Abuz Zubair
28th April 2004, 02:25 PM
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IslamicAwakening.Com Discussion Board: Islaam in general: Why sheikh bin baz??????????????????
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By Saghar on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 01:44 pm: Edit
Salam,
I read a new thing today that bin baz called usama bin ladin kharijee.I am going to laugh.Too much support of saudi regime. I don`t know how people called sheikh?
Waslam
By Umm (Umm) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 03:58 pm: Edit
Salaam,
I will not accept Shaykh ibn Baz (RM)'s words IF he said this about Shaykh Usamah. However, neither will I sit her and let u revile a Shaykh, especially one who is dead and cannot defend himself. And I would like to see proof of this so-called fatwa, and not from SP's "trust-worthy" translators either.
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:13 pm: Edit
I think brother saqhar must have seen the phmaplet that SP released some time ago calles terrorism hijacking suicide bombing and shaikh bin bazz's advise to usmah bin laden. in the book they quote the shaikh saying usmah is a khawridge. in additon to this the shaikh is quoted as saing that those youth who attacked the americans in saudi in riyadh are also khawridge. but these youth were praised very highly by al qaidh in the video the state of the ummah released by al qaidah.
in one of the interviews shaikh usamah says that teh saudi regime used bin bazz to let the saudis in to the land of revelation and to controle the masses.
no doupt shaikh bin bazz had a lot of knowledge but his silence and stance regarding the apostate saudi regime has casued mis-trust amongst a lot of people. i have read his fatawa in which he praised teh saudi regime for calling in the american to figh iraq and i have to say it is full of rubbish. in shallah i will post teh fatawa soon.
all i can say is a muslim we have to practice al wala wal bara even if it be against our own family.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:16 pm: Edit
slaams
if what SP have posted on their website and the phamplet they have released is false then i thing the brothers and sister should refute it and state what the truth is. they should defend the shaikh if lies are saiud about him.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:20 pm: Edit
* What is the policy that should be adopted by the Islamic movement towards the scholars who defend -intentionally or unintentio-nally- the likes of the Saud regime?
It is not a concealed fact that the police states in the Arab world rely on some foundations in order to protect themselves.. Amongst these organisations is the security organisation as they spend generously on it, and its foremost mission is to spy on its own people in order to protect the person of the ruler, even if this was at the expense of the rights of the people and their security, as also the military sector, which is prepared to strike the people if they wish to reject the suppression and to remove oppression and establish truth.
The media sector is in the same category as it strives to beatify the persons of the leaders, to drowse the community, and to fulfil the plans of the enemies through keeping the people occupied with the minor matters, and to stir their emotions and desires until corruption becomes widespread amongst the believers.
There is also another organisation which takes priority with the leaders in the Arab world, and is used to take the people astray, and to open the door wide for the security factions to fulfil their aforementioned objectives.. This is the organisation of the scholars of the authorities, as the role of this organisation is the most dangerous of roles in the entirety of the Arabic countries.
History is the best witness to this.
At the same time that some of the leaders are engaging in the major Kufr, which takes them out of the fold of Islam in broad daylight and in front of all the people, you would find a Fatwa from their religious organisation.. In particular, the role of the religious organisation in the country of the two sacred mosques is of the most ominous of roles, this is overlooking whether it fulfilled this role intentionally or unintentionally, the harm which eventuated from their efforts is no different from the role of the most ardent enemies of the nation.
The regime in the land of the two sacred mosques has given a very high priority to this organisation, and has been able to enlarge its position in the estimation of the people until it made of it an idol to be worshipped aside from God amongst some of the common people, and without the will of the members of this organisation.
However, there continues to be in the land of the two sacred mosques - with gratitude to Allah - a good number of honest scholars and students who work according to their teachings, and those who have taken visible and daring stances against the Kufr activities which the regime is working.
The regime has strived to keep these scholars in the shadows and then removed them, one way or another, from being effective elements in the lives of the people in the community. At the forefront of these scholars was the Sheikh Abdullah Bin Hamid - May Allah bless his soul - who was the Mufti in the Arabian peninsula, and who headed the supreme council of judges. However, the regime constrained him and tightened their grip on him until he offered his resignation.. He has many famous writings in response to the unacceptable laws which the government had introduced instead of the Law of Allah, one of these is a treatise dealing with the law of work and workers which deals with many of the introduced laws which contradict the law of Allah (s.w.t.).
At the same time, they promoted some of the scholars who were far below Sheikh Ibn Hamid - may Allah bless his soul - those who have been known to be weak and soft, so they put them forward in a cunning plan which began more than twenty years ago.. During the preceding two decades, the regime enlarged the role of Bin Baz (Grand Mufti) because of what it knows of his weakness and flexibility and the ease of influencing him with the various means which the interior ministry practices through providing him with false information. So, a generation of youth were raised believing that the most pious and knowledgeable of people is Bin Baz as a result of the media promotion through a well studied policy which had been progressed over twenty years.
After this, the government began to strike with the cane of Bin Baz, every corrective programme which the honest scholars put forward, further, it extracted a Fatwa to hand over Palestine to the Jews, and before this, to permit entry into the country of the two sacred mosques to the modern day crusaders under the rule of necessity, then it relied on a letter from him to the minister for internal affairs and placed the honest scholars in the gaols.
The confidence of the people and the youth in Bin Baz was therefore shaken, however the price was very high, whilst the confidence of the people in the working scholars, particularly those in the prisons had been increased.
The policy of the Organisation for Advice and Rectification towards these scholars is the continuation of providing advise to them openly and secretly (as there is no person above the law, and we are not immune) and particularly in the matters where they gave public rulings, and to bring the rulings of the scholars who respond to their rulings, in order to bring awareness to the people as to the correct ruling with respect to these matters, and not to forestall the rectification programme so that the scholars are made aware, as the pressure which is applied against them is very great.
Also the promotion of the honest scholars and their mention with what they deserve in front of the people so that the confidence of the people would greatly shift in support to them.
* How do you evaluate the Saud regime's foreign policy towards the Muslim world in the past years?
The external policy of the Saud regime towards Islamic issues is a policy which is tied to the British outlook from the establishment of Saudi Arabia until 1364 ah (1945 ac), then it became attached to the American outlook after America gained prominence as a major power in the world after the Second World War.
It is well known that the policies of these two countries bear the greatest enmity towards the Islamic world.
To be taken out of this category is the final phase of the rule of King Faisal, as there was a clear interest with the Muslim issues, in particular al Quds and Palestine.
However, the regime does not cease to cry in the open over the matters effecting the Muslims without making any serious effort to serve the interests of the Muslim community apart from small efforts in order to confuse people and throw some dust into their eyes.
* The confrontation between the Islamic movement and the apostate Saud regime recorded a historical turning point following the latest attacks against the American occupiers targets. How did these attacks reflect on the internal front, and how did they affect the Saudi-American relations?
There were important effects to the two explosions in Riyadh on both the internal and external aspects. Most important amongst these is the awareness of the people to the significance of the American occupation of the country of the two sacred mosques, and that the original decrees of the regime are a reflection of the wishes of the American occupiers. So the people became aware that their main problems were caused by the American occupiers and their puppets in the Saudi regime, whether this was from the religious aspect or from other aspects in their everyday lives. The sympathies of the people with the working scholars who had been imprisoned also increased as has their understanding of their advises and guidance which led the people to support the general rectification movement which is led by the scholars and the callers to Islam. This movement - with the bounty of Allah - is increasing in power and in supporters day after day at the expense of the regime. The sympathy with these missions at the civil and military levels were great, as also the sympathies of the Muslim world with the struggle against the Americans.
As for the relationship between the regime and the American occupiers, these operations have embarrassed both sides and have led to the exchange of accusations between them. So we have the Americans stating that the causes of the explosions are the bad policies of the regime and the corruption of members of the ruling family, and the regime is accusing the Americans of exceeding their authority by taking advantage of the regime and forcing it to enter into military and civil contracts which are beyond its means, which led to great economic slide which has effected the people. In addition to this is the behaviour of the Americans with crudeness and arrogance with the Saudi army and their general behaviour with citizens, and the privileges which the Americans enjoy in distinction from the Saudi forces.
