Why is Salafiyyah characterised with being anti/non madhabi?

[asharee_salafi]

Assalaamulekum,

OK OK....I think I may have made a mistake when doing the al albani thread, so I will re phrase and ask:

Why is the Salafiyyah movement characterised with abandoning taqleed and being anti-madhabi?
I see no contradiction in following the aqeedah of the Salaf, and following an Imam who does ijtihad from a madhab.

Please give me some insight as this is an urgent question.

I get confused, because if you go to some websites like islam-qa,islamtoday, they phrase things which I don't understand, such as saying that if the truth comes to you, you must follow it,

I agree!

But what I disagree with is when people who are laymen start to read english translations, or read one or two fiqh books, and then chastise someone who merely follows a different opinion, often accusing him of bidah. An example might be praying putting your hand below navel.( I remember a talk from our Abuz Zubair who quotes that even Muhammed ibn Abdul Wahab RH used to pray with hands below navel, and a narration pertaining to Imam Ahmed on the same subject.

Please give some insights, as I'm all in favour for being Salafi in Aqeedah, but I just don't understand this term " don't blind follow anyone?" as a Muqalid as no choice. This is why people like Sunniforum are a bit better in these issues- although, I have to agree they, and some TJ hanafi's are very fanatical about the madhabs. SO is HT. I remember we used to have late night conversations on fiqh from the 4 madhabs, and all the people that spoke about it were ardent shafi's, hanafis, or nabahani's ( imposter )- and whats funny in all this is that they didn't pick one fiqh book up and they couldn't probably even clean themselves,

Anyways,

Some feedback PLS

WS :)

[waziri]

Yeah its just uncalled for confusion,like saying dont blind follow anyone, so we have to find out the evidence for every single ruling and how it was derived and then decide wheather we follow it or not.Some people even think they can look at the rulings from each respective madhab and then decide which ruling is closer to the sunnah,my question is if you can look at the rulings of the madhahib and then decide for yourself which ruling is the correct one then why do you need to look at the rulings of the madhahib?Why not just go straight the source and find out for yourself?

The call away from following the madhahib in reality is a call to a fifth madhab,like those who say dont blindly follow anyone are really saying blindly follow us.

For the layperson taqleed is the only way and the choice is wheather you make taqleed of the established agreed upon classical schools of fiqh or you make taqleed of some modern day scholar or you pick and mix the rulings,and if you choose to pick and mix as a lay person you will only be following your desires.On what basis will you be able to judge the correctness of the rulings other than whims and desires?

[Abuz Zubair]

I have dealt with this issue here:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=1331&postcount=2

[asharee_salafi]

Assalaamulekum,

Yes I have read that article many times, and its very precise. I agree through and through, but my question still stands, because many Salafees, still deny the concept of taqleed, and still I dont know the reason why they use the phrase that we shouldn't "blind follow"?

It also baffles me because most of these people whom say we shouldn't "blind follow" are themselves the biggest of blind followers!

please give some feedback. Also include Sh Al Albani's posistion if poss.

WS

[Abuz Zubair]

Well, not all 'Salafis' are clued up about all issues, just as many Ash'aris are clueless about their own doctrine.

Leave the people saying whatever they want to say. What's important is to know the truth.

Sheikh al-Albani, as far as I recall, also had the opinion that one should stick to a Madhab while learning Fiqh, as there is no other way of learning Fiqh.

wasalam

[asharee_salafi]

Sure,

But didn't AlAlbani say in his book, the hadeeth if a proof in itself, that even a basic layman can understand a hadeeth ( something about doing wudu without water as I remember) and follow it?

And why do the Ulema from Islam qa and Islamtoday say that we should not "blind follow" . What does this phrase actually mean?

WS

[Abuz Zubair]

I read Sh al-Albani's book partially long time ago.

It would be good if you can quote what exactly he says and then we can try to decypher. The same goes for islam-qa

[Logic lover]

Assalamu alaikum.

The following from Islam QA may be of interest:

Is it mandatory for a muslim to follow a specific madhab (maliki, hanafi, hanbali,etc)?
If it is so, what madhab is the best? Is it true that Abou Hanifa's madhab is the most followed in the muslim world?.

Answer:

Praise be to Allaah.

It is not obligatory for a Muslim to follow any particular madhhab among these four. People vary in their level of understanding and ability to derive rulings from the evidence. There are some for whom it is permissible to follow (taqleed), and indeed it may be obligatory in their case. There are others who can only follow the shar’i evidence. In Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah this question was answered in a detailed manner, which is worth quoting here in full.

Question:

What is the ruling on following one of the four madhhabs in all cases and situations?

The Committee replied:

Praise be to Allaah, and blessings and peace be upon His Messenger and his family and companions.

Firstly: the four madhhabs are named after the four imams – Imam Abu Haneefah, Imam Maalik, Imam al-Shaafa’i and Imam Ahmad.

Secondly: These imams learned fiqh (jurisprudence) from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and they are mujtahideen in this regard. The mujtahid either gets it right, in which case he will have two rewards, the reward for his ijtihaad and the reward for getting it right, or he will get it wrong, in which case he will be rewarded for his ijtihaad and will be forgiven for his mistake.

Thirdly: the one who is able to derive rulings from the Qur’aan and Sunnah should take from them like those who came before him; it is not right for him to follow blindly (taqleed) when he is believes that the truth lies elsewhere. Rather he should follow that which he believes is the truth. It is permissible for him to follow in matters in which he is unable to come to a conclusion based on the Qur’aan and Sunnah and he needs guidelines concerning a particular issue.

