Hello from Sister Francesca

[sisterfrancesca]

Hello everyone

My adoptive Italian name is Francesca, and I use this name out of pure gratitude for that country, but I am not Italian, I was born in Britain from a strict South Asian (Sunni) Muslim family.
My parents never really showered me with love, but when I turned 18 they did the unforgivable: they brutally forced me to marry an extremely unpleasant man, a sick control freak who relentlessly abused me for about 6 months, until I fled to a women's hostel, where I threw the hijab into the bin, and then I started eating pork and drinking alcohol.
Meanshile the marriage was declared void in court, then I fled to Italy because my own family and that brute's family were actively trying to locate me.
In Italy I knew a lovely and educated Italian gentleman who would later become my husband.
He is Roman Catholic but he always respected my religious identity and encouraged me to go back to the roots of my faith, to wear hijab and to read the Quran.
Our marriage has been blessed with 4 lovely kids, all brought up as Muslims.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[Umm Ahmed]

Welcome to the forums .

Thats good that your now back to covering ect , but now you need to concentrate on your husband becoming a muslim . I am sure you love him very much, but the biggest gift of all that you can give him is the blessing of Islaam.

[Niqaabis]

As salaam 'alaikum

welcome to the forum

I pray through you joining us here you become a better muslim aameen

If you have any questions please ask as there are many people on this forum who can help you and give you a better understanding of islaam.

Baarak Allaahu feeki

wa salaam 'alaikum

[MosDef]

Hello,

I have heard this same story many times with slightly different detail. I do sympathise with your situation and many families from Asia and elsewhere put their children through this.

It is a sad situation and i do sympathise. Many of my friends from years gone by have been through the same... Welcome and i hope your stay is beneficial.

[al-omari]

My parents never really showered me with love, but when I turned 18 they did the unforgivable: they brutally forced me to marry an extremely unpleasant man, a sick control freak who relentlessly abused me for about 6 months, until I fled to a women's hostel, where I threw the hijab into the bin, and then I started eating pork and drinking alcohol.
Meanshile the marriage was declared void in court, then I fled to Italy because my own family and that brute's family were actively trying to locate me.

This doesn't justify marrying a non-Muslim.

[sisterfrancesca]

This doesn't justify marrying a non-Muslim.

NO ONE CAN TELL ME WHO I CAN MARRY OR NOT, OKAAAYYYY ???

[sisterfrancesca]

Hello,

I have heard this same story many times with slightly different detail. I do sympathise with your situation and many families from Asia and elsewhere put their children through this.

It is a sad situation and i do sympathise. Many of my friends from years gone by have been through the same... Welcome and i hope your stay is beneficial.

Thanks God that you sympathise.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[sisterfrancesca]

Welcome to the forums .

Thats good that your now back to covering ect , but now you need to concentrate on your husband becoming a muslim . I am sure you love him very much, but the biggest gift of all that you can give him is the blessing of Islaam.

That is up to him, Sis.
We have always respected each other.
I cannot force him, actually without him I wouldn't be a Muslimah now, I might be a drunkard drug addict or even dead.
All what I have in this world, my faith, my self esteem etc I owe them to him.

And please be advised that I am NOT the only one in this situation, in fact I know quite a few sisters who have rediscovered their faith after marrying a non-Muslim.
PARADOXICAL BUT TRUE.

Those who don't want to see sisters marrying a non-Muslim must learn to treat them with more respect.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[sisterfrancesca]

As salaam 'alaikum

welcome to the forum

I pray through you joining us here you become a better muslim aameen

If you have any questions please ask as there are many people on this forum who can help you and give you a better understanding of islaam.

Baarak Allaahu feeki

wa salaam 'alaikum

Thanks Sis, much appreciated

Peace

Sister Francesca

[Umm Ahmed]

That is up to him, Sis.
We have always respected each other.
I cannot force him, actually without him I wouldn't be a Muslimah now, I might be a drunkard drug addict or even dead.
All what I have in this world, my faith, my self esteem etc I owe them to him.

And please be advised that I am NOT the only one in this situation, in fact I know quite a few sisters who have rediscovered their faith after marrying a non-Muslim.
PARADOXICAL BUT TRUE.

Those who don't want to see sisters marrying a non-Muslim must learn to treat them with more respect.

Peace

Sister Francesca

But you dont want your husband to go to hell, thats why I advise that you help him towards accepting Islaam , Some of us were non muslims on this forum and can help you in your dawaa.
And forgive me, but as a revert someone leaving their religion because of a bad husband is something alien to me.

[nomad]

Inshallah as your faith grows in islam, you will understand the importance of your beloved ones entering into islam, as if you lost him tomorrow, to know that he will be unable to enter jennah, as a non believer, would be too much for you to bear. I pray if he is a good soul, as you praise him to be, he will be guided to the right religion of islam, and you will be rewarded for your hard work and sacrifices to bring him to islam.

salams nomad

[sisterfrancesca]

And forgive me, but as a revert someone leaving their religion because of a bad husband is something alien to me.

OK, sis, I can quickly explain.
Until the day I entered the hostel, everything had been imposed on me, both by my own family and by that brute's family: praying (in Arabic, without knowing the meaning of what we said), wearing hijab, frequenting only Muslim friends, etc.
So now you can understand that when I had the first taste of freedom in my life I just said: "Oh, the hell with all those restrictions, now I can do what I want".
Simply a reaction to all past injustices (in the name of Islam and family honour) that I had been forced to suffer.

Only many years later, and thanks to my lovely husband, I understood that absolute freedom for the sake of it is not the way.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[Abu_Abdallah]

Inshallah as your faith grows in islam, you will understand the importance of your beloved ones entering into islam, as if you lost him tomorrow, to know that he will be unable to enter jennah, as a non believer, would be too much for you to bear. I pray if he is a good soul, as you praise him to be, he will be guided to the right religion of islam, and you will be rewarded for your hard work and sacrifices to bring him to islam.

salams nomad

Nice said, brother.

