Who to listen to..?

[Abu_Abdallah]

al-Salamu 'Alaikum,</p>



Can someone tell me why always the converts among the West make so much trouble? I mean - no disrespect for their Islâm, al-Hamdulillah they became so! - but why is it that the likes of Nuh Ha Mim Keller, Gabriel Fouad Haddad, Abu Ja'far etc. are the ones who are at the forefront of misrepresenting some of our religion's facets?</p>



Are the Arabic scholars - from whom they learned or which they look up to - unable to propagate so much in the West? Why do we have to wait for a ex-Christians to inform us what's correct or not in these controversial matters? There are probably*******plenty of Arabic (or Pakistani, Indian or whatever) scholars, student etc. who disagree with what the Ahl al-Sunnah say and who are capable of informing the common on what is right and wrong. </p>



Let them be more concerned with their own Hidâyah instead of posing themselves as major Dâ'is of the Muslims in the West. Its a matter of modesty to thank Allah, the Exalted, for His Guidance and to stay away of trying to '[mis]guide' others - at least that would I do when I was brought up as a mislead human. </p>



wa-Allahu A'lam.</p>

[gag order]

a few converts who have risen to prominance sometimes loosely resemble abdullah ibn sabah in their misrepresentation of*******islam.</p>



abdullah ibn sabah needs no introduction he was the founder of shiaism. as a former rabbi who commanded respect in his community, he*******desired*******a similar status amongst the muslims when he converted but failed in his attempt to gain recognition or some sort of acknowledgement*******for his past achievements in judaism. his*******'transferable' skills and knowledge in talmudic law were of no use to the muslims. </p>



bitter and resentful, his arrogance, spitefulness and bigotry so characteristic of jews and his whimsical desire for fame led him*******on a path of political heresy, to him islam was whatever you make it and instead of*******embracing the established and widely accepted islam of the best generation he hated it and the object of his hate was none other than khalifah usman (ra)</p>



the rest is offcourse*******history.</p>

**************</p>

[Abu_Abdallah]

Na'am.. Abdallah b. Saba' is an enemy of Islam, a Munafiq!</p>



But what I want to stress now - before some misinterpret our statements and accuse us of comparing these Fitnah-makers with the great Munâfiq Ibn Saba' who is a Zindiq - that those Muslims of today who have 'advised' the Muslims in the West are no Kâfirs or Murtads as Ibn Saba', Bayan b. Sam'an and other Zanâdiqah who became 'Muslims' to destroy it intentionally.</p>



But what they do - I guess - unintentionally is misrepresenting many things, argueing for the bâtil etc. The thing is, one can compare such likes*******as Abu'l-Hasan al-Ash'ari. I mean not that they are of his calibre etc., far from it. They are like him since the following of al-Ash'ari took this man as Imam, when he was for over 40 years a Mu'tazilite. The problem is:</p>



How can they take as Imam among the Imams a personality who was for 40 years an enemy of the Sunnah, a major*******innovator! Couldn't they find an Imam of the Ahl al-Sunnah who could explain them the correct Deen? </p>



To express it in the Hanbalite Yusuf b. 'Abd al-Hadi's (d.909) words (or meaning):</p>



&quot;Where the Imams of Guidance expired?! Did they have to take recourse to a man who was 40 years a Mu'tazilite, and couldn't they found an Imam from the Imams of the Sunnah?!&quot;</p>



The same can be said to these Dâ'is of Bâtil (and some of Kufr):</p>



&quot;Why have we wait untill some convert become Muslim to learn correct from wrong?! Where there not scholars and students who could inform us, or do we have to wait untill Allah, the Exalted, turns His*******Favour to a Kafir by making him a Muslim who spread the good?!&quot;</p>



wa-Allahu Musta'an.*******</p>

[Abuz Zubair]

as-salaamu ‘alaikum,

Although, only Allah knows what is in the hearts, I still think that people like Keller, Winter, Hanson, etc, genuinely embraced Islam, and not with the intention of corrupting Islam from within.

