Comments: Fasting is not accepted if one doesn’t pray [Archive]

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Anonymous

5th October 2005, 02:34 PM

ASALAAMU ALAIKUM RAHMAHTUHALLI WABARAKATUH .I THINK THAT ,TO SAY THAT A MAN OR A WOMEN IS A KAFIR IF THEY DO NOT OFFER SALAH REGULAR OR AT ALL BELONGS TO ALLAH SWT ALONE. WE ALL KNOW THE FAMOUS AHADITH ABOUT 2 PEOPLE , 1 WHO PRAYED AND FASTED REGULARLY BUT NEVER ATAINED JENNAH, BECAUSE OF BAD CHARACTER,AND THE PERSON WHO NEVER OFFERD REGULAR SALAH AND DID NOT FAST,BUT ATTAINED JENNAH, BECAUSE OF GOOD CHARACTER. MAYBE IF WE GET INTO THE HABIT OF TRYING TO HELP AND ENCOURAGE THESE "KAFIR MUSLIMS" INSTEAD OF LAYBLING AND JUDGING THESE BROTHERS AND SISTERS AS "NON BELIEVERS" THEN WE MAY ATTIAN THE PLESURE OF ALLAH SWT AND ATTIAN GOOD CHARACTER WHICH COMES BEFORE SALAH AND FASTING. AND AT THE SAME TIME WILL BE BUILDING A TRUE STRONG UMMAH INSHALLAH THAT FOCUSES ON GOING FROM STRENGHT TO STRENGTH INSTEAD OF WEAKNESS. I PRAY THAT ALLAAH SWT, HE FORGIVE US ALL OUR SINS ON THE DAY OF JUDGEMENT AAMEEEN.

Anonymous

5th October 2005, 03:57 PM

As Salaamualaikum,

Excuse me brother*******/ sister but i know of no such hadeeth. Could you provide a reference?

Also, there are clear hadeeth of the Prophet SAWS which indicate that someone who does not pray is a Kaafir. 

Yes we should call Muslims who dont pray to pray, but we should call a spade a spade also.

In reality good character comes from praying. Prayer is a pillar of Islam, it is the first deed we will be askd about ..good Charecter is not enough, though ofcourse we recognise it is a very important part of our faith.

Anonymous

13th October 2005, 10:12 PM

what is meant by good character in islam:

devotion to allah by abstaining from what is forbidden and practising what has been ordained and dealing with people according to the quran and sunnah see "the 77 branches of iman" for a more detailed explanation.

*******

what is meant by good character in the west: 

bieng polite and courteous nice and flattering also synonymous with bieng "well behaved" 

the possibility of entering jannah without praying exists for those in jihad fi sabil lillah?

the rasool said: "tell me about a person who never prayed a single rakah but still entered jannah? he answered himself and said that this man was amar bin thabit" (fath ul bari 6/105 & shahih bukahri)

why did this companion enter jannah? he never prayed never fasted never gave zakah nor did he perform hajj was it because of good character (ie good behaviour)? NO absolutely not!

the rasool told him: "take your shahada first and then fight" (sahih bukhari)

he entered jannah because he was a brand new shahada who was shaheed moments later*******in fi sabil lillah - an exceptional circumstance. had he survived he would have to pray like every other sahaba even though they had the best character they were not exempt and the*******rasool was even better than them and even he was not exempt from praying.*******

the story about someone with "good character" entering jannah having never prayed (mentioned by a previous poster) serves only to highlight the importance of having good character the purpose is not to*******replace salat it is peripheral to salat.

Anonymous

16th October 2005, 10:40 PM

I have fasted all of the rosa's so far but I have not prayed. As a matter of fact, I have not prayed on a consistent basis at all. Why? Maybe becuase I have been depressed and pressurerd with life and family demands. But I have always loved my deen and contributed toward it through giving money to islamic charities. And now you are telling me that I am a kafir? That of a christain, hindu, sikh and jew? How disgusting and demeaning a commnet and how dare you refer to me as a kafir, you self-righteous and arrogant person. I am accountable to Allah alone and I can assure you, I am a million times beter in character and in how I behave to others than so called muslim brothers who think by praying, they know it all. This article is offensive. Have I got it wrong? Should I just quit then and renounce my faith considering I am but only a kafir, non-beliver?