I know a lot of Christians, especially devoted ones. If he is a devoted catholic, advise him to read the Qur'an and some introduction books on Islam which are informative (not polemic). Insha'Allah it will interest him so he will find security in Islam as you have re-discovered it.

And make Du'a. May Allah bless you and your relatives.

[sisterfrancesca]

NO ONE CAN TELL ME WHO I CAN MARRY OR NOT, OKAAAYYYY ???

In my life, when I needed crucial help, I got it from non-Muslims.
Where where you when I was suffering physical and mental abuses?
You were not there to help, so now you just drop that judgemental mentality about my own life and marriage, all right?

Peace

Sister Francesca

[sisterfrancesca]

Hi Nomad and Sharif Abu Jafar

thanks for your nice advice, I will try and do my best.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[sisterfrancesca]

Hi Nomad and Sharif Abu Jafar

thanks for your nice advice, I will try and do my best.

Peace

Sister Francesca

Hi again Nomad and Sharif Abu Jafar

BTW, does the Qur'an say that you have to be Sunni ir Shia or other Muslim denomination in order to go to Heaven?
Where does the Qur'an say that all non-Muslims will go to hell?

Gee, I simply cannot see people like Mahatma Gandhi, Nelson Mandela and Desmond Tutu going to hell.

Please explain me

Peace

Sister Francesca

[salafiya]

In my life, when I needed crucial help, I got it from non-Muslims.
Where where you when I was suffering physical and mental abuses?
You were not there to help, so now you just drop that judgemental mentality about my own life and marriage, all right?

Peace

Sister Francesca

Assalam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah

Sister, perhaps you did not meet the right Muslims...I believe the brother was referring to the fact that in Islaam, women are not to marry non-Muslims. I don't think he was trying to be mean, just making you aware of the ruling.

Anyways, I'm happy you joined the forums and are coming closer to Islaam.

As for non-Muslims going to Hell, even if they tried to make the world a better place through encouraged acts (charity, world aid/relief, being kind, etc), the fact remains that they committed the most atrocious and condemned act of all: shirk (associating partners with Allaah). Allaah subhana wa ta'ala, if He wills, can have mercy on everybody EXCEPT those who did not accept and live by the concept of tawheed (Oneness of Allaah). This means that even if I died right now, in the state of Islaam, without asking for forgiveness for the many sins I commit daily, they MAY (but not necessarily will) be forgiven by Allaah. In comparison, one who has heard the message of Islaam but chose not to accept it, no matter how many good things they did (which will NEVER outweigh the evil act of shirk), they will not be forgiven UNLESS they die accepting Islaam.

“And We shall turn to whatever deeds they (disbelievers, polytheists, sinners) did, and We shall make such deeds as scattered floating particles of dust”

[al-Furqaan 25:23 – interpretation of the meaning]

In Saheeh Muslim (214) it is narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “I said, ‘O Messenger of Allaah, during the Jaahiliyyah Ibn Jud’aan used to uphold ties of kinship and feed the poor. Will that avail him anything?’ He said, ‘It will not avail him anything, because he never said one day, “O Lord forgive me my sins on the Day of Judgement,”’” – meaning that he did not believe in the resurrection or do good deeds hoping to meet Allaah.

Conditions of Righteous Deeds (http://islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=21362&ln=eng)

InshaAllaah I have not offended you, as that was not my intention. Alright sister, take care.

Assalam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullah

[green musallah]

Bismillah.

Assalamalaikum,

Peace and blessings be upon you our sister in Islam.

Before I begin, I'd like to echo sister salafiya's comment and apologise if you've been offended in any way. It is a reality that posts on forums can appear to be more crude than people intend, due to the fact they are often short and to the point.

Oh, dear, I simply cannot stop laughing!
You quote me a website from Saudi Arabia, run by a "scholar" who is well known for his EXTREMELY bigoted and narrow-minded views.

Can you think with your own brain? Or did they throw your brain into the
Wahabi washing machine?

Listen, mate, say what you want, I SIMPLY DON'T CARE !!!

When I come across people like you I am even more determined to support Sister Saira and her battle to show the world that Islam is a religion of tolerance and that people like you are the exception rather than the rule.

To move on...reading the above comment I can't help but think you've been influenced by the moderate/progressive ideology of Sheikh BBC and others. What I mean by 'the progressive ideology (http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/23/making-progress-with-the-progressives-sh-yasir-qadhi)' is the view that is commonly propagated that Islam as an theology needs to change, our "backwardness" is a result of our insistence is sticking with a religion that is 1400 years old. That the "interpretations" of the quran/hadith need to be updated in some way in essence to conform to this "enlightened" modern age of freedom, tolerance, democracy, women's rights, technology and any other slogan wielding baton they wish to smash us with.

What I would like to put to you are two points, firstly, this Sky/BBC view of the world is so outrageously short-sighted it belongs in the fictional world of telly tubby land. Can anyone really believe this drug-riddled/pornography-infested/violent/clinically depressed society is the pinnacle of human civilisation? The economic prosperity that the west is so proud of, is in fact a part result of the injustices and atrocities committed by their corrupt governments (iraq/al-yamama/lebanon etc etc). How dare they tell the muslims to reform ... if it wasn't for Muslim thought/science they may still be in their dark ages burning witches at the stakes.

(rant over)

Anyway they chop and change their positions so often, it's hard to keep up. Also, please don't put up Saira Khan as an ambassador for Islam, we need eloquent educated Muslims well versed in the religion.

Secondly, this progressive ideology is in effect regressive in everywhich way shape and form.

Allah, our creator and the controller of all affairs, states in the Quran:

"This day I have perfected for you your faith, and completed My favour upon you, And I am well pleased with Islam as your religion." (5:3).

As a perfect religion it needs nothing added to it nor to taken away from it. It's values, beliefs, morality, rules etc are transcendent and apply today as they did 1400 years ago.