However, I do think that the reason why these people turned to Islam, is perhaps the very reason why other middleclass academics, or various burn-outs from the so-called ‘Generation-X’, turned to Hari Krishna, Buddhism and other spiritual paths, fleeing from the dominant Western materialism. Materialism and secularism created a huge spiritual vacuum in the Western societies, which caused many people to look for alternatives to fill that vacuum. They couldn’t turn to Christianity, for that for them was a complete failure. Hence, some turned to Buddhism, others to Hinduism, while others simply turned to Sufism, and through it they entered Islam.

It is important to note, though, how extremism gives rise to extremism, which in their case, is going from materialist extremism to spiritual extremism.

wasalam

[gag order]

the need to fill this 'spiritual vaccum' is perhaps the reason why spiritualism or*******mysticism is so readily accepted by some converts who in their quest for enlightenment and fulfillmemt crave more than the 'doctrinal technicalities' of orthodox islam. it is their abhorrance and dissatisfaction*******with established doctrine that eventually leads them onto a deviated path of esoteric beliefs into the realm of speculation and experience beyond the scope of islam.</p>



a point of contention is their (converts) claim to superiority for choosing islam while 'born muslims' had no choice.*******</p>

[waziri]

MashaAllah brothers good analasys of why some converts go towards sufism,could the brothers please share their thoughts as to why alot lean towards talafism.

wasalam

[terrorthreat]

MashaAllah brothers good analasys of why some converts go towards sufism,could the brothers please share their thoughts as to why alot lean towards talafism.

wasalam

Talafism is basically a cult just like sufism except with different ideas; such as taqleed of government scholars and there defense. Also, it probably gives them a sense of being correct over all others since they are always attacking everyone about everything.

[waziri]

Yes interesting bro terror threat,
I think youve hit the nail on the head bro,I mean they keep getting told that they are the only saved sect and that they are 100% correct in everything and that everyone else is wrong.Also I think they get warned alot about looking in to other aspects of the deen apart from what they promote.

Also the fact that eveyone is labelled and put in to a box so the new cult member is always aware and on guard and will not listen to any one else with an open mind,ie if some one talks about jihad the new cult member will automatically think TAKFIRI/KHARIJI and will run a mile lol.

[Suhaib Jobst]

As Salaam Alaykum,

I converted to Islam over four years ago, because I came to realize it was the Truth. Often, many of us follow such groups because of our zeal - we love our new Deen. The Talafis and Sufis prey upon such converts, confusing their minds with deviant concepts.

After converting, I joined the so-called "Salafis". I truly thought that they represented Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah. It was not until a year ago that I began to question this, and I stumbled upon websites such as these which changed my entire perspective.

Al Hamdulillah, I have been guided to the True Path and the pure madhhab of the Salaf. And I ask Allah (Subhanahu wa-Ta'ala) to guide other converts and give them the wisdom to distinguish the true scholars from those of Baatil. Ameen!

[waziri]

Brother suhaib jobst,

JazakAllah khair for sharing your experience.

Brother could you please elaborate and give some examples of the things that made you question the group you were with,which aspects of their dawa led you to question and which aspect of the dawa of the deen did you find that helped you to understand that what they were propagating was in fact a false call.

Could you please provide some specifics,may Allah reward you,I think maybe that could be usefull for me when giving dawa to such people.

wasalam

[Suhaib Jobst]

Wa Alaykum as-Salaam,

Basically, despite all the indoctrination I still kept an open mind. There were times in which I tried to quash such thoughts, but again and again these doubts would surface. I recognized how their positions were harsh against the Muslims but easy upon the Kuffar, specifically those who spearheaded the war against authentic Islam.

I began to question why the Mujahideen were called "Khawaarij", when they seemed the most virtuous of the people. Why instead of taking a clear stance upon Islam, the Talafis attacked the Muslims while leaving alone Kuffar. Why some rulers - specifically those at odds with Amerika and the Saudi regime - were considered apostates, but others were not.

Before becoming a Talafi, I was an avid reader of Sayyid Qutb and a supporter of such acts as "suicide bombings". Even as I became a Talafi, I could not completely separate myself from that aspect of my life. How could the Talafis consider these acts to be "suicide" while I read about the virtues of martyrdom?

