would build a mosque so big it would be right next door to everyone! 



I don't know what makes you christians so dumb but it really works. its your stupid religion that causes your own kind to become athiest or buddhist or gay



i said it before*******kafirs come here not looking for an answer or to engage in "diologue" but to*******take the pi... well you can have it and drink it! *******



what they really really want is more acts of terror they need it they love it and im sure that an outfit like alqaida is happy to oblige! these jew-worshippers*******fully support the invasion of muslim lands but then bemoan the quran where it instructs to fight back!*******they pretend to be pacifist but in reality they really want some! 



the muslims have tried to explain jihad verses to you in the proper context in which*******they were*******meant but*******"seeing you see not and hearing you hear not" so i have to be blunt 



the quran instructs*******muslims to kill - yes offcourse it does you know it does. you may have heard of a number of groups called "mujahideen" who have taken it upon themselves to fulfill this command they*******are probably killing someone right now.*******



it may not have occurred to you but when wars are declared people actually fight in them and this is when the jihad verses apply. whether its offensive or defensive matters not when the two sides clash. you have "rules of engagement" and so do the mujahideen and these rules are the ones which say "kill kill kill" so that you can "die die die" and go to "hell hell hell"******* LOL!!!****************************

the retarded child said: "No matter where you people migrate to you have just never figured out how to have productive dialogue."******* and thats our saving grace it prevents jew worshippers*******like you from converting us into jewlovers worshipping some jew*******hanging on a cross who is not jesus by the way but some other dude who is as dead as your religion. 



I WARNED ALL OF YOU MUSLIMS NOT TO ENTERTAIN THEM. and look where its got to.

**************

Anonymous

27th August 2005, 03:41 AM

gag order - I know it's a challenge for you, but do try to keep up with the conversation.

Anonymous

28th August 2005, 02:23 AM

child i know its a challenge for you, but bring proof prior to a claim..

Anonymous

28th August 2005, 02:24 AM

i mean child,, for all we know,, he did keep up with the conversation... tsk tsk... no proof once again from a child... which is not an adequate description,, maybe the name should be "baby" cos even child occasionally questions or states something by******* pointing at or provinding some proof..

Anonymous

28th August 2005, 02:56 AM

The evidence is there, but as usual you refuse to acknowledge it.******* That helps with living in that fantasy world you live in.*******

Anonymous

1st September 2005, 09:41 PM

America....

Bush seems to found of the Saudi Regime, ask Michael moor. Anyhow islaam does not teach that women should not be allowed to drive for example. Women Saudi Arabia are more educated then say women in Yeman, and muslim women in Malaysia can’t be compare to those in other areas of the muslim world. So just please America don’t just believe in some anti-muslim writers who just want to highlight negative aspect of the muslim world. No society can claim to be problem free, but there has be process for the better, And inshallah that will happen in the Muslim world. 

When these 3 steps are followed 

1) First by having strong leadership that are accountable to the people 

2) Second by fight corruption 

3) And last by up holding human right 

Question for you America have ever talk to a Muslim scholar about atrocities you listed. I can list Rev. John P. Lyons, who was suspended as a priest in May for allegedly sexually abusing two altar boys in Brighton I can go on and talk about or those who kill innocent people like Eric Rudolph a Pro-Life Terrorist thinking they are doing gods work, this includes those who kill innocent people in the name of any religion Islam or Christianity or Judaism. 

Anyhow Rev.John Lyon or Eric Rudolph in my image do no represent Christianity in their action, the image of Christianity that I respect is the one that Jesus came with and preached 2000 years ago. And I respect it not because of America but because the Quran tells us about the people of the book….Christians and Jews. 

peace

Anonymous

2nd September 2005, 09:18 PM

Bush seems to like Saudi Regime u mean...

Anonymous

17th September 2005, 04:18 AM

Child of God

Why is it that Jesus Christ is always portrayed as a blonde haired blue eyed man? Where did he come from? Bethlehem in Palestine. Which makes him an arab. And arabs are not blonde-haired and blue-eyed. Secondly, why isn't there a copy of the bible in Aramaic? Jesus Christ, his Greek -given name, or should I say, Esa, his true aramaic name, never spoke in English? So how the hell do you explain the *******bible*******existing in every language*******except the language spoken by your 'Son of God?' Thridly, Christo-fascist, why is it that you feel the need to vilify Islam and our Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to make your point? Are you that pathetically insecure and in constant suffering of an inferior complex?