Mansoor Ali

16th October 2005, 11:34 PM

A person who does not pray is not a Muslim. There is nothing extreme about that statement. 

The Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu 'alaihi wa sallam,*******said: “Between a person and kufr and shirk*******is the abandonment of prayer.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2766. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Maaja, 1078, and by al-Albaanee).

Anonymous

17th October 2005, 05:13 PM

Mansoor Ali

*******You think you can dictate who is a muslim and who isn't? If muslims were to take your example and mentality in responding the way you do, ISLAM would come to an end. Educate yourself and try to follow the enlightened example of the Prophet. Speak with understanding not anger and accusation. You cite quotes but do not put them into context. Remember Mansoor, you are just a mere slave like me before the eyes of God. So try to remember that before you shoot off with accusations about who is who, and who qualifies for what. Islam is compassionate and merciful. Maybe you've forgotten about that?

Anonymous

17th October 2005, 07:51 PM

nothing can compensate salah and it is fard.

we must*******however put things into context. many people who do not pray salah do so because they have lost hope in seeking the mercy of Allah and hence have been convinced by shaytan thats theres no point in praying i.e. its too late. and many who dont pray (and I know people find this hard to believe) believe in Allah and the Last day and love the prophet. they just need guidance from brothers and sisters and should be encouraged to implement salah and other fard not pushed the other way.

In short there is*******BIG difference between those who do not*******pray because*******they do not accept the salah as an obligation, and do not believe in the Sunnah in general (the neo secularists, modernists etc)- these people are called apostates! but then there are those who deep down in their hearts have a sincere love for the prophet(saw), who believe and know the sunnah to be true, but do not practice it because of weakness of iman and*******have a*******form of self helplessness towards the deen.

so*******our*******duty is to ENCOURAGE muslims who do NOT pray to START praying salah using kind words reminding them that Allah forgives all sins except those who associate partners with him. Instead if we do as brothers are doing above and tell people that they are kafirs for not praying then all we do is push (some who may be sincere) people away. 

so to asim, I advise as a brother in islam to try slowly to offer Salah. Perhaps start with one a week, then increase to one day then to two, three, etc, until inshallah you see the beauty of praying, and then understand how it helps in overcoming lifes difficulties and troubles. Allah forgives all sins, so if u think as most non-praying muslims do that its too late to start praying or you feel embarassed to stand before Allah because you have not in years, then know the Allah forgives ALL sins except shirk. and dont look at those around you who pray but have bad character, this is shaytan trying to convince you to that you shouldnt pray. Remember you pray not for others but for yourself. Allah will not ask you about other people. so try inshallah. 

wasalaam

Anonymous

17th October 2005, 11:43 PM

Salaam Guest

Thank you so much for you for your kind words. May Allah (SWT) reward you for helping and guiding a fellow muslim brother. I will try inshallah guest. I have faith in Allah. I will try. As for brothers like Mansoor, perhaps they should heed the way how a true muslim speaks.

Salaam

gag order

27th October 2005, 08:41 PM

what the previous guest has said in encouraging you to pray is good but i would like to add the following:

asim said: "Educate yourself and try to follow the enlightened example of the Prophet" this is a good place to start asim - how about praying 5 times a day from now on, not eventually but effective immidiately!

br mansoor wrote: "The Messenger of Allaah, sal-Allaahu 'alaihi wa sallam,*******said: “Between a person and kufr and shirk*******is the abandonment of prayer.” (Narrated by al-Tirmidhi, 2766. Classed as saheeh by Ibn Maaja, 1078, and by al-Albaanee)" these are not the words of br mansoor by the way this is what the rasool said - learn from it asim take heed! 



asim said: "I am a million times beter in character and in how I behave to others than so called muslim brothers who think by praying" yeh, right!*******and that really shows in your attitude towards br mansoorfollow your own advice about how a "true muslim should speak"*******however we find you arrogant and full of hate towards people who pray to allah*******just becos they pray and you dont. 



read my previous post about "good character" and what is really meant by it .







