PDA

View Full Version : Was Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal an Anthropomorphist??


danish al hyderabadee
7th May 2006, 04:48 AM
<font size="3" face="Garamond"><center><font color="#660033">Was Imam Ahmad Ibn Hanbal
an
Anthropomorphist?</font></center></font>
</p>



<font size="3" face="Garamond"><font color="#000066"></font><center><font color="#000066"><font face="Garamond">From
&quot;The Re-Formers of Islam&quot;
by Shaykh Nuh Ha Mim Keller*******</font></font></center> <center></center>

</font>
</p>




<font size="3" color="#000066">Question:</font>
<ul><p align="justify"><font size="3" color="#000066">Was Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal an
anthropomorphist as is alleged by the Salafis? Can you provide me
examples of the sayings of Imam Ahmad that show he did not hold the
anthropomorphic ‘aqida of the neo-Salafis, as they claim?</font>
</p>[/list]
<p align="justify"><font size="3" color="#000066">

Answer*******</font>
</p><p align="justify"><font size="3" color="#000066">Regarding the question of whether Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (d.
241/855) was an anthropomorphist, this is something that has been asked
since early times, particularly since someone forged an anthropormorphic
tract called Kitab al-sunna [The book of the sunna] and put the
name of Imam Ahmad’s son Abdullah (d. 290/903) on it.**************</font>
</p><p align="justify"><font size="3" color="#000066">I looked this book over with our teacher in hadith,
Sheikh Shu‘ayb al-Arna’ut, who had examined it one day, and said that
at least 50 percent of the hadiths in it are weak or outright forgeries.
He was dismayed how Muhammad al-Qahtani, the editor and commentator, could
have been given a Ph.d. in Islamic faith (‘aqida) from Umm al-Qura
University in Saudi Arabia for readying for publication a work as sadly
wanting in authenticity as this.**************</font>
</p><p align="justify"><font size="3" color="#000066">Ostensibly a &quot;hadith&quot; work, it contains some
of the most hard-core anthropomorphism found anywhere, such as the hadith
that &quot;when He Most Blessed and Exalted sits on the Kursi, a
squeak is heard like the squeak of a new leather saddle&quot; (Kitab
al-Sunna [Dammam, Dar Ibn al-Qayyim, 1986/1406], 1.301), or
&quot;Allah wrote the Torah for Moses with His hand while leaning back on
a rock, on tablets of pearl, and the screech of the quill could be heard.
There was no veil between Him and him&quot; (ibid., 1.294), or &quot;The
angels were created from the light of His two elbows and chest&quot;
(ibid., 2.510), and so on.**************</font>
</p><p align="justify"><font size="3" color="#000066">The work also puts lies in the mouths of major Hanbali
scholars and others, such as Kharija (d.
168/785), who is quoted about [i]istiwa’ (translated above as being
'established' on the Throne), &quot;Does istiwa’ mean
anything except sitting?&quot; (ibid., 1.106)—with a chain of
transmission containing a liar (kadhdhab), an unidentifiable (majhul),
plus the text with its contradiction (mukhalafa) of Islamic faith (‘aqida).
Or consider the forty-nine pages of vilification of Abu Hanifa and his
school that it mendaciously ascribes to major Imams, such as that relating
that Ishaq ibn Mansur al-Kusaj (d. 251/865) said, &quot;I asked Ahmad Ibn
Hanbal, ‘Is a man rewarded by Allah for loathing Abu Hanifa and his
colleagues?’ and he said, ‘Yes, by Allah’&quot; (ibid., 1.180). To
ascribe things so stupid to a man of godfearingness (taqwa) like Ahmad,
whose respect for other scholars is well attested to by chains of
transmission that are rigorously authenticated (sahih), is one of the
things by which this counterfeit work overreaches itself, and ends in
cancelling any credibility that the name on it may have been intended to
give it. Sheikh Shu‘ayb told us he doesn’t believe it is really from
Ahmad ibn Hanbal’s son ‘Abdullah, since there is an unidentifiable (majhul)
transmitter in the book’s chain of ascription to ‘Abdullah. But the
fact that such a work exists may give you an idea of the kinds of things
that have been circulated about Ahmad after his death, and the total lack
of scrupulousness among a handful of anthropomorphists who tried literally
everything to spread their bid‘as.**************</font>
</p><font size="3" color="#000066">Another work with its share of anthropomorphisms and
forgeries is Ibn al-Qayyim al-Jawziyya’s Ijtima‘ al-juyush
al-Islamiyya [The meeting of the Islamic armies], which mentions such
&quot;hadiths&quot; as, &quot;Honor the cow, for it has not lifted its
head to the sky since the [golden] calf was worshipped, out of shame (haya’)
before Allah Mighty and Majestic&quot; (Ijtima‘ al-juyush
al-Islamiyya [Riyad: ‘Awwad ‘Abdullah al-Mu‘tiq, 1408/1988],
330), a forged (mawdu‘) hadith apparently intended to encourage Muslims
to believe that Allah is floating abo..................