And it is not narrow-mindedness to submit to the commands of our creator as this can is only for our benefit whether in this life or the next.

The best exemplar of this religion was the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) and then those who followed him, the sahaba (his righteous companions). Believe it or not, the religion our Prophet brought was thought to be 'backward' by the society of the time. He destroyed the idols, forbade the killing of female infants, enjoined upon us excellent conduct towards our parents, good treatment of orphans, kind treatment to our wives .... and by Allah's permission he was able to conquer Arabiyyah and in the successive generations the Muslim lands extended from Spain to china.

The point is, we as Muslims regressed when we deviated from Allah's religion and we progressed with his permission when we followed it. Our current woes are as a result of NOT acting according to the Quran and sunnah.

Sister, our religion is a great and noble religion and a way of life - not simply a set of meaningless rules and ritualistic actions. It's summit is to believe that Allah is one and he alone is to be worhipped. I advise you to read the Quran, study the Prophet's biography and learn from his example and conduct. Don't worry about the various sects and groups, stick to the Quran and the words of the Prophet. Finally, I'd just like to say that we are all imperfect beings (myself included) and bound to sin and trip up ... but we should take comfort in the fact that our rabb is oft-forgiving and most merciful.

Sorry if I was overly long or boring, may Allah guide us make us better muslims.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

*P.S. I really don't know why you take offence at the word kafir (an arabic word, a general term for disbeliever derived from the root to hide or to cover up). I suspect you got your info from the cut-and-paste dispatches:undercover mosque sermon. BTW they themselves were guilty of spreading the derogatory term "wahabi". See wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafir) for more.

**see Yasir Qadhi's lecture (linked waay above) for more about progressives

[Abu wakee]

Hummm, sounds like a troll to me.

[MosDef]

more crude than people intend, due to the fact they are often short and to the point.


Reading back now i think i was guilty of this. So il refrain in future Insha'Allah. After reading the other posts i see there is a better way of approaching this subject.

wa alaykum salaam.

[sisterfrancesca]

Reading back now i think i was guilty of this. So il refrain in future Insha'Allah. After reading the other posts i see there is a better way of approaching this subject.

wa alaykum salaam.

Thanks, MosDef

Bismillah.

The point is, we as Muslims regressed when we deviated from Allah's religion and we progressed with his permission when we followed it. Our current woes are as a result of NOT acting according to the Quran and sunnah.



Dear Green Musallah, I understand what you are saying.
You are talking about the Muslim Golden Age.
Everyone who has been even to places like Spain or Sicily can realize that.
Someone in this forum rightly said that while Islamic culture was flourishing and leading the world in Europe they were still burning witches at the stake.
Yes, that is true.
For instance Ibn Rushd is regarded as the father of modern philosophy and modern medicine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Averroes).

But you also have to realize that the main features of the Muslim Golden Age were TOLERANCE (ie Jews and Christians were much happier under the
al-Andalus caliphate than under Ferdinand and Isabella and the Inquisition) and freedom of expression.

Honestly I cannot see how a country like Saudi Arabia can emulate the Muslim Golden Age.
Someone might say that Saudi is a Western ally, blah blah blah, but even if al-Qaeda took over the country I really cannot see how they would make it flourish.
Peace
Sister Francesca

PS: you said that Muslims regressed when they stopped following the Quran: can you please give me an historical example of that?

[MosDef]

Francesca please check these small video clips covering the issue of Marriage & Parents.

HERE (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=43931&posted=1#post43931)

[sisterfrancesca]

Francesca please check these small video clips covering the issue of Marriage & Parents.

HERE (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?p=43931&posted=1#post43931)

Hi MosDef

I have checked the video, thanks a lot.
Again, the situation outlined by Mr Philips (that a Muslim woman will be led away from Islam by a non-Muslim husband) does not apply to me, because it was my husband (and I repeat once again) the one who encouraged me to rediscover my faith and allowed me to raise the kids as Muslims.
I do understand the Quranic rule, and I am the exception that confirms that rule.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[Niqaabis]

because it was my husband (and I repeat once again) the one who encouraged me to rediscover my faith and allowed me to raise the kids as Muslims.


But dont you feel now that he has done this

It’s up to you now to give him da'wah to accept islaam

from what you say about him he seems pretty supportive about your beliefs

have you ever spoken to him about becoming a muslim?

[MosDef]

Yes he must obviously be comfortable with Islaam otherwise he would not allow his children to be raised as Muslims...?

[IbnShaykh]

Bismillah

Just a thought but to those who have contributed to the thread may Allaah reward you for your sincerity and sincere advice. But be wary of such claims the internet is replete with them and one only has to for example use paltalk to see people claiming this type of stuff over and over. Usually it decends into them pushing it further and further before they claim your extremist for not accepting them and then its a cut and paste job to a hate website. Please be careful inshallah.

And to the sister please forgive my above comment, however as said before these types of claims happen often and often backfire on those who advice. Not that I feel your deceptive but it is worth pointing out and for people to excerise caution, here and elesewhere. Some of us see a chance for a good deed and forget the implications.

May Allaah make your affairs easy and guide your partner to Islaam. And may he heal your wounds from past experinces and purify this Ummah of these vile acts of forced marriage and oppression of women.

[Abuz Zubair]

Sister Francesca, why not get your husband to join us here?

[gag order]

But you also have to realize that the main features of the Muslim Golden Age were TOLERANCEat least try to emulate that tolerance by kindly not shouting at members who try to inform you of the islamic stance. NO ONE CAN TELL ME WHO I CAN MARRY OR NOT, OKAAAYYYY ??? capital letters coupled with this 'demeanor' is considered shouting and confrontational, you would do well to avoid peeving and pouting in future:In my life, when I needed crucial help, I got it from non-Muslims.
Where where you when I was suffering physical and mental abuses?
You were not there to help, so now you just drop that judgemental mentality about my own life and marriage, all right?so sorry we werent there for you but kindly refrain from the guilt trip routine...