These missions also paved the way for the raising of the voices of opposition against the American occupation from within the ruling family and the armed forces; in fact we can say that the remaining Gulf countries have been effected to the same degree, and that the voices of opposition to the American occupation have begun to be heard at the level of the ruling families and the governments of the Cooperative Council of Gulf countries. The differences in outlooks between the Americans and the Gulf states has appeared for the first time since the second Gulf war. This was during the conference of the ministers of external affairs of the countries of the cooperative council of Gulf states which was held in Riyadh to look into the American missile aggression against Iraq. These differences are nothing more than a sign of the strain which has eventuated in the relationship between America and the countries of the region in the footsteps of the Jihad missions against the Americans in Riyadh and as a result of the fear of these regimes that their own lands might witness similar Jihad missions.
* It was observed that the American and Saudi officials tried to link the latest operations to some foreign countries. What is behind these attempts?
A result of the increasing reaction of the people against the American occupation and the great sympathy with the Jihad missions against the Americans is the eagerness of the Americans and the Saudis to propagate false information to disperse these sympathies. This can be witnessed in their statements that some of the countries in the region were behind the Jihad missions inside the country of the two sacred mosques, however the people are aware that this is an internal Islamic movement against the American occupation which is revealing itself in the most clear picture after the killing of the four champions who performed the Riyadh operation, the ones concerning whom, we ask Allah to accept amongst the martyrs.
It has become routine policy for countries upon facing an internal calamity is to lay the responsibility on an external country. Before the puppetry of the Arabic countries to America became plainly obvious, the security sections never hesitated to accuse any rectifying Islamic movement to be a puppet to America and Israel.
* What are the regime's choices with regards to the Muslim uprising, and what are your expectations for the future?
There are several choices for the regime, one of these is reconciliation with all the different sections of the public, by releasing the scholars, and offering essential changes, the most important of these is to bring back Islamic law, and to practise real Shura (consultative government). The regime may resort to this choice after finding itself in the position of a morsel of food for the Americans to take, after the enmity has been stirred with their people. These people today feel that the Americans have exceeded their limits both politically and economically, the regime now knows that the public are aware that their sovereignty is shared. This was particularly evident in the recent period through the American press statements which give justification to the American occupation which only exists to rob the wealth of the people to the benefit of the Americans. This option is dependent on the agreement of the people who hold the solution and have the ability to effect change, at the forefront of these would be the honest scholars.
As for the other option, this is a very difficult and dangerous one for the regime, and this involves an escalation in the confrontation between the Muslim people and the American occupiers and to confront the economic haemorrhage. Its most important goal would be to change the current regime, with the permission of Allah.
* As a part of the furious international campaign against the Jihad movement, you were personally the target of a prejudiced attack, which accused you of financing terrorism and being part of an international terrorist organisation. What do you have to say about that?
After the end of the cold war, America escalated its campaign against the Muslim world in its entirety, aiming to get rid of Islam itself. Its main focus in this was to target the scholars and the reformers who were enlightening the people to the dangers of the Judao - American alliance, and they also targeted the Mujahideen. We also have been hit with some of the traces of this campaign as we were accused of funding terrorism, and being members of an international terrorist organisation. Their aims in making these allegations were to place psychological pressure on the Mujahideen and their supporters so that they would forsake the obligation of Jihad and the resistance of oppression and American Israeli occupation of Islamic sacred lands. However, our gratitude to Allah, their campaign was not successful, as terrorising the American occupiers is a religious and logical obligation. We are grateful to Allah Most Exalted in that He has facilitated Jihad in His cause for us, against the Americo - Israeli attacks on the Islamic sanctities.
As for their accusations of terrorising the innocent, the children, and the women, these are in the category "accusing others with their own affliction in order to fool the masses". The evidence overwhelmingly shows America and Israel killing the weaker men, women, and children in the Muslim world and elsewhere. A few examples of this are seen in the recent Qana massacre in Lebanon, and the death of more than six hundred thousands (600,000) Iraqi children because of the shortage of food and medicine which resulted from the boycotts and sanctions against the Muslim Iraqi people, also their withholding of arms from the Muslims of Bosnian Hercegovina leaving them prey to the Christian Serbians who massacred and raped in a manner not seen in contemporary history. Not to forget the dropping of the H bombs on cities with their entire populations of children, elderly, and women, on purpose, and in a premeditated manner as was the case with Hiroshima and Nakazagki. Then, killing hundreds of thousands of children in Iraq, and whose numbers (of dead) continue to increase as a result of the sanctions. Despite the continuing American occupation of the country of the two sacred mosques, America continues to claim that it is upholding the banner of freedom and humanity, whilst these deeds which they did, you would find that the most ravenous of animals would not descend to.
As for what America accuses us of, of killing the innocent people, they have not been able to offer any evidence, despite the magnitude of their expenditure on their intelligence services. Despite what our history is witnessing in the Afghan phase of the Jihad. This was also unstained with any blood of innocent people, despite the inhuman Russian campaign against our women, our children, and our brothers in Afghanistan... Similar is our history with respect to our differences with the Saudi regime, all that has been proved is our joy at the killing of the American Soldiers in Riyadh and Khobar, and these are the sentiments of every Muslim. Our encouragement and call to Muslims to enter Jihad against the American and the Israeli occupiers are actions which we are engaging in as religious obligations. Allah Most High has commanded us in many verses of the Qur`an to fight in His path and to urge the believers to do so. Of these are His words: "Fight in the path of Allah, you are not charged with the responsibility except for yourself, and urge the believers, lest Allah restrain the might of the rejectors, and Allah is stronger in might and stronger in inflicting punishment." and His words: "And what is it with you that you do not fight in the path of Allah, whilst the weak amongst the men, and the women, and the children who say: our Lord take us out of this town the people of which are oppressive, and make for us from You a protecting friend and make for us from You a succourer", and His words: "So if you meet those who reject, then strike the necks..." We have given an oath to Allah to continue in the struggle as long as we have blood pumping in our veins or a seeing eye, and we beg of Allah to accept and to grant a good ending for us and for all the Muslims.
* Some media sources mentioned that the Afghan government demanded that you leave the country. How true is this?
The Afghan government has not asked us to leave the country... All gratitude to Allah, our relationship with our brother Mujahideen in Afghanistan is a deep and broad relationship where blood and sweat have mixed as have the links over long years of struggle against the Soviets, it is not a passing relationship, nor one based on personal interests.
They are committed to support the religion approved by Allah, and that country remains as the Muslims have known it, a strong fort for Islam, and its people are amongst the most protective of the religion approved by Allah, and the keenest to fulfil His laws and to establish an Islamic state.
That passing phase of infighting has saddened us as it has saddened all the Muslims, however, we wish to indicate that the picture of events as painted by the international press is grossly distorted, and that this infighting is much smaller and less fierce than what Muslims on the outside may imagine, and that most of the country is living a normal peaceful life; apart from some petty crimes here and there as some elements attempt to create corruption under cover of the disputes amongst some of the groups. We our hoping that Afghanistan would regain very soon - God willing - its Islamic position which would befit its history of Jihad.
* What is the responsibility of the Muslim populations towards the international campaign against Islam?
What bears no doubt in this fierce Judao - Christian campaign against the Muslim world, the likes of which has never been seen before, is that the Muslims must prepare all the possible might to repel the enemy on the military, economic, missionary, and all other areas. It is crucial for us to be patient and to cooperate in righteousness and piety and to raise awareness to the fact that the highest priority, after faith is to repel the incursive enemy which corrupts the religion and the world, and nothing deserves a higher priority after faith, as the scholars have declared, for this cause, it is crucial to overlook many of the issues of bickering in order to unite our ranks so that we can repel the greater Kufr.
All must move giving life to the words of the Most High: "Indeed this, your community, is one community, and I am your Lord, so worship me" and that they should not be like those whom Allah has described with His words: "Indeed those who have divided their religion and became schisms, you are not of them in any way." It is essential to volunteer and not to bicker, and the Muslim should not belittle righteousness in any way, the messenger ( peace and blessings upon him) said: "Whoever believes in Allah and the last day must speak good or not speak at all." and they must heed the words of the messenger (peace and blessings upon him) when they move: "Inform and do not repel, and make it easy and do not make it difficult.".. And we ask Allah to give this community the guidance to exalt the people who obey Him and humiliate those who disobey Him, and to give us a rule where decency is commanded and evil is forbidden. O Allah bless Mohammad, Your servant and messenger, and his family, and companions, and give them peace... All gratitude to Allah the Lord of the worlds.