*******

Anonymous

3rd November 2005, 03:31 PM

Gag order assumes I am arrogant and full of hate.******* I can assure you gag order that what I say holds a lot of merit but you seem to convieniently overlook this. Did the prophet not mentioned that as a sign of the end times, muslims would be praying just for the sake of praying, when in reality, praying for many muslims*******would be nothing more than an a hollow mechanised act, devoid of any spiritual peace. You missed the essence of my point here. Pray 5 times a day -good -but also live by the example of the Prophet. What good is a muslim who prays 5 times a day, 3 times a day or once a day, when in character, he conveys all the qualities contradictory to what the Prophet taught us - greed, selfishness, bigotry, ignorance. I have high expectations when I am lectured by brothers who insist 'if you don't pray-you will burn in hell'. If you pray 5 times a day then show by character.******* One can also have a very good character by balancing between Satan, the self and the angels. We strive to maintain the self whilst hoping to extoll the angelic virtues bestowed*******upon us. But many of us fail. Praying helps us redress this balance, I know-but by praying, it does not validate you as a good person automatically. We are only mere mortal beings.

Mansoor Ali

3rd November 2005, 03:46 PM

*******...by praying, it does not validate you as a good person automatically. 

You're right, but by not praying, you're not even a Muslim.

Anonymous

3rd November 2005, 04:39 PM

salaams,

enough said in this discussion guys. 

salah is fard. asim, people who pray and take no heed of their prayer are already described in the quran with severe warning, so u shouldnt*******compare yourself according to others and feel satisfied. by doing this*******you, me and others will never improve.

why wear the hijab if some women who wear hijab are spiteful, greedy and bad?

or why have a beard, when i see beardos who cheat other muslims all the time?

i know what u mean, i see it too and it does deflate*******my imaan. but this doesnt effect the importance of salah and we cant kid ourselves that because others are far worse than ourselves and pray, we shouldnt. 

also perhaps these people we see as having a bad character are only as bad as there are because it is the salah that stops them for getting worse! allah u alam. 

ur master and slave relationship is with Allah Alone, not to any tom dick and harry who says look at me i pray. Allah will ask you only. so forget anyone else. just focus on building yourself from the ground up spiritually inshallah. 

i once knew a guy who used to drink alcohol and used the same argument that im still better than some people who abstain, so be careful as it is dangerous to go down that path. i speak from personal experience.

anyways, the discussion ends here. Lets TRY to better ourselves by implementing what is fard (and the sunnah) and lets not have a go at eachother. we only excite the jews when we bicker amongst ourselves.

Anonymous

4th November 2005, 08:39 PM

Salaams to all the brothers.

Guest*******you are right. Salah is fard. Period. I accept what you say Guest and my intention was never to incite offense to any of the brothers. Just airing some of my frustrations and observations of the state of the muslim ummah.*******

Let us focus our energies on those kuffars and munifiqs inshallah, starting with that freak 'Child of God'.

Salaam

Anonymous

20th December 2005, 11:34 PM

BISMILLAAH

*******WALHAMDULILLAAH

*******AN IMPORTANT POINT TO NOTE. PREACHING IS NOT ONLY ENCOURAGING GOOD DEEDS. IT IS ALSO DISCOURAGING, RATHER PROHIBITING AND WARNING AGAINST EVIL DEEDS. DOING ONLY ONE OF THEM WILL NOT PRODUCE THE DESIRE RESULT NO MATTER WHAT THE DEVILISH THOUGHTS COME UP AGAINST THIS. 

*******THE SAHABAH COULD HAVE NEVER IMAGINED A “MUSLIM” NOT PRAYING. THEY REGARDED THOSE WHO DID NOT PAY ZAKAH (THE THIRD PILLAR OF ISLAM) AS KUFFAAR, EVEN THOUGH THEY TESTIFIED THE KALIMAH. SO WHAT DO U THINK ABOUT THOSE WHO DO NOT PRAY. DURING THEIR TIME ONLY A MUNAFIQ WHOSE NIFAAQ WAS WELL KNOWN WAS LAZY FOR SALAH (BUT THEY WOULD NEVER THE LESS LAZILY TRY TO OFFER IT WITH MUSLIMS WITH FEAR THAT OTHERWISE THEY MIGHT NOT LOOK LIKE MUSLIMS AT ALL). NO DOUBT ALL OF THE 5 PRAYERS DISTINGUISHES A MUSLIM FROM A NON MUSLIM. 