http://village.flashnet.it/users/fn034463/ibnhanbal.html

Has soem one replied ot this yet...if so please direct me to the proper forum...JazakAllahU khayran

</font>

abubakr
9th May 2006, 07:27 PM
Asalamu alaykum </p>



brother is the book by dr saleh in english and could you please scan some pages.</p>



Jazakallah khair</p>

danish al hyderabadee
11th May 2006, 05:38 PM
Walaykum As Salaam

Yes the book is in english...inshaAllah ill do it today.

Suhaib Jobst
10th June 2006, 02:12 PM
As Salaam Alaykum,

Nuh Ha Mim Keller is not from Ahlus-Sunnah, but his works and statements indicate that he is from the Jahmiyyah, i.e. he denies the Al-Asmaa was-Sifaat of Allah (Subhanahu wa-Ta'ala).

Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah holds that the Names and Attributes should be accepted as they are described by Allah Ta'ala. The term "anthropomorphist" is merely a term of derision used by the modern Jahmiyah, to slander our noble 'ulama and oppose our Aqeedah.

More rubbish coming from one of the modern callers to Jahmiyyah.

waziri
18th June 2006, 06:57 PM
Have the points raised in the article been refuted?Does the book actually contain such supposed ahadith as
"when He Most Blessed and Exalted sits on the Kursi, a squeak is heard like the squeak of a new leather saddle" (Kitab
al-Sunna [Dammam, Dar Ibn al-Qayyim, 1986/1406], 1.301), .

Is the book authentically attributed to the son of Imam Ahmad?

Could someone please provide the link to the thread,if my questions have allready been dealt with else where.

JazakAllah khair

wasalam

danish al hyderabadee
19th June 2006, 05:31 AM
As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahamtullah

Form what the brothers have told me, those hadith are all fabricated or weak and Dr. al Qahtani has mentioned so in those books......giving me the impression that Nuh Ha Meem didnt read the book and is just saying things making taqleed of his shaykh...but Allahu Alim, i cant say anythign until we read the actual book.....Anyone read the actual book and found these things in there???

abubakr
19th June 2006, 10:02 AM
Asalamu alaykum

Akhi abu zaubair has already dealt with this issue in the salafi/hanbali thread if you search throuhg there. mashallah brother abu zubair gave a very satisfying response.

Abuz Zubair
19th June 2006, 06:42 PM
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=4455&postcount=54

waziri
19th June 2006, 08:05 PM
brother Abu Zubair,

I can understand that scholars have critisised others for various reasons but doesnt this statement go beyond the limits

"I asked Ahmad Ibn
Hanbal, ‘Is a man rewarded by Allah for loathing Abu Hanifa and his
colleagues?’ and he said, ‘Yes, by Allah’"

This cant be authentically atributed to Imam Ahmad?Has the translator stated that this is a fabrication?

wasalam.