By Umm (Umm) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:21 pm: Edit
Salaam,
Brother I was really disappointed by 1st post above "I have read his fatawa in which he praised the saudi regime for calling in the american to fight iraq and i have to say it is full of rubbish." Did u read the original fatwa in Arabic (something my lack of ilm prevents me from doing)? Or was it translated by SP? I do not have wala' for him blindly, but I doubt a lot of what they quote the Shayukh as saying. If he did say this stuff, I will reject his opinion, as it is not revelation to be followed without questioning. However, I'd like to be sure he said it, before criticising him. I agree with the other 2 postings though. Was it Shaykh Usamah u have quoted?
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 06:39 pm: Edit
salams
yes it was usamah i quoted.
I read the translation of the fatawa in the book allah's governance on earth by shaikh abu hamza. i the bak of he book he has providedthe fatawa in arabic. like you i can not read arabic so i have to trust abu hamza on this one.
have you read the fatawa? if you haven't then try to get hold of it and get it translated by some one you trust.
i may sound harsh by saying that the fatawa is full of rubbish but when you read it you will understand, it is totally agains the shariah and to praise the saudi regime for calling in the kuffar to the land of revelation really did get to me. i cant understand how someone with that much knowledge say somthing like that.
having said all that i have to say people should still benfit from his other fatawas ans books.
another thing is that i am dissapointed by the salfai brothers for not refuting the claims made bu SP about what shaikh bin baz said about usamah and al qaidah in general. also the very little is said about the salafi brother regarding his fatawa on allowing the kuffar into saudi.
wasalams
By Abu Maryam (Abumariyum) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 09:04 pm: Edit
as-salamu'alaykum wa raHmatullah
I hope you all read this in the best of health and highest of Iman.
Firstly to clarify the pamphlet distributed by SP.
The fatawa whose pamphlet depicted an aircraft, with direct relation to the 9/11 event, is gravely misleading.
In actual fact if you read the article on Salafi Publications, you will find the fatwa by Shaykh Bin Baz Raheemullah, was passed quite a few years back, and was directed towards two individuals, al-Masari and al-Faqeeh. It is very clear where it is written, 'and ibn-Laden', that there is a footnote reference, which then says:
Footnote: And 'We (SP)' say Ibn-Laden because of his statement.....
So to clarify this was not a statement or fatawa given by Shaykh Bin Baz raheemullah, but was 'painted' as such.
Secondly, it is not surprising to see that the individuals who post on this board do not know arabic, have not studied a basic book of fiqh, upon the Ibaadat let alone the topics of Mu'amalaat, and more than likely are extremely lacking in the hifdh of Qur'aan. Yet these individuals, are able to clearly see the rights and wrongs in this ummah, who is to blame, and to have clear insight into how to solve or how to revive this ummah. And even without knowledge, they spread their da'wah of their 'understanding' on discussion boards like this.
It is of no wonder that the ummah is in the state it is in.
The same individuals, who claim Shaykh Safar al-Hawali and Shaykh Salman al-Audah, May Allah be pleased with both of them, were the of the few righteous scholars. But Post 9/11, you saw leaflets being distributed, of how they were not like the days when they were imprisoned no more.
Indeed, it is the arrogance and ignorance of these individuals, who say which of the scholars are upon the correct path.
Maybe once we know the true worth of knowledge, we will think twice about entering into the arena of da'wah.
It is Haram/sinful to give da'wah upon taqlid.
Please read this article, concerning the 'Some Guidelines Concerning the Scholars':
http://www.islaam.net/display/display.php?id=215&category=13
Surah Ra'ad,11:
Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.
was-salamu'alaykum wa rahmatullah
By Umm (Umm) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 08:59 am: Edit
Salaam,
Abu Maryam, jazakullah khairan for your clarification regarding the fatwa. It all makes sense now! I didn't care much for the 2nd part of your posting. As for me, u can say what u like, I don't really care to be honest. I take offense that my Mulsim brothers have been spoken about so harshly. Why don't you go to SP and give them the benefit of this advise? They are the ones to pass out fataawa left, right and centre, misleading everyone. We never said that we were knowledgeable. If u think this discussion board shouldn't exist, go tell Abu Zubair. The Muslims on here refer back to Qur'aan and Sunnah Masha'Allah, and I have learnt a lot here. I have never seen anyone give fataawa here. Rather it is SP who see themselves as Shayukh, when they can't do anything but go to Madina Uni and fail their exams. This is why one of their du'at has stacks of books in Arabic lying around to impress these gullible brothers (his wife claimed that so people realize he knows Arabic), yet he failed his 2nd year in Madinah Uni. I know for a fact that they took a basic pamphlet traslated by Abu Muntasir, took off his name, and then ascribed it to themselves. If Abu Muntasir is not worthy to translate for them (in their own words) "Where did HE study Arabic?" then why ponce his translation? Do your own one!!! If u can't, how are they able to translate these vast volumes of Fiqh lying around? Surely they are not just there for decoration? This brother is taken as a Scholar, we are not, nor do we seek to be.
I myself do not know much Arabic or Qur'aan. I am learning however, as are all of the brothers and sisters on the Board insha'Allah. When these people come up to us and call us deviants, refusing to salaam us etc, the fitna has been brought to us, we didn't go searching for it. Thus we have to have a basic ilm of what is going on. It is fard kifaayah to learn fiqh anyway, except what pertains to you personally e.g. regarding the ruling of Salah etc. Did we ever claim to be the "Vanguards of al-islam?" like SP? I bet u have never spoken to them as harshly as u have to those on this board.
As for Shaikh Safar and Sheikh Salman, why were they released? Because Sheikh Ibn Baz had been doing a lot to free them, and a few weeks after his death, they were released (June 1999 ). I can't comment on these "leaflets" post 9-11, I have no clue what they are about. However, they have the courage of their convictions, unlike many so-called Scholars. No-one is doing taqleed of them. I am hardly surprised at your stance, I have thought for a long time that you seem to be one of the "Islaam.net" type, who think they are in the middle (on the fence). Rather, you defend Abdul-Haqq who has handed over fellow Muslims to the Kuffar, yet u criticise those who praise these 2 scholars! When have they sought to collaborate with the intelligence services? Who is more deserving of being criticised? The time has gone passed the "Let's all leave this fitnah and go back to studying Fiqh" kind of attitude. They are continuing to recruit people. They need to be warned against. When u hear them calling Shaykh Usamah a "nut" and a "madman" like I have, then tell me that this doesn't concern us. That the honour of this brother doesn't need defending, as we are not Scholars. And I seek refuge in Allah from their tongue and intentions. Ameen.
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By saghar on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:12 pm: Edit
Salam,
Brothers and sister, what`s this SP? SP stands for what? And who are they and from where they are?
By saghar on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:24 pm: Edit
Salam, I asked question from islamtoday.net which is under supervision of sheikh suleman auda.
Assalam-u-Alikum, I am student studying at American University of
Beirut. Sheikh, i sent a question before as well, but i didn`t get reply
from you yet. My question was regarding sheikh bin baz.I asked you that
if he was puppet of saudi regime.People here are slandering him that he
always issued fatwa in accordance with saudi regime.As you are from his
country, so u can give me the best answer enshallah. Did he always issue
fatwa what saudi goverment asked him to issue?I could hear your cassette
about sheikh bin baz but i am not arabian.So, i don`t understand arabic
at all. I am from Pakistan, but i am studying at Beirut.I also heard
that sheikh bin baz called usama bin ladin khawarij.What do u say about
it?Sheikh please don`t ignore me. Notify me with the truth. I am waiting
for your reply as soon as possible. Yours truly,
The Answer:
By Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turiyrî
Former Professor at Imam University
Dear Brother, I am writing to you after the death of this Sheikh, May
Allah bless him, whence he can be of no help or harm to anyone. I am
writing to you to tell to you that I had known him since I was fifteen
years old and the Sheikh died only after I had turned forty. I knew him
closely and continuously. I also know those who used to mix with him and
who are aware of the most intricate details of his life.
I will tell you about him some of what I know:
1. He used to say only what he believed whether or not what he
believed was in agreement with the government, other people, or other
sheikhs. Never in my life had I seen anyone more ardent in adopting the
truth when he knew it.
2. The sheikh used to be critical of the government in some of its
policies and actions, but he feared Allah in the way he handled these
matters and he did not publicize his disapproval. He used to write
private letters to the government stating the truth, and clearing
himself of the matter. He would give advice but refrain from other
matters.