Anonymous

17th September 2005, 02:41 PM

**************The Arabs and binu <country-region w:st="on">Israel</country-region> (children <place w:st="on"><country-region w:st="on">Israel</country-region></place>) share a common father, no matter how much enmity there is between them. Now Jesus is from linage of Jacob. And prophet Mohamed is of the linage of ishmail the elder son of Abraham our father. Anyhow linage is irrelevant truly, for many prophets were sent from other nation other than of the children of Abraham. The important thing is to know that all those whom followed prophet Mussa in his time are believers; all those whom followed prophet (Issa) Jesus in his live are like wise believer and this goes for all prophets some whom we know by name some that we don’t but there were many. Now the prophet-hood message was conclude in prophet Mohammed who happen to be an Arab, allahs choice. Some people might not like it, but it allah who choose him. He is last of the prophets and the best of creation and he will be the Sayid (honoured one) of mankind on the day of judgment. Now since he is last of the prophet his message is continues it is for those who lived with him when he was in Makkah and Madina and to all people until the day of judgment. *******

Anonymous

20th September 2005, 12:13 PM

To Guest

Salaam brother. I like your responses to that 'child of God'. Christians suffer from the crusader mentality and are no different than those who sacked Jerusalem in 1099. They are wolves in sheep clothing. 'Child of God' you listening? Enlighten me with your ideology. You can't becuase you are filled with nothing but an innate hatred for all things muslim. Christo=fascist is your true name.

Anonymous

1st October 2005, 08:55 PM

And where was this voice during Hussein's violent rule?******* The attack on the World Trade Center? The violence in Africa?**************History has taught us to be weary of those who declare violence as the will of God.



Originally Posted by Nasim Chowdhury

May Allaah reward the writer.

The silence of the Muslims (in general) is as shocking on this matter as it is deafening.

As the author so lucidly stated, Hizb Ut-Tahreer are a political organisation who are avowedly non-violent and who operate well within the law. Therefore, the only possible reason for banning them is that the Mandarins in Whitehall
cannot stomach their views, regardless of the fact that they have the 'democratic right' to have them. If we Muslims remain silent now, I am sure that the government will begin banning other groups, organisations, and institutions of its arbritary choosing.******* 

As for the Muslims, it is sad to see that personal grudges and old unsettled scores have taken precendence to justice and solidarity.

As the author stated, few of us agree with HT's methodology or ideas; but since when did justice entail standing up only for those whom one agrees with wholeheartedly?

Those Muslims who are currently rubbing their hands with glee whilst sucking up to the powers that be, are, in reality, signing their own future death warrants, to be executed by those very powers. And their own 'deaths' will be far more disgraceful and humuliating than those that preceded them - that is what history has taught us.

Nasim Chowdhury

Anonymous

1st October 2005, 09:00 PM

Woman in The Kingdom are forbidden to drive and to violate this law is punishable by death (at least up to 1990).******* It is true violence is in all things, but it should not be applauded.******* All who violate the sancity of life should be held accountable, regardless of religions, sex, ethnicity, etc.



Originally Posted by Anonymous

America....

Bush seems to found of the Saudi Regime, ask Michael moor. Anyhow islaam does not teach that women should not be allowed to drive for example. Women Saudi Arabia are more educated then say women in Yeman, and muslim women in Malaysia can’t be compare to those in other areas of the muslim world. So just please America don’t just believe in some anti-muslim writers who just want to highlight negative aspect of the muslim world. No society can claim to be problem free, but there has be process for the better, And inshallah that will happen in the Muslim world. 

When these 3 steps are followed 

1) First by having strong leadership that are accountable to the people 

2) Second by fight corruption 

3) And last by up holding human right 

Question for you America have ever talk to a Muslim scholar about atrocities you listed. I can list Rev. John P. Lyons, who was suspended as a priest in May for allegedly sexually abusing two altar boys in Brighton I can go on and talk about or those who kill innocent people like Eric Rudolph a Pro-Life Terrorist thinking they are doing gods work, this includes those who kill innocent people in the name of any religion Islam or Christianity or Judaism. 

Anyhow Rev.John Lyon or Eric Rudolph in my image do no represent Christianity in their action, the image of Christianity that I respect is the one that Jesus came with and preached 2000 years ago. And I respect it not because of America but because the Quran tells us about the people of the book….Christians and Jews. 

peace

Anonymous

1st October 2005, 09:04 PM

Those who know little of Esa should not speak of Him.******* Strive to know Him through the eyes of more than one source.******* Just as those who assume to know Islam speak from ignorance.******* *******



Originally Posted by asim

Child of God

Why is it that Jesus Christ is always portrayed as a blonde haired blue eyed man? Where did he come from? Bethlehem in Palestine. Which makes him an arab. And arabs are not blonde-haired and blue-eyed. Secondly, why isn't there a copy of the bible in Aramaic? Jesus Christ, his Greek -given name, or should I say, Esa, his true aramaic name, never spoke in English? So how the hell do you explain the *******bible*******existing in every language*******except the language spoken by your 'Son of God?' Thridly, Christo-fascist, why is it that you feel the need to vilify Islam and our Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) to make your point? Are you that pathetically insecure and in constant suffering of an inferior complex?

Anonymous

2nd October 2005, 12:50 PM

To the person who refers to himself as 'The Truth'.

'Those who know little about the World Trade Centre and September 11 2001 and Saddam Husseiyn should not speak about it. Strive to know*******who was behind *******September 11 2001 through the eyes of more than one source. Just as those Christians who assume to know Christianity speak of absolute ignorance.