[defenderofbusharraf]

sisterDesi

the only problem u need to deal with is ur indifference to ur husbands paganistic catholic beliefs.........and kindly get over whateva u been "forced" into doing.........nobody forced u to marry a non beliving catholic ...........i know that many muslimahs would rather be forced into an arranged marriage with a MUSLIM, than marry a catholic BY CHOICE.....

and secondly, many muslims would over ride the fact that u "suffered" whateva with the fact that u chose to marry a kaffir.

instead of posting ur life story on a forum, i suggest u work to convert your husband into a muslim....
.

either way, lemme say again, i personally dont give a monkies about ur past, u married a kaffir, by choice LOL......now what does that say about how highly u place islam in ur life????

later Desi

[Abuz Zubair]

oh no, he's back.

Sister Francesca, try to ignore him.

[green musallah]

sisterDesi

the only problem u need to deal with is ur indifference to ur husbands paganistic catholic beliefs.........and kindly get over whateva u been "forced" into doing.........nobody forced u to marry a non beliving catholic .........i know that many muslimahs would rather be forced into an arranged marriage with a MUSLIM, than marry a catholic BY CHOICE.....

and secondly, many muslims would over ride the fact that u "suffered" whateva with the fact that u chose to marry a Non muslim

instead of posting ur life story on a forum, i suggest u work to convert that non muslim into a muslim....



either way, lemme say again, i personally dont give a monkies about ur past, u married a non muslim by choice LOL......now what does that say about how highly u place islam in ur life????

later Desi

Assalamalaikum,

this comment is extremely extremely unhelpful bro and brings no benefit. These situations should be discussed with tact and dignity. And it really is not possible to figure out a person's intentions from a few posts.

Abu Hurayrah relates that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "Whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should speak a good word or remain silent. And whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should show hospitality to his neighbor. And whoever believes in Allah and the Last Day should show hospitality to his guest." [Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim]


The situation as I understand it is that the sister has had a really difficult past marraige and her muslim family was not helpful. She married a non-muslim, while she was not practising and now she is beginning to learn more about her deen (from little/no prior knowledge). This has not been easy for her by anyones yardstick, we should be true exemplars of Muslim conduct when dealing with such matters.

Personally my feeling is that her situation with her husband not being a muslim, should not even have been mentioned. It is a subsiduary issue, first establishment of firm aqeedah, salah, zakah ...... u get the point (no seriously, this is the established sunnah in dawah).

This really is a superb Islamic forum, full of knowledgable muslims and muslimahs. Please don't spoil things by turning way earnest people by ill-thought words. Even if the sister is a troll (and I humbly disagree), other people are reading ur words too ......

[Yasir]

wa'alaikum as-salaam,

Welcome to the forum Sister Francesca.
It's distressing to read about some of the hardships you have suffered in the past. I pray that Allah relieves you - and us all - from our problems, and grants us goodness in this world and the hereafter.

وَمَن يَتَّقِ اللَّهَ يَجْعَل لَّهُ مَخْرَجًا وَيَرْزُقْهُ مِنْ حَيْثُ لَا يَحْتَسِبُ وَمَن يَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللَّهِ فَهُوَ حَسْبُهُ
"... And whosoever fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, He will make a way for him to get out (from every difficulty). And He will provide him from (sources) he never could imagine. And whosoever puts his trust in Allah, then He will suffice him..."

DefenderofHaq, don't be so judgemental. After all, given the content of some of your posts in the past, the same question could be put to you - "What does that say about how highly u place islam in ur life????"

[defenderofbusharraf]

lol, yasir i have never posted anything that indicates i devalue islam, quite the opposite insha allah....

so anyway lets talk about giving one the benfit of the doubt and looking at the apparent.
ok so this sisterDesi, who is a fornicator according to islamic shariah, as the marriage of a muslimah to a kaffir is totally void in islam and not legtimate.....and the 4 children she has mentioned r illegitimate children in the eyes of the shariah.......so working from this basic fact, lets go back to wen sisterdesi married that najis kaffir, ok so a muslim shud give her the benfit of the doubt fine (i wouldnt, as she is commiting a major sin by indulging in haram sexual relations as the marriage is void), but anyway, lets give the benfit of the doubt, that maybe while improving her islam, she might ATTEMPT to discuss her faith with that kaffir husband, ok so benefit of the doubt given.....now, first illegitimate child comes along, ok benefit of the doubt given, now second illegitimate child comes along, as a muslim one starts to wonder hmmmmmm okkkkkkk, this is gettin a bit too deep, but ok for arguments sake lets give the benfit of the doubt, now third child comes along, and a muslim would start thinkin, come on gal, 3rd child now and u still married to a kaffir? where is the desire and sincerity to change?......but ok, benefit of doubt still given...........now 4th child comes along, muslim is like WHAT THE??????:confused:

there comes a point wen the apparent takes over, as a muslim u dont wallow in naivety and being guillable..........so instead of taking about someones intentions, u gotta start to see the practical actions lol.....4 children and u still married to a kaffir? not one kid, nah, not 2 kids no,,,, not 3 kids nope, but 4 kids!!!!!.......now u tell me, what does that show? a muslimah having 4 illegitimate kids with a kaffir......what does that show about her valuing of islam????..........and all this is supposed to be coming from a person who says that their kaffir husband helped her to "re discover" the faith........LOL, sisterdesi, the only thing that u re discovered is oppression, although in a different form from ur first husband...........ur present najis kaffir husband (who is not ur husband according to islamic shariah, he is ur lover) has led u away it seems from islam, and has made u indifferent to the islamic faith, and has blurred for u the distingushing lines between the truth and falsehood....may Allah swt save u from ur life of sin.....

i told my sister about ur case yesterday, lol, and onl today she told me that she was discussing it with a sister who used to work on the muslim womens helpline in london and the counselling service....and this sister said that in 8 years of her work with them, NOT ONCE did she ever encounter an abused oppressed muslimah ever getting a divorce and then ending up marrying a kaffir.......in fact, she was saying that most ended up re marrying THROUGH ARRANGED MARRIAGES......AGAIN.....can u believe that? these sisters were oppressed and abused due to frced arranged marriages and they ended up marrying again OUT OF THEIR OWN CHOICE through arranged marriages again.......that shows u that muslimahs WOULD NOT EVEN THINK OR DREAM about marrying a kaffir.......and wen ma sister told her friend about the fact that u have 4 illegitimate children with ur lover, she just felt so sorry for u......and i feel sorry for u too, cuz its not just the fact that u have been living a life of fornication and having illegitimate children, its also the fact that u r indfferent to it and from ur posts on here, u arrogantly glorify it....

ur a true psychoooo:eek: ........scary......some weird people out there......lol, truely human beings can be weird creatures wen they r slaves to their own nafs, rather than slaves of the Lord......