3. We never knew among any of the people we met or heard about
anyone who combining between knowledge and practical application,
generosity, good manners, helping others, and teaching as well as he
did.
4. Those people who say those things about him that you mention
either they do not know him well or they are among those who differ with
him in fundamental matters of belief. The Sheikh was active in fighting
numerous innovations (bid`ah), and many innovators mobilized themselves
against him and slandered him with many horrible claims.
5. If you knew Arabic, I would have recommended that you read the
book we already sent you about Sheikh Ibn Baz.
6. My advice to you is to avoid levying accusations against this
Sheikh or any other scholars. They have already departed from this life
and gone back to their Lord, Allah. The claims that are made against the
scholars may be incorrect, and the people being accused might happen to
be from the pious devotees of Allah (Wali) .
Allah says in a hadîth qudsî : “ Who ever aggress against my walî, I
will be at war with him” .
May Allah bless you with success.
By Abu Maryam (Abumariyum) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 03:33 pm: Edit
as-salamu'alaykum wa raHmatullah
Please read my articles again, I do not defend SP, rather they are a cause of great fitna in this day and age. But, if you take a step back, and look at what many people do, you will find that, what SP do to others, they do the same. That is they say such and such scholar is a govt. Agent etc. Just like SP, who say the same about other maasha'ik.
I ask you sincerly, does your Iman, really get raised involving yourself in speaking of individuals, like Abdul-haq Baker or which scholar can be trusted and which one cannot be.
In the post above, I clarified the misleading nature of SP, but one has to be just, and see that others who are opposed to SP, fall into the same trap. My posting regarding Abdul Haq Baker, was not a defense of an individual, but to remind everyone of the principle of 'Correct' Akhlaq especially in matters of the Honour of ANY muslim, this is why I urged everyone to listen to the lectures by Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi regarding, the Story of Ifk (Back Biting of 'Aisha ra).
Please do read my postings without any bias, anyone who knows me, will know I have no affiliation or little love for the fitna caused by a certain group in the west.
But this does not mean that I am or anyone else is free from this sin, and none of us should kid ourselves into believing that.
So please accept my apologies, If my postings were not clear enough.
was-salamu'alaykum wa raHmatullah
By Umm (Umm) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 06:05 pm: Edit
Salaam,
You have clarified your point, jazakullah khairan. I do agree with u Abu Maryam that this fitnah IS a waste of time. BUT, as they are pro-active, they need to be stopped. Because people stayed quiet, they have spread so far. As for Abdul-Haqq, to me it is an action of Kufr, but I would not call him a kaafir. But brother, the action of handing over Muslims to kaafirs, and thinking it is Islamically permissible, is hardly the same as the story of the Ifk. Aisha (RA) was falsely slandered. He openly admits what he did.
I have never started a discussion mentioning this stuff, but I respond when people post. This is because I see it as an Islamic duty. My heart aches to see Muslims crying over Yahoodi Jasus Daniel Pearl's execution Masha'Allah, but the massacres of Muslims, do not warrant their tears. I certainly didn't lose any sleep over it! SP (Salafi Publications) are obviously headed by a munafiq somewhere (and I don't know who), else they wouldn't have effectively done so much damage. A few Muslims have apostated, and some have gone jaahil, since this fitnah raised its ugly head. They need to be exposed.
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 07:22 pm: Edit
salams
i agree with sis umm 100 percent. the SP are misguiding a lot of people especialy in colleges and uni's. at my uni they called down this person called abu khadijah to give a general talk on islam to non muslims and muslim alike. he ended up calling osama a khrawridge and started refuting other groups. there was a sikh guy there and he was baffeled.
i know so many poeple from my uni who were coming into the deen, but when they spend some tme with the SP lot they're manners become appalling and they openly begin the slandar and humuliate shaikh usamah and the talibaan and the mujaahids in general. they seem to have no sympothy for the pople of kashmir,palistine etc. the say that the suicide bombers are condemed to hell and the publish fatawas from the like of shaikh Uthaymeen in support, ireally dont know where they get these fatawas from.
all they ever do is talk about groups and parties and divide the poeple. they mix amongst themselves only and look down at others as if they are inferior to them.
they make a big song and dance about tawheed but what aboput tawheed al hakimiyaah? then they talk about the kalimah and its conditions, but they always leave out or over look al wala wal bara.
in short its a shame we have to talk about these things but it is a must if peole do not expose them they will lead many astry. in addition to this we must defent the true shaolars like shaikh usamah. SP hav given the salafis a very bad name and the fitnah they have caused has confused many brothers who have left folloeing the shariah, i have seen this with my own eyes.
By Saghar on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 07:17 pm: Edit
Salam,
No one commented about the fatwa which was posted by me.
Wasalam
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:46 am: Edit
well what do you want us to say bro. sahikh bin bazz was clearly a very pious and knowledgable person. but it is known that he gave a fatawa with allowed the americans to occupy the land of revelations by the worst ememy of islam america and on top of that he praised the saudi regime for calling in these filthy kuffar.
this is from the translation of the fatawa which i have read from th book of abu hamza called allahs governance on earth. of the fatawa says other wise then someone please corect me but i trust abu hamza's translation and i have no reason to doupt his translation.
this resulted in the largest genocide known to mankind of muslim in iraq and neighbouring couteries. the wealth of the ummahis being robbed in daylight before the people eyes, whilst millions of muslim starve to death.
the americans have got a strong food hol i the heard of the muslim lands from where they an attack any muslim country.
the fataw was totally against the shariah. i don't accept the argument that it was his ijttihad and he made a mistake so he will get one reward as this was not a matter of ijihaad. the only time the muslims can seek help form the kuffar is when there is no chance of trechery and teh muslms have the upperhand see defence o the muslim lands for more details.
all i can say is benefit from the shaikh works but when it comes to jihaad related issues and reforming the apostate regimes only accept fatawas from the mujahid scholars. in addition to this ponder carfully over teh wors of shaikh osamma
"
.....The regime has strived to keep these scholars in the shadows and then removed them, one way or another, from being effective elements in the lives of the people in the community. At the forefront of these scholars was the Sheikh Abdullah Bin Hamid - May Allah bless his soul - who was the Mufti in the Arabian peninsula, and who headed the supreme council of judges. However, the regime constrained him and tightened their grip on him until he offered his resignation.. He has many famous writings in response to the unacceptable laws which the government had introduced instead of the Law of Allah, one of these is a treatise dealing with the law of work and workers which deals with many of the introduced laws which contradict the law of Allah (s.w.t.).
At the same time, they promoted some of the scholars who were far below Sheikh Ibn Hamid - may Allah bless his soul - those who have been known to be weak and soft, so they put them forward in a cunning plan which began more than twenty years ago.. During the preceding two decades, the regime enlarged the role of Bin Baz (Grand Mufti) because of what it knows of his weakness and flexibility and the ease of influencing him with the various means which the interior ministry practices through providing him with false information. So, a generation of youth were raised believing that the most pious and knowledgeable of people is Bin Baz as a result of the media promotion through a well studied policy which had been progressed over twenty years.
After this, the government began to strike with the cane of Bin Baz, every corrective programme which the honest scholars put forward, further, it extracted a Fatwa to hand over Palestine to the Jews, and before this, to permit entry into the country of the two sacred mosques to the modern day crusaders under the rule of necessity, then it relied on a letter from him to the minister for internal affairs and placed the honest scholars in the gaols.
The confidence of the people and the youth in Bin Baz was therefore shaken, however the price was very high, whilst the confidence of the people in the working scholars, particularly those in the prisons had been increased.
The policy of the Organisation for Advice and Rectification towards these scholars is the continuation of providing advise to them openly and secretly (as there is no person above the law, and we are not immune) and particularly in the matters where they gave public rulings, and to bring the rulings of the scholars who respond to their rulings, in order to bring awareness to the people as to the correct ruling with respect to these matters, and not to forestall the rectification programme so that the scholars are made aware, as the pressure which is applied against them is very great.
Also the promotion of the honest scholars and their mention with what they deserve in front of the people so that the confidence of the people would greatly shift in support to them.
"
the fatawa you posted above does not answer the questiondid shaikh bin bazz cal ossama a khawridge and why did he give a fataw contradictory to the shariah when the issue is clear cut.
any way whats done is doe lets learn from it and move on the shaikh is now dead and we leave his affair with Allah.
wasalams
waslams
IslamicAwakening.Com Discussion Board: Islaam in general: Why sheikh bin baz??????????????????