*******SO WHEN PEOPLE SPEAK ONLY OF FADHAA’IL OR ENCOURAGEMENT, THE MASSES TEND TO UNDERESTIMATE THE SIN INVOLVED. THIS IS A SERIOUS THREAT TO THE MUSLIM UMMAH. IT IS FOR JUST THIS REASON THAT MANY MUSLIMS THESE DAYS CONSIDER BIG SINS AS SMALL (AND WHICH THE SAHABAH CONSIDERED HUGE). THIS IS A SHAMEFULL SITUATION OF THE MUSLIM UMMAH.

*******THEREFORE WE FIND MANY MUSLIMS WHO UNDERESTIMATE THE GRAVITY OF SINS LIKE RULING BY OTHER THAN WHAT ALLAH HAS REVEALED, AND LIKE MOCKING SOME ASPECTS OF DEEN, LIKE CALLING UPON THE DEAD, TAKING THE ENEMIES OF ALLAAH AS AULIYAA ETC. ALL OF WHICH THROW OUT A MUSLIM FROM ISLAM.

*******IT IS THE JOB OF ULAMA TO WARN THE MUSLIM UMMAH OF THESE HUGE SINS AND NOT ONLY ENCOURAGE THEM TO DO GOOD. THE PROPHET AND SAHABAH DID BOTH. OUR PROPHET WAS A BASHEERAN WA NADHEERAN.

*******THEREFORE IF SOME ULAMA ARE ASKED STRAIGHTFOWARD QUESTIONS (LIKE WHETHER THE ONE WHO DOES NOT PRAY IS A KAAFIR OR NOT) LET THEM ANSWER WITH THE TRUTH. WE SHOULD LEARN FROM THEM, NO TEACH THEM WHAT WE THINK IS RIGHT ACCORDING TO OUR DESIRES. THEY ARE THE INHERITORS OF THE PROPHETS. 

*******NOT WARNING THE UMMAH OF THE SERIOUSNESS OF SINS WILL PRODUCE MASSES WHO WILL BE CARLESS ABOUT THEM IN THE LONG RUN.

*******OUR PROPHET PROPHECISED THIS SICKNESS (OF NOT REFUTING EVIL WITH WARNINGS ) SEE PLEASE SILSILAT AL AHAADEETH AS SAHEEHAH NO. 1790. ALTHOUGH THIS HADEETH IS ABOUT LEADERS, THE SITUATION IS MUCH WORSE NOW, NO ONE LIKES TO REFUTE (OR WARN) EVEN OTHER ORDINARY PEOPLE OF THEIR EVIL ACTIONS.

*******IT IS A SAD THAT “GUEST” SAYS:In short there is*******BIG difference between those who do not*******pray because*******they do not accept the salah as an obligation, and do not believe in the Sunnah in general (the neo secularists, modernists etc)- these people are called apostates! but then there are those who deep down in their hearts have a sincere love for the prophet(saw), who believe and know the sunnah to be true, but do not practice it because of weakness of iman and*******have a*******form of self helplessness towards the deen.

*******BECAUSE HE DOES NOT UNDERSTAND A VERY IMPORTANT ASPECT OF ISLAM, THAT IS IMAN IS NOT IN ONLY HEARTS. IMAN IS IN HEARTS AS WELL AS ACTIONS AS WELL AS SAYINGS.

*******IF THERE IS MAJOR KUFR IN HEART WHICH INVALIDATES IMAN , THEN THERE IS MAJOR KUFR OF ACTION WHICH INVALIDATES IMAN , AND THE SAME FOR KUFR OF SAIYINGS.

*******NOT PRAYING SALAH, IS MAJOR KUFR OF ACTION, AND IT THROWS OUT A PERSON FROM ISLAM, IRRESPECTIVE OF WHAT HE HAS IN HIS HEART. ( THOUGH ALLAH JUDGES THE HEARTS , IT MUST BE REMEMBERED THAT IF THE HEART IS GOOD SO IS THE BODY AND ACTIONS , AND IF IT IS SICK SO IS THE BODY AND ACTIONS).

*******IF PEOPLE REALLY HAD LOVE DEEP IN THEIR HEARTS THEY WOULD HAVE NEVER COMMITED THOSE SINS WHICH WOULD THROW THEM OUT OF ISLAM. THIS IS NOT LOVE, BUT SICKNESS. CAN’T YOU SEE THEIR REACTION TO THE HADEETH THAT IS WARNING THEM. THEY REACT WITH DISGUST ALTHOUGH IT IS THE SAYING OF THEIR PROPHET SA. 