These questions aside, I was a typical Talafi youth...with my hand constantly on the "Jarh wat-Ta'deel" gun, ready to "zap" anyone who opposed our scholars as a "deviant hizbee". For over two years it was all the same routine. Finally, I got tired of this and asked myself, was there not a more righteous path? Should I not be concerning myself with the important issues and leave such divisive issues which did not concern me?

After sheltering myself in my small world of the Talafis - our own scholars, websites and masaajid - I did an honest research on the Internet. Specifically subjects such as Eemaan, Kufr, Haakimiyyah and Jihad. I discovered the fataawa of the 'ulama, like Shaykhs Hamud ibn Uqla, Abu Muhammad al-Maqdisi, Abu Bashir Mustafa Haleemah, Nasir al-Fahd, Abdullah Azzam, and others.

I also read words from those scholars I had followed - such as Shaykhs Bin Baz, Albanee and 'Uthaymeen - which refuted the claims of the Talafis who supposedly followed them! Such as their support for Jihad, deep concern for the oppressed Muslims, criticism of the "Jarh wat-Ta'deel" culture, and praise for supposed deviant "Surooris/Qutubis", such as Salman al-Awdah, Safar al-Hawali, and Abdur-Rahman Abdul-Khaliq.

To sum it all up concisely, I began to see a very different picture of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamaa'ah from the one I had been taught as being correct. So it was really the contemporary situation of the Muslims - particularly the Amerikan aggression against Iraq - which served as the final catalyst.

As for what I hold to be correct now: Then as a former Talafi, I would advise the brethren to study the following websites, which provide a correct interpretation of Islam, Al Hamdulillah:

http://tibyaan.atspace.com/tibyaan/index-2.html
http://salafiyyah-jadeedah.tripod.com/
http://ee.1asphost.com/raehatualmisk/FAQs.html
http://www.geocities.com/sprefutations/
http://website.lineone.net/~davidmyatt/

was-Salaam,
Suhaib

[waziri]

JazakALLAH Brother for sharing your experience with us may Allah reward you.

[Umm Ahmed]

As salaam alaykum Wurahmatuulah wa barakatuu

Interesting topic , as a long time revert I will tell you what I think are the problems .
First of all the muslims build us up into something we are not especially if we are white and from UK and America, born muslims allow us to do all sorts of crazy things without telling us its wrong because they think we will leave Islam.
Islam needs to be presented slowly as emaan builds up but no distortions should be given during that time , we are not that fragile, if the core belief that Allah is one and that Mohammed is his messenger is there, then everything will follow . There is a wisdom in every single thing we do a born muslim dealing with a revert should also be studying on how to answer all the questions a revert has .
This leads us to an other problem a lot of muslims only know the bare basics of Islam so when a revert comes to ask the born muslim questions they will waffle with half truths because they dont know themselves the answer, in some cases this then pushes someone to look elsewhere be it a shia or a sufee or whatever.
When I first started coming on the net I was surprised at the low opinion a lot of the brothers and sisters had for reverts , even hearing that brothers would not marry them !!! till I saw for myself what they are all up to , they seem to be clinging on to half kufur half Islam thats a deadly mixture for anyone it will lead to so much unhapiness and the amount of people who become muslim only to leave a few months later as they were not given proper dawaa from the start is shocking , many reverts are not stable at all family rejection pushes you to look and make friends with people that might not be of a good character , its difficult to make new friends that you hope will take over the friendships you had since childhood no wonder so many reverts are a mess . May Allah guide all of us ameen
A huge problem is that the soufee movement is everywhere they are the most active , their arguments are very good , I am not talking about the whirling dervishes here ,but those soufees who are clever and can twist things around and if you are not knowledgable then your lost.

I was blessed alhamdulilah I am from a small town and got married and moved to a tiny village at the bottom of the mountains i So I am safe InshaAllah , but I am not so safe on the internet and am always worried I could become misguided if I am silly enough to allow the shaytan get a foothold .
Finally brothers and sisters I can truly say its Allah that guides we are taught to be balanced and follow the middle path , no one can be led astray unless Allah willed it , reverts are given tests just the same as anyone else if we fail and end up going down a path far from the main one then we only have ourselves to blame . Heaven is surrounded by tests and hardships its up to us where we choose to travel .