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By Saghar on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 01:44 pm: Edit
Salam,
I read a new thing today that bin baz called usama bin ladin kharijee.I am going to laugh.Too much support of saudi regime. I don`t know how people called sheikh?
Waslam
By Umm (Umm) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 03:58 pm: Edit
Salaam,
I will not accept Shaykh ibn Baz (RM)'s words IF he said this about Shaykh Usamah. However, neither will I sit her and let u revile a Shaykh, especially one who is dead and cannot defend himself. And I would like to see proof of this so-called fatwa, and not from SP's "trust-worthy" translators either.
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:13 pm: Edit
I think brother saqhar must have seen the phmaplet that SP released some time ago calles terrorism hijacking suicide bombing and shaikh bin bazz's advise to usmah bin laden. in the book they quote the shaikh saying usmah is a khawridge. in additon to this the shaikh is quoted as saing that those youth who attacked the americans in saudi in riyadh are also khawridge. but these youth were praised very highly by al qaidh in the video the state of the ummah released by al qaidah.
in one of the interviews shaikh usamah says that teh saudi regime used bin bazz to let the saudis in to the land of revelation and to controle the masses.
no doupt shaikh bin bazz had a lot of knowledge but his silence and stance regarding the apostate saudi regime has casued mis-trust amongst a lot of people. i have read his fatawa in which he praised teh saudi regime for calling in the american to figh iraq and i have to say it is full of rubbish. in shallah i will post teh fatawa soon.
all i can say is a muslim we have to practice al wala wal bara even if it be against our own family.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:16 pm: Edit
slaams
if what SP have posted on their website and the phamplet they have released is false then i thing the brothers and sister should refute it and state what the truth is. they should defend the shaikh if lies are saiud about him.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:20 pm: Edit
* What is the policy that should be adopted by the Islamic movement towards the scholars who defend -intentionally or unintentio-nally- the likes of the Saud regime?
It is not a concealed fact that the police states in the Arab world rely on some foundations in order to protect themselves.. Amongst these organisations is the security organisation as they spend generously on it, and its foremost mission is to spy on its own people in order to protect the person of the ruler, even if this was at the expense of the rights of the people and their security, as also the military sector, which is prepared to strike the people if they wish to reject the suppression and to remove oppression and establish truth.
The media sector is in the same category as it strives to beatify the persons of the leaders, to drowse the community, and to fulfil the plans of the enemies through keeping the people occupied with the minor matters, and to stir their emotions and desires until corruption becomes widespread amongst the believers.
There is also another organisation which takes priority with the leaders in the Arab world, and is used to take the people astray, and to open the door wide for the security factions to fulfil their aforementioned objectives.. This is the organisation of the scholars of the authorities, as the role of this organisation is the most dangerous of roles in the entirety of the Arabic countries.
History is the best witness to this.
At the same time that some of the leaders are engaging in the major Kufr, which takes them out of the fold of Islam in broad daylight and in front of all the people, you would find a Fatwa from their religious organisation.. In particular, the role of the religious organisation in the country of the two sacred mosques is of the most ominous of roles, this is overlooking whether it fulfilled this role intentionally or unintentionally, the harm which eventuated from their efforts is no different from the role of the most ardent enemies of the nation.
The regime in the land of the two sacred mosques has given a very high priority to this organisation, and has been able to enlarge its position in the estimation of the people until it made of it an idol to be worshipped aside from God amongst some of the common people, and without the will of the members of this organisation.
However, there continues to be in the land of the two sacred mosques - with gratitude to Allah - a good number of honest scholars and students who work according to their teachings, and those who have taken visible and daring stances against the Kufr activities which the regime is working.
The regime has strived to keep these scholars in the shadows and then removed them, one way or another, from being effective elements in the lives of the people in the community. At the forefront of these scholars was the Sheikh Abdullah Bin Hamid - May Allah bless his soul - who was the Mufti in the Arabian peninsula, and who headed the supreme council of judges. However, the regime constrained him and tightened their grip on him until he offered his resignation.. He has many famous writings in response to the unacceptable laws which the government had introduced instead of the Law of Allah, one of these is a treatise dealing with the law of work and workers which deals with many of the introduced laws which contradict the law of Allah (s.w.t.).
At the same time, they promoted some of the scholars who were far below Sheikh Ibn Hamid - may Allah bless his soul - those who have been known to be weak and soft, so they put them forward in a cunning plan which began more than twenty years ago.. During the preceding two decades, the regime enlarged the role of Bin Baz (Grand Mufti) because of what it knows of his weakness and flexibility and the ease of influencing him with the various means which the interior ministry practices through providing him with false information. So, a generation of youth were raised believing that the most pious and knowledgeable of people is Bin Baz as a result of the media promotion through a well studied policy which had been progressed over twenty years.
After this, the government began to strike with the cane of Bin Baz, every corrective programme which the honest scholars put forward, further, it extracted a Fatwa to hand over Palestine to the Jews, and before this, to permit entry into the country of the two sacred mosques to the modern day crusaders under the rule of necessity, then it relied on a letter from him to the minister for internal affairs and placed the honest scholars in the gaols.
The confidence of the people and the youth in Bin Baz was therefore shaken, however the price was very high, whilst the confidence of the people in the working scholars, particularly those in the prisons had been increased.
The policy of the Organisation for Advice and Rectification towards these scholars is the continuation of providing advise to them openly and secretly (as there is no person above the law, and we are not immune) and particularly in the matters where they gave public rulings, and to bring the rulings of the scholars who respond to their rulings, in order to bring awareness to the people as to the correct ruling with respect to these matters, and not to forestall the rectification programme so that the scholars are made aware, as the pressure which is applied against them is very great.
Also the promotion of the honest scholars and their mention with what they deserve in front of the people so that the confidence of the people would greatly shift in support to them.
* How do you evaluate the Saud regime's foreign policy towards the Muslim world in the past years?
The external policy of the Saud regime towards Islamic issues is a policy which is tied to the British outlook from the establishment of Saudi Arabia until 1364 ah (1945 ac), then it became attached to the American outlook after America gained prominence as a major power in the world after the Second World War.
It is well known that the policies of these two countries bear the greatest enmity towards the Islamic world.
To be taken out of this category is the final phase of the rule of King Faisal, as there was a clear interest with the Muslim issues, in particular al Quds and Palestine.
However, the regime does not cease to cry in the open over the matters effecting the Muslims without making any serious effort to serve the interests of the Muslim community apart from small efforts in order to confuse people and throw some dust into their eyes.
* The confrontation between the Islamic movement and the apostate Saud regime recorded a historical turning point following the latest attacks against the American occupiers targets. How did these attacks reflect on the internal front, and how did they affect the Saudi-American relations?
There were important effects to the two explosions in Riyadh on both the internal and external aspects. Most important amongst these is the awareness of the people to the significance of the American occupation of the country of the two sacred mosques, and that the original decrees of the regime are a reflection of the wishes of the American occupiers. So the people became aware that their main problems were caused by the American occupiers and their puppets in the Saudi regime, whether this was from the religious aspect or from other aspects in their everyday lives. The sympathies of the people with the working scholars who had been imprisoned also increased as has their understanding of their advises and guidance which led the people to support the general rectification movement which is led by the scholars and the callers to Islam. This movement - with the bounty of Allah - is increasing in power and in supporters day after day at the expense of the regime. The sympathy with these missions at the civil and military levels were great, as also the sympathies of the Muslim world with the struggle against the Americans.
As for the relationship between the regime and the American occupiers, these operations have embarrassed both sides and have led to the exchange of accusations between them. So we have the Americans stating that the causes of the explosions are the bad policies of the regime and the corruption of members of the ruling family, and the regime is accusing the Americans of exceeding their authority by taking advantage of the regime and forcing it to enter into military and civil contracts which are beyond its means, which led to great economic slide which has effected the people. In addition to this is the behaviour of the Americans with crudeness and arrogance with the Saudi army and their general behaviour with citizens, and the privileges which the Americans enjoy in distinction from the Saudi forces.
These missions also paved the way for the raising of the voices of opposition against the American occupation from within the ruling family and the armed forces; in fact we can say that the remaining Gulf countries have been effected to the same degree, and that the voices of opposition to the American occupation have begun to be heard at the level of the ruling families and the governments of the Cooperative Council of Gulf countries. The differences in outlooks between the Americans and the Gulf states has appeared for the first time since the second Gulf war. This was during the conference of the ministers of external affairs of the countries of the cooperative council of Gulf states which was held in Riyadh to look into the American missile aggression against Iraq. These differences are nothing more than a sign of the strain which has eventuated in the relationship between America and the countries of the region in the footsteps of the Jihad missions against the Americans in Riyadh and as a result of the fear of these regimes that their own lands might witness similar Jihad missions.