*******A TRUE MUSLIM IF HE IS EVER REAPPROACHED WITH QURAN AND SUNNAH HE IMMEDITATELY FIXES HIMSELF AND THANKS THE PREACHER FOR TEACHING HIM WHAT HE DID NOT KNOW FROM THE BELOVED SAYINGS OF HIS LORD AND HIS PROPHET. THIS IS WELL KNOWN AMONGST THE SAHABAH. WHEN THEY WOULD HEAR A HADITH THEY WOULD FOLLOW IMMEDIATLEY. THIS IS TRUE LOVE. 

*******AND THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THIS LOVE AND USELESS ONE WHICH THE “ GUEST “ MENTIONS ( IN WHICH A SO CALLED MUSLIM COMMITS MAJOR KUFR BUT YET LOVES THE MESSENGER) IS GREAT INDEED. ALLAAH DOES NOT DENY THAT THE MUSHRIKEEN LOVE HIM. SOME OF THEM DO LOVE HIM. SEE QURAN 2 :165. BUT THAT LOVE IF OF NO USE, ALLAAH STILL HATES THEM BECAUSE THEIR SHIRK AND MAJOR KUFR CANCELS THAT OUT. THE SAME APPLIES TO THOSE WHO CLAIM THEY LOVE ALLAH BUT DROP THE SECOND PILLAR OF ISLAM ( THIS IS NO DOUBT WORSE THAN THE KUFR OF THOSE WHO DO NOT PAY ZAKAH ).

*******THIS DISEASE OF NOT REFUTING BAATIL WITH DIRE WARNINGS IS A HALLMARK OF TABLEEGHIS FOR WHICH REASON I HATE THEM.( THIS IS ALSO A HALLMARK OF JEWISH SCHOLARS WHO PREACHED ONLY WHAT THEIR PEOPLE LIKED TO HEAR , KAANU LAA YATANAAHAWNA ‘AN MUNNKARINN FA ‘ALUUH, AND ENDED UP MAKING HALAL HARAM , AND HARAM HALAL. ) SO WE FIND MANY TABLEEGHIS AND THEIR LIKE SHOWING NO DISGUST TO THESE MAJOR SINS. SO HOW CAN THE PEOPLE EVER KNOW ABOUT THE GRAVITY OF SUCH SINS?

*******I AM VERY HAPPY THAT ISLAMICAWAKENING HAS PUBLISHED THE ARTICLE ON KUFR AND SALAH. MAY ALLAAH REWARD YOU FOR HIGHLIGHTING THE SERIOUSNESS OF THIS SIN.

*******IT IS ALSO A SHAME THAT “ASIM” WRITES:You think you can dictate who is a muslim and who isn't?LET ME PUT A QUESTION TO YOU. WHAT SHOULD A******* SCHOLAR DO IF A “MUSLIM” WHO SKIPS SALAH IS BROUGHT TO HIM FOR FUNERAL PRAYERS, AND IT IS NOT KNOWN THAT HE EVER REPENTED( THAT IS , HE WAS CARELESS ABOUT BEING PUCNTUAL) ?HE HAS TO DICTATE THEN , THAT SUCH A PERSON HAS COMMITED MAJOR KUFR AND CANOOT BE PRAYED OVER NOR BURIED IN MUSLIM GRAVEYARD. HE HAS TO JUDGE WITH WHAT HE SEES( THAT IS ACTIONS , AS THE INTENTIONS ARE KNOWN TO ALLAAH ALONE) . NOW TELL ME , DOES NOT MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

*******SIMILARLY MAY ALLAH REWARD THE ULAMAH OF <country-region w:st="on"><place w:st="on">SAUDI ARABIA</place></country-region> WHO SAID THAT THE NIKAH OF A “MUSLIM” MAN WHO DOES NOT PRAY SALAH IS NOT VALID WITH A MUSLIM WOMAN WHO DOES. 

*******ASIM, IF U KNEW HOW SERIOUS WAS ABANDONING EVEN ONE SALAH ( EG ABANDONING ASR DESTROYS ALL DEEDS) ( EVEN FOR YOUR PROPHET WHOM U LOVE ) U WOULD HAVE NEVER EVER LEFT IT AT ANY COST. MY ADVICE TO YOU IS SURAH TAHA VERSE 82 , REPENT, REAFFIRM YOUR FAITH, AND DO GOOD, AND REMAIN DOING SO , FOR IT MAY BE THAT ALLAAH WILL CONVERT YOUR SAYYIAAT TO HASAANAAT. THAT IS MUCH BETTER THAN RESISTING THE CLEAR UNAMBIGOUS WARNING OF THE PROPHET YOU LOVE.