[defenderofbusharraf]

lol, oh yea, and anyway.....i do think this sisterdesi is troll.......

ok sure there r cases of muslim women being abused in marriage, just like in any community, but how many do u know start eating pork and drinking alcohol? lol.........come on sisterdesi, u need to try a lot harder than that,......

anyway, i think i saw a request from the father of this forum to bring ur husband on here.....so why dont u bring him up on here if u r for real........

[Yasir]

as the marriage of a muslimah to a kaffir is totally void in islam and not legtimate.....and the 4 children she has mentioned r illegitimate children in the eyes of the shariah.......And you're free from sinning, right?

[defenderofbusharraf]

lol, brother yasir, pls do not nit pick just for the sake of argument......truely none of us r free from sinning...but in islam, there r different levels of sins, and the sin of this sisterDesi is in no way comparable to what the average muslim joe would do, whateva that may be..........lol, so pls try and NOT be silly.........its like if one says to a kaffir, u r commiting shirk! and another comes along and says to that muslim........and u r free from sin????

lol, what the hell does what i do or dont do have to do with whats established in islam? whats right is right, whats wrong is wrong.....that can never change.......

anyways, lets hear from this troll..

[Abuz Zubair]

defenderofidiocy, where do you live? plz pm me your address.

[morbius]

Francesca, this is a forum that gathers hard-core militarist Muslims (jihad, jihad and more jihad). They are never going to be pleased with you unless you get your husband to convert.
Maybe you should go to some of the forums where more moderate Muslims hang out. I think you would find their views more to your liking.

[Umm Ahmed]

Your lying Morbius , there is no gathering of hardcore militarists here.

[defenderofbusharraf]

defenderofidiocy, where do you live? plz pm me your address.

and why do u want my home address meri jaan?? wanna come round for some homemade tikka and handmade naan??
instead, i know a good halal place in slough west london, good sheesh kababs there, come out and ill buy u one:)

[IbnShaykh]

defenderofidiocy, where do you live? plz pm me your address.

Bismillah

:D :D :D

[cili]

defender of ?haqq??

Did the Prophet saw not teach Hikmah ?

Isn't Islam a whole package which comes with Akhlaaq, Rifq and Hikmah ?

Didn't the Prophet saw act more sternly on Mu'aazh but admonished the Beduin who urinated in the masjid in a very tactful manner?

[defenderofbusharraf]

thank u for ur 40 rhetorical questions, but i am not google.

[defenderofbusharraf]

and where is this ignorant sisterDesi.......this woman who is married to a kaffir......and so proudly proclaims it.

.........who when shown that Allah swt has forbidden a muslimah to marry a kaffir, all she can come out with is I DONT CARE, MY ISLAM IS TOLERANCE............lol...............ahhhh, yet another mentally enslaved product of an identity crisis..........

[green musallah]

Assalamalaikum,

what's ur Islam??? Please elaborate as it's different to the majority of people on this forum.

dear admins/mods - would some sort of ban be in order? (rule A1 no least - it's for his own good anyway).

[gag order]

may be just this once defenderofhaq may have a point?

(although he could bring it up in a more befitting manner)

[Abuz Zubair]

I think defenderofhaq is a complete idiot. If there is one person I would love to ban is him, more than mika and morbius. Reason being that Mika and Morbius do not claim to represent Islam and Muslims and hence no harm in what they say and how they say it.

This crazy 'medical student' on the other hand is a liability because of what he says and how he says it, he does a complete disservice to Islamic cause.

No one is saying that it is halal for a Muslim woman to marry a kafir.

The point I highlighted earlier which doesn't seem to go through his thick head, is what to do with the situation at hand. You see, it is precisely because of this idiocy, childish attitude and extremism that we get ppl like Shaykh Juday' legitimising for a Muslim woman to remain married to a Kafir.

Mika, despite of his stupidity, raised a very important question about our kids turning around to inform us that they are homos. It's all fine and dandy to inform them of the capital punishment in Sharia, but in our circumstances and where we live, it certainly isn't a solution. So you have a problem at hand, how do you effectively solve it?

May Allah protect all the patients from this nutty professor.

[defenderofbusharraf]

I think defenderofhaq is a complete idiot. If there is one person I would love to ban is him, more than mika and morbius. Reason being that Mika and Morbius do not claim to represent Islam and Muslims and hence no harm in what they say and how they say it.

This crazy 'medical student' on the other hand is a liability because of what he says and how he says it, he does a complete disservice to Islamic cause.

No one is saying that it is halal for a Muslim woman to marry a kafir.

The point I highlighted earlier which doesn't seem to go through his thick head, is what to do with the situation at hand. You see, it is precisely because of this idiocy, childish attitude and extremism that we get ppl like Shaykh Juday' legitimising for a Muslim woman to remain married to a Kafir.

Mika, despite of his stupidity, raised a very important question about our kids turning around to inform us that they are homos. It's all fine and dandy to inform them of the capital punishment in Sharia, but in our circumstances and where we live, it certainly isn't a solution. So you have a problem at hand, how do you effectively solve it?

