Originally Posted by umar_Alsalafi</p>
Salam Alikum Wa Rahmatullah</p>
Tawassul has been discussed (with all those ahadeeths which supporters of tawassul quote) in detail elsewhere.</p>
I shall provide some links to those threads for those who are intreseted</p>
Tawassul </p>
http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=11291&highlight=tawassul (http://forums.almaghrib.org/showthread.php?t=11291&highlight=tawassul)</p>
</p>
why sheikh did not answer this which is on the soofee's blog?</p>
</p><div align="left"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 130%"><span style="COLOR: #009900">Shabib and the Hadith of the Man in Need</span> </span>
What follows is a summary from all that has already been mentioned [with some other additional useful points] by our shaykh GF Haddad, and brother which was posted on SF regarding the reliability of Shabib [Abu Sa`id Shabib ibn Sa`id al-Basri al-Habti al-Tamimi] which is critical to the issue of the authenticity of the Hadith of the Man in Need. [I have not taken it upon myself on this occasion to discuss the other issues brought up by those who have falsely labeled the hadith weak]
We will deal with the sanad of two versions primarily:
1) The narrators of Tabarani’s version are as follows:
<span style="COLOR: #000099">From Ibn Wahb from Shabib from Rauh ibn al-Qàsim from Abu Ja‘far al-Khatami al-Madani from Abu Umamah ibn Sahl ibn Hunaif: ‘Uthmàn ibn Hunaif
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2) Imam al-Bayhaqi in Dalà ’ilu’l-Nubuwah reports the hadith with the following sanad:
<span style="COLOR: #000099">Ya‘qub ibn Sufyan who said that Ahmad ibn Shabib ibn Sa‘id reported to me that his father [Shabib] reported to him from Rauh ibn al-Qàsim from Abu Ja‘far al-Khatami from Abu Usamah ibn Sahl ibn Hunaif that a man was going to ‘Uthmàn ibn ‘Affàn and he mentioned the story in its entirety.</span>
[Take note: Imam Bayhaqi’s chain does not contain the narrator Ibn Wahb]
Here is the exact wording from al-Bayhaqi’s Dala’il (no. 2417) with highlighting of what was mentioned above in point no. 2:
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أخبرنا أبو سعيد عبد الملك بن أبي عثمان الزاهد ، رحمه الله ، أنبأنا الإمام أبو بكر محمد بن علي بن إسماعيل الشاشي القفال ، قال : أنبأنا أبو عروبة ، حدثنا العباس بن الفرج ، حدثنا إسماعيل بن شبيب ، حدثنا أبي ، عن روح بن القاسم ، عن أبي جعفر المديني ، عن أبي أمامة بن سهل بن حنيف أن رجلا كان يختلف إلى عثمان بن عفان رضي الله عنه في حاجته ، وكان عثمان لا يلتفت إليه ولا ينظر في حاجته ، فلقي عثمان بن حنيف فشكى إليه ذلك ، فقال له عثمان بن حنيف : ائت الميضأة فتوضأ ، ثم ائت المسجد فصل ركعتين ، ثم قل : اللهم إني أسألك وأتوجه إليك بنبيك محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم نبي الرحمة ، يا محمد إني أتوجه بك إلى ربي فتقضي لي حاجتي ، واذكر حاجتك ، ثم رح حتى أرفع ، فانطلق الرجل وصنع ذلك ، ثم أتى باب عثمان بن عفان رضي الله عنه ، فجاء البواب ، فأخذ بيده فأدخله على عثمان ، فأجلسه معه على الطنفسة ، فقال : انظر ما كانت لك من حاجة ، ثم إن الرجل خرج من عنده فلقي عثمان بن حنيف ، فقال له : جزاك الله خيرا ما كان ينظر في حاجتي ولا يلتفت إلي حتى كلمته ، فقال عثمان بن حنيف : ما كلمته ولكني سمعت رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وجاءه ضرير فشكى إليه ذهاب بصره فقال له النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم : " أوتصبر ؟ " ، فقال : يا رسول الله ، ليس لي قائد ، وقد شق علي " ، فقال : " ائت الميضأة فتوضأ ، وصل ركعتين ثم قل : اللهم ، إني أسألك وأتوجه إليك بنبيك نبي الرحمة ، يا محمد إني أتوجه بك إلى ربي فيجلي لي عن بصري ، اللهم شفعه في وشفعني في نفسي " قال عثمان : فوالله ما تفرقنا طال بنا الحديث حتى دخل الرجل كأن لم يكن به ضرر ، وقد رواه أحمد بن شبيب ، عن سعيد ، عن أبيه أيضا بطوله . <span style="COLOR: #ff0000">أخبرنا أبو علي الحسن بن أحمد بن إبراهيم بن شاذان ، أنبأنا عبد الله بن جعفر بن درستويه ، حدثنا يعقوب بن سفيان ، حدثنا أحمد بن شبيب بن سعيد ، فذكره بطوله</span> . وهذه زيادة ألحقتها به في شهر رمضان سنة أربع وأربعين ، ورواه أيضا هشام الدستوائي ، عن أبي جعفر ، عن أبي أمامة بن سهل ، عن عمه وهو عثمان بن حنيف
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">The salafis have attempted to weaken these chains due to the presence in it of Shabib [ibn Sa‘id al-Tamimi al-Habati al-Basri] so it is important that we clarify his status amongst the scholars of Hadith.
The problem the Salafis have with this narrator as I can ascertain from reading shaykh al-Albani’s book on Tawassul is as follows:
They believe him to be a weak narrator from memory and his hadith are rejected unless, they claim, his narrations are from his book which he narrated from Yunus and his son in turn narrated from him. So, according to the Salafis, unless the chain containing Shabib is: [ Ahmad -> Shabib -> Yunus ] the hadith containing Shabib are all weak.
InshaAllah we shall expose the error in this claim and prove that it is not supported by any of the Ulema.
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 100%; COLOR: #993399">SECTION 1:
</span>
First, let us look at the authentication [ta’dil] of Shabib amongst the Ulema:
[My thanks to Sh. Abul Hasan for providing me the quotes]
Ibn Hajar in Tahdhib al-Tahdhib (vol. 4, no. 534) mentioned Shabib as follows:
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[ 534 ] خ خد س البخاري وأبي داود في الناسخ والمنسوخ والنسائي شبيب بن سعيد التميمي الحبطي أبو سعيد البصري روى عن أبان بن أبي عياش وروح بن القاسم ويونس بن يزيد الأيلي وغيره وعنه بن وهب ويحيى بن أيوب وزيد بن بشر الحضرمي وابنه أحمد بن شبيب قال بن المديني ثقة كان يختلف في تجارة إلى مصر وكتابه كتاب صحيح وقال أبو زرعة لا بأس به وقال أبو حاتم كان عنده كتب يونس بن زيد وهو صالح الحديث لا بأس به وقال النسائي ليس به بأس وقال بن عدي ولشبيب نسخة الزهري عنده عن يونس عن الزهري أحاديث مستقيمة وحدث عنه بن وهب بأحاديث مناكير وذكره بن حبان في الثقات قلت وقال بن يونس في تاريخ الغرباء مات بالبصرة سنة ست وثمانين ومائة فيما ذكره البخاري وقال الدارقطني ثقةونقل بن خلفون توثيقه عن الذهلي ولما ذكره بن عدي وقال الكلام المتقدم قال بعده ولعل شبيبا لما قدم مصر في تجارته كتب عنه بن وهب من حفظه فغلط ووهم وأرجو أن لا يتعمد الكذب وإذا حدث عنه ابنه أحمد فكأنه شبيب آخر يعني يجود وقال الطبراني في الأوسط ثقة
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">Shabib in Ta’rikh al-Kabir of Imam al-Bukhari (vol. 4)</span>
[ 2628 ] شبيب بن سعيد نا يونس بن يزيد وعن محمد بن عمر روى عنه عبد الله بن وهب وابنه أحمد البصري
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">Shabib ibn Sa’eed in Thiqat of Ibn Hibban</span>
[ 13614 ] شبيب بن سعيد الحبطي أبو سعيد من أهل مصر يروى عن محمد بن عمرو ويونس بن يزيد الأيلي روى عنه بن وهب وابنه أحمد بن شبيب وهو الذي يروى عن شعبة وروح بن القاسم
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">Shabib in al Jarh wa Ta’dil (4/359, no. 1572) of Ibn Abi Hatim al Razi</span>
[ 1572 ]