* It was observed that the American and Saudi officials tried to link the latest operations to some foreign countries. What is behind these attempts?
A result of the increasing reaction of the people against the American occupation and the great sympathy with the Jihad missions against the Americans is the eagerness of the Americans and the Saudis to propagate false information to disperse these sympathies. This can be witnessed in their statements that some of the countries in the region were behind the Jihad missions inside the country of the two sacred mosques, however the people are aware that this is an internal Islamic movement against the American occupation which is revealing itself in the most clear picture after the killing of the four champions who performed the Riyadh operation, the ones concerning whom, we ask Allah to accept amongst the martyrs.
It has become routine policy for countries upon facing an internal calamity is to lay the responsibility on an external country. Before the puppetry of the Arabic countries to America became plainly obvious, the security sections never hesitated to accuse any rectifying Islamic movement to be a puppet to America and Israel.
* What are the regime's choices with regards to the Muslim uprising, and what are your expectations for the future?
There are several choices for the regime, one of these is reconciliation with all the different sections of the public, by releasing the scholars, and offering essential changes, the most important of these is to bring back Islamic law, and to practise real Shura (consultative government). The regime may resort to this choice after finding itself in the position of a morsel of food for the Americans to take, after the enmity has been stirred with their people. These people today feel that the Americans have exceeded their limits both politically and economically, the regime now knows that the public are aware that their sovereignty is shared. This was particularly evident in the recent period through the American press statements which give justification to the American occupation which only exists to rob the wealth of the people to the benefit of the Americans. This option is dependent on the agreement of the people who hold the solution and have the ability to effect change, at the forefront of these would be the honest scholars.
As for the other option, this is a very difficult and dangerous one for the regime, and this involves an escalation in the confrontation between the Muslim people and the American occupiers and to confront the economic haemorrhage. Its most important goal would be to change the current regime, with the permission of Allah.
* As a part of the furious international campaign against the Jihad movement, you were personally the target of a prejudiced attack, which accused you of financing terrorism and being part of an international terrorist organisation. What do you have to say about that?
After the end of the cold war, America escalated its campaign against the Muslim world in its entirety, aiming to get rid of Islam itself. Its main focus in this was to target the scholars and the reformers who were enlightening the people to the dangers of the Judao - American alliance, and they also targeted the Mujahideen. We also have been hit with some of the traces of this campaign as we were accused of funding terrorism, and being members of an international terrorist organisation. Their aims in making these allegations were to place psychological pressure on the Mujahideen and their supporters so that they would forsake the obligation of Jihad and the resistance of oppression and American Israeli occupation of Islamic sacred lands. However, our gratitude to Allah, their campaign was not successful, as terrorising the American occupiers is a religious and logical obligation. We are grateful to Allah Most Exalted in that He has facilitated Jihad in His cause for us, against the Americo - Israeli attacks on the Islamic sanctities.
As for their accusations of terrorising the innocent, the children, and the women, these are in the category "accusing others with their own affliction in order to fool the masses". The evidence overwhelmingly shows America and Israel killing the weaker men, women, and children in the Muslim world and elsewhere. A few examples of this are seen in the recent Qana massacre in Lebanon, and the death of more than six hundred thousands (600,000) Iraqi children because of the shortage of food and medicine which resulted from the boycotts and sanctions against the Muslim Iraqi people, also their withholding of arms from the Muslims of Bosnian Hercegovina leaving them prey to the Christian Serbians who massacred and raped in a manner not seen in contemporary history. Not to forget the dropping of the H bombs on cities with their entire populations of children, elderly, and women, on purpose, and in a premeditated manner as was the case with Hiroshima and Nakazagki. Then, killing hundreds of thousands of children in Iraq, and whose numbers (of dead) continue to increase as a result of the sanctions. Despite the continuing American occupation of the country of the two sacred mosques, America continues to claim that it is upholding the banner of freedom and humanity, whilst these deeds which they did, you would find that the most ravenous of animals would not descend to.
As for what America accuses us of, of killing the innocent people, they have not been able to offer any evidence, despite the magnitude of their expenditure on their intelligence services. Despite what our history is witnessing in the Afghan phase of the Jihad. This was also unstained with any blood of innocent people, despite the inhuman Russian campaign against our women, our children, and our brothers in Afghanistan... Similar is our history with respect to our differences with the Saudi regime, all that has been proved is our joy at the killing of the American Soldiers in Riyadh and Khobar, and these are the sentiments of every Muslim. Our encouragement and call to Muslims to enter Jihad against the American and the Israeli occupiers are actions which we are engaging in as religious obligations. Allah Most High has commanded us in many verses of the Qur`an to fight in His path and to urge the believers to do so. Of these are His words: "Fight in the path of Allah, you are not charged with the responsibility except for yourself, and urge the believers, lest Allah restrain the might of the rejectors, and Allah is stronger in might and stronger in inflicting punishment." and His words: "And what is it with you that you do not fight in the path of Allah, whilst the weak amongst the men, and the women, and the children who say: our Lord take us out of this town the people of which are oppressive, and make for us from You a protecting friend and make for us from You a succourer", and His words: "So if you meet those who reject, then strike the necks..." We have given an oath to Allah to continue in the struggle as long as we have blood pumping in our veins or a seeing eye, and we beg of Allah to accept and to grant a good ending for us and for all the Muslims.
* Some media sources mentioned that the Afghan government demanded that you leave the country. How true is this?
The Afghan government has not asked us to leave the country... All gratitude to Allah, our relationship with our brother Mujahideen in Afghanistan is a deep and broad relationship where blood and sweat have mixed as have the links over long years of struggle against the Soviets, it is not a passing relationship, nor one based on personal interests.
They are committed to support the religion approved by Allah, and that country remains as the Muslims have known it, a strong fort for Islam, and its people are amongst the most protective of the religion approved by Allah, and the keenest to fulfil His laws and to establish an Islamic state.
That passing phase of infighting has saddened us as it has saddened all the Muslims, however, we wish to indicate that the picture of events as painted by the international press is grossly distorted, and that this infighting is much smaller and less fierce than what Muslims on the outside may imagine, and that most of the country is living a normal peaceful life; apart from some petty crimes here and there as some elements attempt to create corruption under cover of the disputes amongst some of the groups. We our hoping that Afghanistan would regain very soon - God willing - its Islamic position which would befit its history of Jihad.
* What is the responsibility of the Muslim populations towards the international campaign against Islam?
What bears no doubt in this fierce Judao - Christian campaign against the Muslim world, the likes of which has never been seen before, is that the Muslims must prepare all the possible might to repel the enemy on the military, economic, missionary, and all other areas. It is crucial for us to be patient and to cooperate in righteousness and piety and to raise awareness to the fact that the highest priority, after faith is to repel the incursive enemy which corrupts the religion and the world, and nothing deserves a higher priority after faith, as the scholars have declared, for this cause, it is crucial to overlook many of the issues of bickering in order to unite our ranks so that we can repel the greater Kufr.
All must move giving life to the words of the Most High: "Indeed this, your community, is one community, and I am your Lord, so worship me" and that they should not be like those whom Allah has described with His words: "Indeed those who have divided their religion and became schisms, you are not of them in any way." It is essential to volunteer and not to bicker, and the Muslim should not belittle righteousness in any way, the messenger ( peace and blessings upon him) said: "Whoever believes in Allah and the last day must speak good or not speak at all." and they must heed the words of the messenger (peace and blessings upon him) when they move: "Inform and do not repel, and make it easy and do not make it difficult.".. And we ask Allah to give this community the guidance to exalt the people who obey Him and humiliate those who disobey Him, and to give us a rule where decency is commanded and evil is forbidden. O Allah bless Mohammad, Your servant and messenger, and his family, and companions, and give them peace... All gratitude to Allah the Lord of the worlds.