May Allah protect all the patients from this nutty professor.

dear abuz zubair, what a sad lying limp impotent oh and pathetic snake u r.......
i would rather be harsh, yet tell the truth according to islam, than be "gentle" and "nice" and come out with complete nonsense.......delivering the truth takes priority over the way u say whateva u say, and especially so when u r dealing with an arrogant liar such as sisterdesi who is belittling the islamic perspective on the issue....

sadly, its a common theme throughout the majority of ur posts abuz zubair, u truely r impotent when pressed upon issues and asked to put forward a view etc etc.......and u do it all in the name of "islam is the middle way".....lol .......
i have more respect for someone like Break the Cross, who i am diametrically opposed to, but at least he has a stance and position on something, and u know where u stand with him........but with u, u r limp and come out with some load of jack like "oh it depends on the circumstances".......and then u try and intellectualise that...............i can see u coming from a mile off u desi.....

in the future, dont u dare be so indifferent to something, especially when islam has commented upon it.....comprende?

[Intoodeep]

defenderof haq..

Ur too harsh, they are right..we can talk about punishments etc, but so what, can you implement them??

Its clear that for whatever reason this person didnt have the sort of islamic education/upbringing we may have had. Why not instead start at the basics and move your way up. Thats the only way to change someone in the west isnt it. U should be the first one to say that as you are the guys who constantly drone on about 'Tarbiyyah and Tasfiyyah' where is that now?

Also why go on about the persons past? whats that going to achieve. Many people are worse and would never end up in places like this as they arent looking to rectify themselves in the first place. If someone walks to you, run to them. Seek reward by guiding them back to the straight path.

[gag order]

defenderofhaq live up to your namesake and save your harshness for the infidel trolls who come here and please spare the muslims...

[Turaabie]

defender.... You are one rude person. Subhaan-Allaah. Learn some manners for the sake of Allaah.

[abu_ibrahim]

Some people don't need to state the obvious, do you think putting her down will somehow convince her? She's already taken the first step and registered on a Islamic forum, which suggests that her conscious could be troubling her and she wants answers.

[cili]

This defenderof haqq is a really ignorant person. He probably has never read anything on Usuul Al Fiqh. Islam and MUslim scholars throughout the ages have recognized the principle of Irtikaab akhoff ad dhorurayn (taking the lesser evil)

This sister is a Muslim despite having committed some major sin most probably due to her lack of knowledge and inadequate upbringing. This sister will in sha Allah enter Jannah if she dies upon tawheed and Allah forgives her.

Are u defender of ?haqq trying to make this sister hate ISlam and leave the Deen altogether ?

Is riddah/apostasy a lesser evil than marrying a non MUslim ? The answer is definitely NO unless you are a Khaariji or a supporter of Khaarijite ideas.

[cili]

Abu Musa, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
When the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) deputized any of his Companions on a mission, he would say: Give tidings (to the people); do not create (in their minds) aversion (towards religion); show them leniency and do not be hard upon them.

Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]: 3262

[nomad]

lol, brother yasir, pls do not nit pick just for the sake of argument......truely none of us r free from sinning...but in islam, there r different levels of sins, and the sin of this sisterDesi is in no way comparable to what the average muslim joe would do, whateva that may be..........lol, so pls try and NOT be silly.........its like if one says to a kaffir, u r commiting shirk! and another comes along and says to that muslim........and u r free from sin????

lol, what the hell does what i do or dont do have to do with whats established in islam? whats right is right, whats wrong is wrong.....that can never change.......

anyways, lets hear from this troll..

Are you for real? The act of having a christian husband does not take you out of islam. I wonder where you live in the world to be able to say such things? I havent been there thats for sure.

[sisterfrancesca]

Are you for real? The act of having a christian husband does not take you out of islam. I wonder where you live in the world to be able to say such things? I havent been there thats for sure.

Thanks, Nomad, I think that I didn't make myself clear in my previous messages, or I didn't explain myself enough.
Now I will try a bit harder.

It was a winter in the late 80's in Northern Italy, in a town in the Pianura Padana (Po Valley) notorious for long, cold, damp, and foggy winters, surely a million miles away from the Italian stereotype of eternally shining sun and wonderful weather.
I was working there as a humble waitress, with little education in English, no education at all in Italian and virtually no prospects of getting out of that dead end job.
I was essentially stranded in a foreign country, in whose language I could barely string together 2 words or I could hardly say a sentence without a grammar mistake, totally cut off from the rest of my family, totally devoid of any kind of religious faith.
I drank alcohol a lot, I ate pork, I also flirted with cannabis but I absolutely hated men, I thought that all of them were swine and I was positive that I would never get married or never have a man for the rest of my life.
In a few words, I was an extremely vulnerable person.
At that time my husband was a young but accomplished professional (engineer), snapped up by a blue-chip company well before getting his degree, but his success never went to his head.
He was a regular client at the restaurant where I was working.
Due to my poor understanding of the Italian language, once I got his order wrong.
It had happened before with other clients, and when they complained my boss would usually address me with a "nice" v-word (the Italian equivalent of the English f-word), if not worse.
But this man was different: he had heard my boss scream at me before, smiled and told me first in Italian then in English not to worry, and ate up what I served him.
Few days later at the end of my shift I was waiting for the bus; it was raining very heavily, and I didn't have any umbrella with me.
I was getting really soaked.
Then a car stopped right there, and he got out of the car and politely asked me if he could give me a lift home.
I accepted, and that is where it all started.

Basically I was the worthless urchin and he was the knight in shining armour.

Almost 20 years later I have under my belt a degree (in business and finance), with a second degree (in environmental sciences) on the way, and needless to say I no longer feel a worthless outsider, but a valued member of the Italian society.
MOST IMPORTANT OF ALL, I HAVE FOUND AGAIN MY MUSLIM FAITH !!!
And this for sure was NOT thanks to those people in this forum who would like to stone me to death !!!
I don't like talking about those things, but if this does not get the message across, I frankly don't know what does.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[sisterfrancesca]

Assalamu Alaikum bros and sis
Uh, I have just noticed that defenderofhaq has been banned.
Extremely sorry about that, I feel it was a bit my fault, I didn't mean it to happen.
However people like him must get their heads round the fact that we live in a paradoxical world and that sometimes we can regain our faith thanks to people who live outside it.