شبيب بن سعيد أبو سعيد التميمي والد أحمد بن شبيب بن سعيد البصري
روى عن روح بن القاسم ويونس بن يزيد ومحمد بن عمرو
روى عنه عبد الله بن وهب وابنه أحمد بن شبيب بن سعيد سمعت أبى يقول ذلك وسألته عنه فقال كان عنده كتب يونس بن يزيد وهو صالح الحديث لا بأس به نا عبد الرحمن قال سمعت أبا زرعة يقول شبيب بن سعيد لا باس به بصرى كتب عنه بن وهب بمصر
<span style="COLOR: #990000"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">From the above it can be collated that the following made Tawthiq on Shabib :</span>
</span>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">Ibn al-Madini said: Thiqa – Trustworthy
Abu Zur’a: La Ba’sa bi-hi – There is no harm in him
Abu Hatim: Wa huwa sâlih al-Hadith la ba’sa bihi: He is passable in Hadith, there is no harm in him
Nasa’i: Laysa bihi ba’s – There is no harm (in his reports)
Ibn Hibban listed him in his book on Thiqat (trustworthy narrators)
Daraqutni: Thiqa – Trustworthy (This tawthiq from al-Daraqutni was reported by his pupil, Abu Abdullah al-Hakim in his Sawalat (no. 353) )
Al-Dhuhli made Tawthiq (declared him Thiqa)
Tabarani declared him Thiqa in al-Awsat (and in his al-Saghir, no. 509)
Bukhari listed him in his Ta’rikh al-Kabir and made no disparagement on him at all, even though he mentioned that Ibn Wahb narrated from Shabib. We also know that Al-Bukhari narrated via him in his Sahih.
We also know that: Al-Hakim in his Mustadrak (1/526) declared Shabib to be Thiqa Ma’mun – Trustworthy and reliable – which is a high form of making tawthiq on a narrator
So, from what was mentioned by Sh. Mamduh and provided by Sh. Abul Hasan above we conclude the following:
<span style="COLOR: #cc0000">A. The following ulema have declared Shabib to be utterly reliable / THIQA:</span>
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%"><div align="left">
Ali Ibn al-Madini,
al-Dhuhli,
al-Daraqutni,
al-Tabarani,
Ibn Hibban,
and Imam al-Hakim (1:526=1:707) who actually said THIQA MA’NUN, which is even stronger.
<span style="COLOR: #cc0000">B. The following Ulema said about Shabib: “la ba'sa bihi”.</span>
[Imam al-Lacknawi in al-Raf` wal-Takmil said this is identical with thiqa in its usage and is “all that is required in order to authenticate a narrator and render what he narrates authentic (sahih) and warrant its mention in the two Sahih’s” according to Shaykh Mahmud Mamduh.]
Abu Zur`ah,
Nasa'i,
Abu Hatim.
<span style="COLOR: #3333ff">The foregoing relates to the authentication (ta‘dil) of Shabib.</span>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 100%; COLOR: #993399">SECTION 2:</span>
Next, let us look at the made up false claim of the Salafis that only Shabib’s narrations from his books which contained the hadith he narrated from Yunus are reliable.
We shall bring the actual statements of the Ulema they use to back up their illogical deductions.
‘Ali ibn al-Madini said about Shabib: </div><div align="left"></div><div align="left">[i]“He was utterly reliable (thiqah). He used to go to Egypt for trade. His book was authentic (sahih).”
</div><div align="left">Mahmud Sa‘id Mamduh points out in Raf‘ al-Minarah fi Takhrij Ahadith al-Tawassul wa al-Ziyàrah , pp. 99-100, that the accuracy ( ضبط ) of a narrator [which along with integrity (‘adàlah / عدالة ) establishes reliability] is of two kinds: accuracy in respect of his memory ( الحفظضبط), and accuracy in respect of what he has written down (dabt al-kitàbah).