By Umm (Umm) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 05:21 pm: Edit
Salaam,
Brother I was really disappointed by 1st post above "I have read his fatawa in which he praised the saudi regime for calling in the american to fight iraq and i have to say it is full of rubbish." Did u read the original fatwa in Arabic (something my lack of ilm prevents me from doing)? Or was it translated by SP? I do not have wala' for him blindly, but I doubt a lot of what they quote the Shayukh as saying. If he did say this stuff, I will reject his opinion, as it is not revelation to be followed without questioning. However, I'd like to be sure he said it, before criticising him. I agree with the other 2 postings though. Was it Shaykh Usamah u have quoted?
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 06:39 pm: Edit
salams
yes it was usamah i quoted.
I read the translation of the fatawa in the book allah's governance on earth by shaikh abu hamza. i the bak of he book he has providedthe fatawa in arabic. like you i can not read arabic so i have to trust abu hamza on this one.
have you read the fatawa? if you haven't then try to get hold of it and get it translated by some one you trust.
i may sound harsh by saying that the fatawa is full of rubbish but when you read it you will understand, it is totally agains the shariah and to praise the saudi regime for calling in the kuffar to the land of revelation really did get to me. i cant understand how someone with that much knowledge say somthing like that.
having said all that i have to say people should still benfit from his other fatawas ans books.
another thing is that i am dissapointed by the salfai brothers for not refuting the claims made bu SP about what shaikh bin baz said about usamah and al qaidah in general. also the very little is said about the salafi brother regarding his fatawa on allowing the kuffar into saudi.
wasalams
By Abu Maryam (Abumariyum) on Thursday, May 30, 2002 - 09:04 pm: Edit
as-salamu'alaykum wa raHmatullah
I hope you all read this in the best of health and highest of Iman.
Firstly to clarify the pamphlet distributed by SP.
The fatawa whose pamphlet depicted an aircraft, with direct relation to the 9/11 event, is gravely misleading.
In actual fact if you read the article on Salafi Publications, you will find the fatwa by Shaykh Bin Baz Raheemullah, was passed quite a few years back, and was directed towards two individuals, al-Masari and al-Faqeeh. It is very clear where it is written, 'and ibn-Laden', that there is a footnote reference, which then says:
Footnote: And 'We (SP)' say Ibn-Laden because of his statement.....
So to clarify this was not a statement or fatawa given by Shaykh Bin Baz raheemullah, but was 'painted' as such.
Secondly, it is not surprising to see that the individuals who post on this board do not know arabic, have not studied a basic book of fiqh, upon the Ibaadat let alone the topics of Mu'amalaat, and more than likely are extremely lacking in the hifdh of Qur'aan. Yet these individuals, are able to clearly see the rights and wrongs in this ummah, who is to blame, and to have clear insight into how to solve or how to revive this ummah. And even without knowledge, they spread their da'wah of their 'understanding' on discussion boards like this.
It is of no wonder that the ummah is in the state it is in.
The same individuals, who claim Shaykh Safar al-Hawali and Shaykh Salman al-Audah, May Allah be pleased with both of them, were the of the few righteous scholars. But Post 9/11, you saw leaflets being distributed, of how they were not like the days when they were imprisoned no more.
Indeed, it is the arrogance and ignorance of these individuals, who say which of the scholars are upon the correct path.
Maybe once we know the true worth of knowledge, we will think twice about entering into the arena of da'wah.
It is Haram/sinful to give da'wah upon taqlid.
Please read this article, concerning the 'Some Guidelines Concerning the Scholars':
http://www.islaam.net/display/display.php?id=215&category=13
Surah Ra'ad,11:
Verily never will Allah change the condition of a people until they change what is in themselves.
was-salamu'alaykum wa rahmatullah
By Umm (Umm) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 08:59 am: Edit
Salaam,
Abu Maryam, jazakullah khairan for your clarification regarding the fatwa. It all makes sense now! I didn't care much for the 2nd part of your posting. As for me, u can say what u like, I don't really care to be honest. I take offense that my Mulsim brothers have been spoken about so harshly. Why don't you go to SP and give them the benefit of this advise? They are the ones to pass out fataawa left, right and centre, misleading everyone. We never said that we were knowledgeable. If u think this discussion board shouldn't exist, go tell Abu Zubair. The Muslims on here refer back to Qur'aan and Sunnah Masha'Allah, and I have learnt a lot here. I have never seen anyone give fataawa here. Rather it is SP who see themselves as Shayukh, when they can't do anything but go to Madina Uni and fail their exams. This is why one of their du'at has stacks of books in Arabic lying around to impress these gullible brothers (his wife claimed that so people realize he knows Arabic), yet he failed his 2nd year in Madinah Uni. I know for a fact that they took a basic pamphlet traslated by Abu Muntasir, took off his name, and then ascribed it to themselves. If Abu Muntasir is not worthy to translate for them (in their own words) "Where did HE study Arabic?" then why ponce his translation? Do your own one!!! If u can't, how are they able to translate these vast volumes of Fiqh lying around? Surely they are not just there for decoration? This brother is taken as a Scholar, we are not, nor do we seek to be.
I myself do not know much Arabic or Qur'aan. I am learning however, as are all of the brothers and sisters on the Board insha'Allah. When these people come up to us and call us deviants, refusing to salaam us etc, the fitna has been brought to us, we didn't go searching for it. Thus we have to have a basic ilm of what is going on. It is fard kifaayah to learn fiqh anyway, except what pertains to you personally e.g. regarding the ruling of Salah etc. Did we ever claim to be the "Vanguards of al-islam?" like SP? I bet u have never spoken to them as harshly as u have to those on this board.
As for Shaikh Safar and Sheikh Salman, why were they released? Because Sheikh Ibn Baz had been doing a lot to free them, and a few weeks after his death, they were released (June 1999 ). I can't comment on these "leaflets" post 9-11, I have no clue what they are about. However, they have the courage of their convictions, unlike many so-called Scholars. No-one is doing taqleed of them. I am hardly surprised at your stance, I have thought for a long time that you seem to be one of the "Islaam.net" type, who think they are in the middle (on the fence). Rather, you defend Abdul-Haqq who has handed over fellow Muslims to the Kuffar, yet u criticise those who praise these 2 scholars! When have they sought to collaborate with the intelligence services? Who is more deserving of being criticised? The time has gone passed the "Let's all leave this fitnah and go back to studying Fiqh" kind of attitude. They are continuing to recruit people. They need to be warned against. When u hear them calling Shaykh Usamah a "nut" and a "madman" like I have, then tell me that this doesn't concern us. That the honour of this brother doesn't need defending, as we are not Scholars. And I seek refuge in Allah from their tongue and intentions. Ameen.
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By saghar on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:12 pm: Edit
Salam,
Brothers and sister, what`s this SP? SP stands for what? And who are they and from where they are?
By saghar on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 12:24 pm: Edit
Salam, I asked question from islamtoday.net which is under supervision of sheikh suleman auda.
Assalam-u-Alikum, I am student studying at American University of
Beirut. Sheikh, i sent a question before as well, but i didn`t get reply
from you yet. My question was regarding sheikh bin baz.I asked you that
if he was puppet of saudi regime.People here are slandering him that he
always issued fatwa in accordance with saudi regime.As you are from his
country, so u can give me the best answer enshallah. Did he always issue
fatwa what saudi goverment asked him to issue?I could hear your cassette
about sheikh bin baz but i am not arabian.So, i don`t understand arabic
at all. I am from Pakistan, but i am studying at Beirut.I also heard
that sheikh bin baz called usama bin ladin khawarij.What do u say about
it?Sheikh please don`t ignore me. Notify me with the truth. I am waiting
for your reply as soon as possible. Yours truly,
The Answer:
By Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turiyrî
Former Professor at Imam University
Dear Brother, I am writing to you after the death of this Sheikh, May
Allah bless him, whence he can be of no help or harm to anyone. I am
writing to you to tell to you that I had known him since I was fifteen
years old and the Sheikh died only after I had turned forty. I knew him
closely and continuously. I also know those who used to mix with him and
who are aware of the most intricate details of his life.
I will tell you about him some of what I know:
1. He used to say only what he believed whether or not what he
believed was in agreement with the government, other people, or other
sheikhs. Never in my life had I seen anyone more ardent in adopting the
truth when he knew it.
2. The sheikh used to be critical of the government in some of its
policies and actions, but he feared Allah in the way he handled these
matters and he did not publicize his disapproval. He used to write
private letters to the government stating the truth, and clearing
himself of the matter. He would give advice but refrain from other
matters.
3. We never knew among any of the people we met or heard about
anyone who combining between knowledge and practical application,
generosity, good manners, helping others, and teaching as well as he
did.