After all, do you remember a certain story about the Prophet?
Do you remember that when he was about 40 years old, and had just received the first visit from the angel Jibril, he was initially scared and less than enthusiastic to go along with it?
The one who convinced him to do so was Waraqah, his wife's cousin and, wait ..... a Christian !!!

And do you remember that when his followers were cruelly persecuted it was the Christian king of Ethiopia the one who saved the day for them?

Do I need to say more?

Peace
Sister Francesca

[Abuz Zubair]

Well, I commend you for taking your first step and joining us here. We're all glad that Allah has finally showed you the way. What would be ideal is for you to share with your husband what you've discovered yourself. I am sure over a period of time you will grow in your faith and understanding, which will continue to shape your life, your views and the way you live/think.

As I said earlier, it would be nice to get your husband to register here as well.

'Defender' guy was banned for his continuous abusive and extremely offensive behaviour. He might even be mentally ill, so we can all ignore his posts.

What's important is for us to realise what Allah says in the Quran that there are a lot of things in this world we like, which aren't necessarily good for us, yet there are other things we dislike and they are good for us. For this reason Islam is called Islam - i.e. submitting to the will of God - to allow God to change you into a better person, and not to dictate to God what makes one a better person.

Anyway, continue to post and do not be discouraged by not-so-friendly posters. We have a policy here 'free for all', so we allow every to say what they want, which is why we have to bear the brunt of ppl like 'defender' and others. But as I mentioned, he has only be banned due to his excessive use of offensive words/sentences, in spite of being warned several times and banned previously. He had just come back after serving a month's ban, and I guess he didn't learn much. Now he's got two months ban.

[sisterfrancesca]

Hi Abuz Zubair et al

Sorry for the late posting: recently I have been extremely busy, and also I have often found this website "down", so I was unable to log in.


As I said earlier, it would be nice to get your husband to register here as well.


Thanks a million for your concern, Abuz Zubair

My husband, now a senior engineering consultant, is extremely busy.
As to his religion, he is Catholic IN NAME ONLY, but he does not practise, and is not really bothered by religious issues.
Furthermore, he will never change his view that all religions in this world are just different paths that eventually lead to the same summit: God.
Believe me, I know him very well.
Anyway, it's his life.


What's important is for us to realise what Allah says in the Quran that there are a lot of things in this world we like, which aren't necessarily good for us, yet there are other things we dislike and they are good for us. For this reason Islam is called Islam - i.e. submitting to the will of God - to allow God to change you into a better person, and not to dictate to God what makes one a better person.


Uh? I don't feel I have ever tried to dictate anything to God.
I strongly feel that all what happened to me in my life is because God wanted it to happen.
Actually, quite often I really feel like an uprooted small plant carried away by a raging river.

Now, as soon I have time (and the right inspiration) I will open a new thread.

Peace

Sister Francesca

[salafiya]

Furthermore, he will never change his view that all religions in this world are just different paths that eventually lead to the same summit: God.
Believe me, I know him very well.
Anyway, it's his life.



You never know. :)

'Umar radiAllaahu anhu was a staunch hater of Islaam, but he not only became a Muslim, he became a very close companion of RasoolAllaah sal Allaahu 'alayhi wa sallam. Not only that, but he was the second leader of the Muslim world (well technically third 1. Prophet saws 2. Abu Bakr 3. 'Umar). Not only this, but his daughter married the beloved Nabi saws. I can go on and on with the "not only....but", but I think you get the point (which is even the person you would think most unlikely of becoming Muslim CAN become a Muslim).

Guidance is through Allaah. He guides whom He wills.

[gag order]

After all, do you remember a certain story about the Prophet?
Do you remember that when he was about 40 years old, and had just received the first visit from the angel Jibril, he was initially scared and less than enthusiastic to go along with it?
The one who convinced him to do so was Waraqah, his wife's cousin and, wait ..... a Christian !!! interesting that you should cite this as it is often used by critics who argue that sympathetic christians helped muhammed (saw) to develop islam as opposed to revelation?

And do you remember that when his followers were cruelly persecuted it was the Christian king of Ethiopia the one who saved the day for them? there are numerous citations that he had converted to islam and this was well before the handful of persecuted muslims were ordered home...

[Mu'awiya]

Asalaamu alaikum (peace be upon you) sister.


After all, do you remember a certain story about the Prophet?
Do you remember that when he was about 40 years old, and had just received the first visit from the angel Jibril, he was initially scared and less than enthusiastic to go along with it?
The one who convinced him to do so was Waraqah, his wife's cousin and, wait ..... a Christian !!!


He became Muslim. :)



And do you remember that when his followers were cruelly persecuted it was the Christian king of Ethiopia the one who saved the day for them?


Al-Najaashi - the Negus also became Muslim. :) So you see that these people were kind to the believers, yes they were Christians - but they became Muslim due to Allaah knowing their goodness and the believers praying for their guidance, while calling them to Islaam.

So did your husband give you refuge by the will of Allaah? Yes. Did the Negus give refuge to the Prophets companions? Yes. Did Negus become Muslim? Yes. Did your husband become Muslim? Insha Allaah soon.



Alhamdulillah.

[mika]

Hi Sister Francesca,

I also wellcome you on the forum.

I think it is really great that you as muslim women first of all love your husban, respect his religion, and most important, you do not demand that he change his religion.

If all muslims were like you, and accepted that religion is a personal choise the do not need to come in between two people, if they love each other, we would have a lot less conflicts in the world.

Hopefully your view of life will inspire a lot of yong muslim people in this forum.