‘Ali al-Madini first declares that Shabib is utterly reliable (thiqah) without stating any condition. Thereafter, he reinforces that by stating that his book is also authentic without making his reliability conditional on being from that book.
Thus it blatantly clear that the ta’weel made by the Salafis from Ali al-Madini’s statement that only his narrations from his books are reliable is a lame illogical and unfounded inference clearly influenced by their desire to make the hadith weak at all costs!
Similarly this conclusion cannot be drawn from what Ibn Abi Hatim says about Shabib in al-Jarh wa al-Ta’dil:
</div>
شبيب بن سعيد أبو سعيد التميمي والد أحمد بن شبيب بن سعيد البصري
روى عن روح بن القاسم ويونس بن يزيد ومحمد بن عمرو
روى عنه عبد الله بن وهب وابنه أحمد بن شبيب بن سعيد سمعت أبى يقول ذلك وسألته عنه فقال كان عنده كتب يونس بن يزيد وهو صالح الحديث لا بأس به نا عبد الرحمن قال سمعت أبا زرعة يقول شبيب بن سعيد لا باس به بصرى كتب عنه بن وهب بمصر
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">Ibn Abi Hatim says [rough translation] regarding Shabib ibn Sa'id Abu Sa'id al Tamimi, father of Ahmad ibn Shabib bin sa'id al Basri. He narrated from Rauh ibn Qaasim and Younus ibn Yazid and Muhammad ibn 'amr. From him narrated Ibn Wahb and his son Ahmad ibn Shabib ibn Sai'd who said that i heard my father saying that and i asked him concerning it and he said he had with him the book of Yunus. He is righteous in hadith and there is no harm in him. Abdal rahman said Abu Zurah said shabib bin saeed - la ba's bihi - there is no harm in him. Ibn wahb wrote from him in Egypt.
<span style="COLOR: #ff0000">As you notice there is no stipulation that Shabib’s narration must be from Yunus ibn Yazid in order to be authentic (sahih).
</span>
So yes, we accept that the Ulema have praised the book Shabib wrote from Yunus an Zuhri but to manipulate the statements of praise for this route mentioned by Ibn Abi Hatim and Ali al-Madini in order to disparage all of his other narrations from other narrators by way of memory or otherwise is a fallacy and not supported in their statements whatsoever.
All this goes to show how unreliable the Salafis are in terms of manipulating the texts of the Ulema of old.
Now, some mention of two scholars who did place a condition on Shabib’s reliability – namely that it not be Ibn Wahb who narrate from him:
Ibn Adi said in Al-Kamil Fil-Du'afa:
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http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/834/1750/400/Ibn%20adi.jpg (http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/834/1750/1600/Ibn%20adi.gif)
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">[rough translation of relevant excerpts]
</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">“He has a written copy of Hadith from Younus ibn Yazeed which is fine”
“When his son Ahmad narrates from him with the ahadeeth of Yunus then it is as if they were two different Shabibs, not the shabeeb who ibn wahb narrated disclaimed narrations from when Shabib was on a business trip in Egypt. Ibn Wahb narrated from Shabib disclaimed narrations. Shabib may have transmitted mistakes from memory. I hope that he did not do this intentionally.”
Before we discuss this statement, let us remember in the background that large numbers of Ulema have clearly declared Shabib to be THIQA [utterly reliable].
</span></p>
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">
Let us investigate what has been mentioned by Ibn Adi and what can truly be understood from it.
The claim that "Shabib may have transmitted mistakes from memory" is a speculation brought up by Ibn `Adi (4:31)
Ibn `Adi states that "Ibn Wahb narrated from Shabib disclaimed narrations."
However, according to Shaykh GF Haddad, the few examples he gives are good hadiths, not one of them is actually weak!
Nevertheless, let us accept Ibn Adi’s statement at face value.
The situation is clarified by the fact that Shabib went to Egypt on a business trip [as Ibn Adi mentioned] and not to actually report ahadith. Hence on this one occasion (of un-preparedness) there was the possibility of erroneously reporting some things (as he was after all fallible).