*******

*******

*******MASSALAAMAH.

Anonymous

4th January 2006, 01:40 PM

u mans need to fix up and come back to the deen

Anonymous

7th January 2006, 07:36 PM

Abba, are you referring to me? Brother Guest has given sound advice.

Anonymous

7th January 2006, 08:56 PM

to Guest (who wrote in capitals),

you are right akhi,spot on. the only thing i would say bro is the importance of taking into consideration the wider context when correcting someone as this may influence our way of giving naseehah.

for instance bro, a man who lives in mecca or another islamic country where mass fitnah is hidden
or temptations not so easy to come buy would have less sympathy from me if he were to say he has a hard time to offer salah because he has succombed to this or that, or just tried making excuses in general.


in fact people like that i feel like giving a good kicking. 

but if someone comes to me from this country, and says i want to become better muslim but its tough etc, there are all these things /fitnah i have problems with etc, then i would still makesure the importance of the sin is emphasised but would explain to the brother in a far different way as i can understand the context of fitnah under which these satanic thoughts occur here in london is x 100 worse. 

not sure if what i said may make sense! anyways, all take care. wasalaams.

Anonymous

19th January 2006, 06:14 PM

why is banking Haram?

Can i work for a while in Bank it i get Halal job? It three years have in search of Halal job

Abdul**************************** e-mail diekola001@yahoo.com

Anonymous

28th January 2006, 02:44 AM

Guest is right. I wasnt trying to water down seriousness of salah bro. I was just saying that put things into context. we should be firm*******in*******indicating the sreiousness of salah but i can tell u from personal experience, sometimes some gentle encouragement can do a lot more then telling someone they are a kafir for not praying (even though its true i know) and these words can push someone further away. I recommend people who have a hard time to kick start their salah to listen to a tape by riyad al haq - hope and despair, and to get the correct balance as this is where consistency in actions can come fourth. lets not be fairies in pretenfing to be all lovey dovey when major sins are committed but lets also not be harsh until we speak to the person and ask why it is they do NOT pray. their answer will determine our attitude in correcting them. from my personal experience, and i have met many people who do not pray is that they are too embarrased to seek taubah from Allah and dont know where to begin. these group of muslims are far different from the kafirs who say salah is not fard and is not needed as neo secular, modernists devils do. these two groups are in different camps so our naseehah should reflect this difference.

anyway its just my opinion and im not correcting anyone.

waslaams

gag order

28th January 2006, 11:01 AM

"lets also not be harsh until we speak to the person and ask why it is they do NOT pray. their answer will determine our attitude in correcting them." i agree and if you look back over the previous replies from asim you will see that*******his*******attitude deserved nothing but rebuke and contempt.*******

Anonymous

5th March 2006, 04:36 PM

Gag order

You misunderstood me along.*******You sound so angry as well. Guest knows how to speak. Direct your energies against the real enemies of Islaam. Words to the wise.

Anonymous

2nd May 2006, 03:21 PM

the user id should try to say what i want to do. 5 times prayer per day insallah.although i do not do so everyday.insallah i will.but from my simple knowledge of islam .everything wasnt throwen to do by person or sahaabe should i say at one go.Rather slowly by slowly .insallah i will pray 5 times a day .But to say that i am kafir ?? is not what i am*******(( Esseduhaneleillahailalah We Assehuduennemuhhammedinresullullah ))******* thank you for reminding me of my religiouse duties Sallamunalleykum to all.peace be upon you

Umm Ahmed

17th August 2007, 09:14 PM

This thread really hit a nerve for many people, and it shows that many muslims think its not a huge sin when one abandons the prayer. May Allaah guide the muslims ameen.

Yasir

21st August 2007, 06:34 PM

Is it possible to link to the original article, please? I wasn't able to find a link to it in the thread.

saifullah

13th September 2007, 06:15 PM

just shut it and take heed stop following your desires and pray to Allah for forgiveness those who are against the hadith only follow there desires because they dont pray themselves make a change