4. Those people who say those things about him that you mention
either they do not know him well or they are among those who differ with
him in fundamental matters of belief. The Sheikh was active in fighting
numerous innovations (bid`ah), and many innovators mobilized themselves
against him and slandered him with many horrible claims.
5. If you knew Arabic, I would have recommended that you read the
book we already sent you about Sheikh Ibn Baz.
6. My advice to you is to avoid levying accusations against this
Sheikh or any other scholars. They have already departed from this life
and gone back to their Lord, Allah. The claims that are made against the
scholars may be incorrect, and the people being accused might happen to
be from the pious devotees of Allah (Wali) .
Allah says in a hadîth qudsî : “ Who ever aggress against my walî, I
will be at war with him” .
May Allah bless you with success.
By Abu Maryam (Abumariyum) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 03:33 pm: Edit
as-salamu'alaykum wa raHmatullah
Please read my articles again, I do not defend SP, rather they are a cause of great fitna in this day and age. But, if you take a step back, and look at what many people do, you will find that, what SP do to others, they do the same. That is they say such and such scholar is a govt. Agent etc. Just like SP, who say the same about other maasha'ik.
I ask you sincerly, does your Iman, really get raised involving yourself in speaking of individuals, like Abdul-haq Baker or which scholar can be trusted and which one cannot be.
In the post above, I clarified the misleading nature of SP, but one has to be just, and see that others who are opposed to SP, fall into the same trap. My posting regarding Abdul Haq Baker, was not a defense of an individual, but to remind everyone of the principle of 'Correct' Akhlaq especially in matters of the Honour of ANY muslim, this is why I urged everyone to listen to the lectures by Abu Ammaar Yasir Qadhi regarding, the Story of Ifk (Back Biting of 'Aisha ra).
Please do read my postings without any bias, anyone who knows me, will know I have no affiliation or little love for the fitna caused by a certain group in the west.
But this does not mean that I am or anyone else is free from this sin, and none of us should kid ourselves into believing that.
So please accept my apologies, If my postings were not clear enough.
was-salamu'alaykum wa raHmatullah
By Umm (Umm) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 06:05 pm: Edit
Salaam,
You have clarified your point, jazakullah khairan. I do agree with u Abu Maryam that this fitnah IS a waste of time. BUT, as they are pro-active, they need to be stopped. Because people stayed quiet, they have spread so far. As for Abdul-Haqq, to me it is an action of Kufr, but I would not call him a kaafir. But brother, the action of handing over Muslims to kaafirs, and thinking it is Islamically permissible, is hardly the same as the story of the Ifk. Aisha (RA) was falsely slandered. He openly admits what he did.
I have never started a discussion mentioning this stuff, but I respond when people post. This is because I see it as an Islamic duty. My heart aches to see Muslims crying over Yahoodi Jasus Daniel Pearl's execution Masha'Allah, but the massacres of Muslims, do not warrant their tears. I certainly didn't lose any sleep over it! SP (Salafi Publications) are obviously headed by a munafiq somewhere (and I don't know who), else they wouldn't have effectively done so much damage. A few Muslims have apostated, and some have gone jaahil, since this fitnah raised its ugly head. They need to be exposed.
Wa-salaam,
Umm.
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 07:22 pm: Edit
salams
i agree with sis umm 100 percent. the SP are misguiding a lot of people especialy in colleges and uni's. at my uni they called down this person called abu khadijah to give a general talk on islam to non muslims and muslim alike. he ended up calling osama a khrawridge and started refuting other groups. there was a sikh guy there and he was baffeled.
i know so many poeple from my uni who were coming into the deen, but when they spend some tme with the SP lot they're manners become appalling and they openly begin the slandar and humuliate shaikh usamah and the talibaan and the mujaahids in general. they seem to have no sympothy for the pople of kashmir,palistine etc. the say that the suicide bombers are condemed to hell and the publish fatawas from the like of shaikh Uthaymeen in support, ireally dont know where they get these fatawas from.
all they ever do is talk about groups and parties and divide the poeple. they mix amongst themselves only and look down at others as if they are inferior to them.
they make a big song and dance about tawheed but what aboput tawheed al hakimiyaah? then they talk about the kalimah and its conditions, but they always leave out or over look al wala wal bara.
in short its a shame we have to talk about these things but it is a must if peole do not expose them they will lead many astry. in addition to this we must defent the true shaolars like shaikh usamah. SP hav given the salafis a very bad name and the fitnah they have caused has confused many brothers who have left folloeing the shariah, i have seen this with my own eyes.
By Saghar on Friday, May 31, 2002 - 07:17 pm: Edit
Salam,
No one commented about the fatwa which was posted by me.
Wasalam
By Abu Azzam (Azzam) on Saturday, June 01, 2002 - 01:46 am: Edit
well what do you want us to say bro. sahikh bin bazz was clearly a very pious and knowledgable person. but it is known that he gave a fatawa with allowed the americans to occupy the land of revelations by the worst ememy of islam america and on top of that he praised the saudi regime for calling in these filthy kuffar.
this is from the translation of the fatawa which i have read from th book of abu hamza called allahs governance on earth. of the fatawa says other wise then someone please corect me but i trust abu hamza's translation and i have no reason to doupt his translation.
this resulted in the largest genocide known to mankind of muslim in iraq and neighbouring couteries. the wealth of the ummahis being robbed in daylight before the people eyes, whilst millions of muslim starve to death.
the americans have got a strong food hol i the heard of the muslim lands from where they an attack any muslim country.
the fataw was totally against the shariah. i don't accept the argument that it was his ijttihad and he made a mistake so he will get one reward as this was not a matter of ijihaad. the only time the muslims can seek help form the kuffar is when there is no chance of trechery and teh muslms have the upperhand see defence o the muslim lands for more details.
all i can say is benefit from the shaikh works but when it comes to jihaad related issues and reforming the apostate regimes only accept fatawas from the mujahid scholars. in addition to this ponder carfully over teh wors of shaikh osamma
"
.....The regime has strived to keep these scholars in the shadows and then removed them, one way or another, from being effective elements in the lives of the people in the community. At the forefront of these scholars was the Sheikh Abdullah Bin Hamid - May Allah bless his soul - who was the Mufti in the Arabian peninsula, and who headed the supreme council of judges. However, the regime constrained him and tightened their grip on him until he offered his resignation.. He has many famous writings in response to the unacceptable laws which the government had introduced instead of the Law of Allah, one of these is a treatise dealing with the law of work and workers which deals with many of the introduced laws which contradict the law of Allah (s.w.t.).
At the same time, they promoted some of the scholars who were far below Sheikh Ibn Hamid - may Allah bless his soul - those who have been known to be weak and soft, so they put them forward in a cunning plan which began more than twenty years ago.. During the preceding two decades, the regime enlarged the role of Bin Baz (Grand Mufti) because of what it knows of his weakness and flexibility and the ease of influencing him with the various means which the interior ministry practices through providing him with false information. So, a generation of youth were raised believing that the most pious and knowledgeable of people is Bin Baz as a result of the media promotion through a well studied policy which had been progressed over twenty years.
After this, the government began to strike with the cane of Bin Baz, every corrective programme which the honest scholars put forward, further, it extracted a Fatwa to hand over Palestine to the Jews, and before this, to permit entry into the country of the two sacred mosques to the modern day crusaders under the rule of necessity, then it relied on a letter from him to the minister for internal affairs and placed the honest scholars in the gaols.
The confidence of the people and the youth in Bin Baz was therefore shaken, however the price was very high, whilst the confidence of the people in the working scholars, particularly those in the prisons had been increased.
The policy of the Organisation for Advice and Rectification towards these scholars is the continuation of providing advise to them openly and secretly (as there is no person above the law, and we are not immune) and particularly in the matters where they gave public rulings, and to bring the rulings of the scholars who respond to their rulings, in order to bring awareness to the people as to the correct ruling with respect to these matters, and not to forestall the rectification programme so that the scholars are made aware, as the pressure which is applied against them is very great.
Also the promotion of the honest scholars and their mention with what they deserve in front of the people so that the confidence of the people would greatly shift in support to them.
"
the fatawa you posted above does not answer the questiondid shaikh bin bazz cal ossama a khawridge and why did he give a fataw contradictory to the shariah when the issue is clear cut.
any way whats done is doe lets learn from it and move on the shaikh is now dead and we leave his affair with Allah.
wasalams
waslams