Bottom line: what is criticized is the transmission: Ibn Wahb --> Shabib
Ibn `Adi praises Ahmad’s narration of Shabib’s ahadeeth from Yunus.
But, as you may have noticed in the above notice from Ibn Adi there is no stipulation from him that Shabib’s narration must be from Yunus ibn Yazid in order to be authentic (sahih).
He merely praises it – as does Ibn Abi Hatim's in Al-Jarh Wa Al-Ta'dil and Ali al-Madani as shown above.
This, of course, does not mean that if Shabib were to narrate from anyone else it would not be accepted.
Anyone who claims as such is making an unfounded ta’wil based on his hawwa!
If Ibn Adi’s statement is taken literally, then this is all that we can gain from it:
1- The narration of Ahmad -> Shabib -> Yunus is excellent
2- What Ibn Wahb reported from Shabib in Egypt is not accepted, and in it are mistakes
3- There is nothing preventing the narrations that don't fall under the conditions referred to in #1 and #2 from being sahih.
Another scholar whose statements are misinterpreted and manipulated by the Salafis is Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani.
Salafis often mention that Ibn Hajar writes about Shabib, in his Muqaddimah: "al-Bukhari narrated some ahadith from him via his son, which he narrated from Yunus. And he never narrated from him anything from anyone other than Yunus..." (1/429)
This point is somehow meant to support a claim that Shabib’s narrations are only acceptable to Ibn Hajar if it fulfills the chain Ahmad – Shabib – Yunus.
This is, of course, nonsense!
We have already mentioned that yes, this chain is impeccable – but no, there is no evidence in this statement that Shabib’s narrations from other than Yunus are not acceptable. We accept that Imam Bukhari only made use of this chain but there are thousands of sahih Hadith with chains that the Imam did not use – does it make them weak?
Ibn Hajar’s final word on Shabib, is found in al-Taqrib where he [like Ibn Adi] questions the narrations of Ibn Wahb but clearly does not mention any condition that his narrations be from Yunus alone. He says:
"There is no harm [la ba’s] in the narration of his son [Ahmad ibn Shabib] from him, unlike that of Ibn Wahb."
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شبيب ابن سعيد التميمي الحبطي بفتح المهملة والموحدة البصري أبو سعيد<span style="COLOR: #ff0000"> لا بأس بحديثه من رواية ابنه أحمد عنه لا من رواية ابن وهب</span> من صغار الثامنة مات سنة ست وثمانين خ خد س
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 85%">So again, this further strengthens the chain of Imam Bayhaqi in which Ahmad ibn Shabib is narrating from his father!
<span style="FONT-SIZE: 100%; COLOR: #009900">Conclusion:</span>
1) Many of the Ulema gave Shabeeb general tawtheeq.
So, for example, Imam al-Tabarani considered him Thiqa and did not lay any conditions on his reliablity - hence he considered even his own chain containing Ibn Wahb narrating from Shabib to be Sahih!
2) The Ulema have not laid any condition that Shabib’s narration only be acceptable if they are from Yunus.
Moreover, Shabib was from Basra, as was Rawh bin Al-Qasim (who he reports this hadith from). This was an advantage for Shabib, as there is an added strength to the chain of a local narrating from a local.
This was the case with Malik too who made an effort to report almost solely from Madinian people, which is one of the reasons why his narrations were so acceptable.
3) Some Ulema did question the narrations of Ibn Wahb from Shabib. So, according to these Ulema the chain of Imam al-Tabarani is problematic.
BUT, the chain from al-Dalail an-Nabuwah does not contain Ibn Wahb! So, Alhamdulillah, no problem there!
4) A further condition was mentioned by some such as Ibn Hajar that Ahmad ibn Shabib narrate from his father [Shabib]. Again, this condition is met in the version from Dalail al-Nubuwwa!
Thus it is all crystal clear – the isnad of the Hadith of the man in Need as cited by Bayhaqi in Dalail al-Nubuwwa is AUTHENTIC.
The deception employed by the Salafiyya is clearly evident.
May Allah guide us all to the truth. Ameen.</span></p></span></div>