Mixed marriges across religions, is the way ahead,

BR
Mika

[gag order]

thanks mika that was quite thoughtful of you ;)

[Mu'awiya]

Nah something which mika doesn't realise is that christian's aren't permitted to marry outside their religion either. So in reality, mika isn't even a Christian. Rather he/she is one who has left the fold of their religion, therefore an apostate, and according to his/her scripture, should be stoned to death? :eek:


the details?
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=46614&postcount=29

[Umm Ahmed]

All people will tolerate someone who is not fully practicing , but when one's beliefs start to manifest itself in ones actions and speech it's a different kettle of fish , even amongst Muslims never mind from a different faith.

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

I Love Your Perspectives, Sister Francesca. It is My Belief that Everyone goes to Heaven. I Believe that Allaah is Big Enough to Accommodate Everybody. Everybody is So Valuable. In the past We have attacked the weakest link. Now We are Building Up. The Conservatives Are Protecting Pearls. The Progressives are Creating New Pearls. We All Need Each Other. Just Imagine the Pearls We Will Have When Our Ancestors Are Resurrected!!! How I Look Forward to Resurrection Time.

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

We Are Participating In A World Change, A Change That Will Value Everyone, And Will Provide To The Weaker Members Of Our World Society What They Need. It Is So Exciting!!! It's Bringing On That Resurrection Time.

[Stuck in Prison]

AssalaamoAlaikum guys. Do you not feel it's strange for a "sister" to introduce herself and then tell her life story all within her introduction thread and show her love for chirsitians/non muslims and putting on the accusations of where were YOU MUSLIMS. CHristians were there for me not you kind of attitude.

If that's not to create controversy and fitnah I dont know what is? You're all arguing in this thread. I guess the fitnah was created successfully eh!?!

BE wary of the internet. I find her posts well strange.

[gag order]

I think it is really great that you as muslim women first of all love your husban, respect his religion, and most important, you do not demand that he change his religion.you are such a hypocrite! elsewhere on this forum, you made it no secret that you do not respect islam and not only that but you demand we change our religion?

[gag order]

It is My Belief that Everyone goes to Heaven.you forgot to mention: "even those who do not believe in it"

:D

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Yes, Future Heaven Is A Reality For Everyone. I so often think of Those Who Do; Those Who don't have time to Think and Pray, like We Do. How Worthy They Are! Where would We be without Them? The Benefits Of What We Do Must Include Them, As What They Do Includes Us. We Are All A Universal Team. Each Member Is So Precious.

It's Wonderful To Exchange With You, Lifting! I Love Your Pseudonym. Communications Are Improving So We Are Not laboring under the 'gag order' that Our previous primitive state dictated. We Are Moving Forward! Everything Gets Better And Better Every Day In Every Way.

Unconditional Positive Regard,
William

[gag order]

i like the way you write so much but mean so little ;)

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Your Compliment Is Well Taken, Lifting. You Lift ME, Too!

[IbnShaykh]

Bismillah

william may I ask can I have some of what you are? Cmon it is eid!:D

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Ibn, What You See In Me Is In You! Otherwise You wouldn't Recognize It even if It came up and bit You on the behind!

Many Thanks and Blessings,
William

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Dear Friends,

I saw a Wonderful quote a couple of weeks ago: If You have an apple and I have an orange and We exchange, We Each still have only one fruit. However, if We Exchange Ideas, We Each Have Two Ideas!! I Love It. The Exchange Of Ideas Is So Important To Our Survival And Prosperity!! May I never be guilty of withholding an Idea! Ameen.

All The Best,
William

[Magoo]

im glad someone has started to try and engage william in conversation..

whats going on william, sometimes you make no sense dude, honestly?

[Hamza]

i like the way you write so much but mean so little ;)

:D..........

[gag order]

I saw a Wonderful quote a couple of weeks ago: If You have an apple and I have an orange and We exchange, We Each still have only one fruit. However, if We Exchange Ideas, We Each Have Two Ideas!! I Love It. hmm, quite profound when its not your own words ;)

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

im glad someone has started to try and engage william in conversation..

whats going on william, sometimes you make no sense dude, honestly?
I Suggest That, if something irritates One, It Is Best To Go On About Your Day, Your Other Tasks, instead of dwelling on the irritation.

I Bless And Admire You.
William

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

:D..........

I Am Happy That What I Say is meaningless to Some. That Means That What I Say Is Overly Familiar. YAY!!

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

hmm, quite profound when its not your own words ;)

I Envision You As A Good Chess Player!!

[AbuAliTheRoman]

Yes, Future Heaven Is A Reality For Everyone. I so often think of Those Who Do; Those Who don't have time to Think and Pray, like We Do. How Worthy They Are! Where would We be without Them? The Benefits Of What We Do Must Include Them, As What They Do Includes Us. We Are All A Universal Team. Each Member Is So Precious.

It's Wonderful To Exchange With You, Lifting! I Love Your Pseudonym. Communications Are Improving So We Are Not laboring under the 'gag order' that Our previous primitive state dictated. We Are Moving Forward! Everything Gets Better And Better Every Day In Every Way.

Unconditional Positive Regard,
William

Hi Will.

I see you have a theory, so where is the proof for it?

Abu Alee

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Hi Will.

I see you have a theory, so where is the proof for it?

Abu Alee
Dear Abu Alee,

The Proof For It Is The Same Proof For The Existence Of Allaah: My Heart And My Mind. It Arises Out Of My Need And That Alone. I have no other proof.

Your Brother,
Will

[William Wurkmun Fosterr]

Dear Friends,

If Blessing is meaningless then I Am totally meaningless because I Am Totally About Loving, Blessing, And Appreciating Allaah And His Universe And EveryOne/Everything In It.

One Of My Favorite Jokes And then I'm outta here for awhile: The receptionist went in to see the doctor and said, "Doctor, there's a man out in the waiting room who says he's the Invisible Man." The doctor said, "Tell him I can't see him."

Thanks For Your Attention! Some Day Soon We Will ALL Be Dancing In The Streets!!