Fourthly: Whoever does not have the ability to derive rulings himself is permitted to follow one whom he feels comfortable following. If he is not comfortable following him then he should ask until he finds someone with whom he is comfortable.

Fifthly: From the above it is clear that we should not follow their opinions in all situations and at all times, because they may make mistakes, but we may follow their views that are sound and are based on the evidence.

Fataawa al-Lajnah, 5/28

It says in Fataawa al-Lajnah, no. 3323:

Whoever is qualified to derive rulings from the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and has strong knowledge in that regard, even if that is with the help of the legacy of fiqh that we have inherited from earlier scholars of Islam, has the right to do that, so he can act upon it himself and explain it in disputes and issue fatwas to those who consult him. Whoever is not qualified to do that has to ask trustworthy people who so that he may learn the rulings from their books and act upon that, without limiting his asking or his reading to one of the scholars of the four madhhabs. Rather people refer to the four imams because they are so well known and their books are well written and widely available.

Whoever says that it is obligatory for the learned people to follow the scholars blindly in all cases is making a mistake and being inflexible, and is thinking that these learned people are inadequate, and he is restricting something that is broad in scope.

Whoever says that we should limit following to the four madhhabs is also mistaken, because he is restricting something that is broad in scope with no evidence for doing so. With regard to the common (i.e., uneducated) man there is no difference between the four imams and others such as al-Layth ibn Sa’d, al-Awzaa’i and other fuqaha’.

Fataawa al-Lajnah, 5/41

It says in Fatwa no. 1591:

None of them called people to follow his madhhab, or was partisan in following it, or obliged anyone else to act in accordance with it or with a specific madhhab. Rather they used to call people to follow the Qur’aan and Sunnah, and they would comment on the texts of Islam, and explain its basic principles and discuss minor issues according to general guidelines, and issue fatwas concerning what people asked about, without obliging any of their students or anyone else to follow their views. Rather they criticized those who did that and said that their opinions should be cast aside if they went against a saheeh hadeeth. One of them said: “If the hadeeth is saheeh then that is my madhhab.” May Allaah have mercy on them all.

It is not obligatory for anyone to follow a particular madhhab, rather we should strive to learn the truth if possible, or to seek the help of Allaah in doing so, then to rely on the legacy that the earlier Muslim scholars left behind for those who came after them, thus making it easier for them to understand and apply the texts. Whoever cannot derive rulings from the texts etc for some reason that prevents him from doing so should ask trustworthy scholars for whatever rulings of sharee’ah he needs, because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“So ask the people of the Reminder [Scriptures — the Tawraat (Torah), the Injeel (Gospel)] if you do not know”

[al-Anbiya’ 21:7]

So he has to strive to ask one whom he trusts among those who are well known for their knowledge, virtue, piety and righteousness.

Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 5/56

The madhhab of Abu Haneefah (may Allaah have mercy on him) is the most widespread madhhab among the Muslims, and perhaps one of the reasons for that is that the Ottoman caliphs followed this madhhab and they ruled the Muslim lands for more than six centuries. That does not mean that the madhhab of Abu Haneefah is the most sound madhhab or that every ijtihaad in it is correct, rather like other madhhabs it contains some things that are correct and some that are incorrect. What the believer must do is to follow the truth and what is correct, regardless of who says it.

And Allaah knows best.


Islam Q&A (www.islam-qa.com) Question ref 21420

[Abuz Zubair]

jk for that... it corresponds to what I wrote previously on following madhabs.

I have dealt with this issue here:
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/s...31&postcount=2 (http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showpost.php?p=1331&postcount=2)

Let me know if you need any clarification.

[asharee_salafi]

Assalaamulekum,

Some urgent questions Please.

:)

1.I cant find it at the moment, but these are common as Im SURE you will know.

When they say you can't blind follow anyone, that is what I just don't understand, for instance in one of Bilal Philips talks, entitled school of Islamic law ( to what I remember) he says that its perfectsly fine for one to follow a scholar whom he trusts, but if a sahih evidence comes you way, and it contradicts your madhab, you must take the "sahih" evidence.

The problem here is that just because something is sahih doesn;t mean it should be followed without actualy undertanding of the hadeeth, therefore Im unsure what he means,

Does he mean that some clown who read sheikh Al Albani's book on Prayer, whom knows a few words like "manhaj", "khawarij" or "bidah" comes your way and brings you a hadeeth ( sahih) you should follow it?
How can a layman bring translated english hadeeths, of which he has no understanding and then require everyone else to follow it based upon HIS understanding or upon HIS own scholar?
How can the blind lead the blind?
I also heard him say that its not permissible to have differences over certain aspects of wudu, such that the shafis say that if you touch a woman your wudu breaks, and the hanafees say that touching a woman doesn't break your wudu . To what I remember, surely thats false ?
I agree, if the evidence comes your way VIA A SCHOLAR , AND YOU TAKE THE HADEETH TO YOUR OTHER SCHOLAR WHO HAS NO REPLY, THEN THE SCHOLAR WHOM BROUGHT YOU THE HADEETH SHOULD BE FOLLOWED.

But,

I do not beleive that any tom dick or harry that comes you war with a sahih hadeeth should be followed or beleived, especially in times of fitnah.


2. Why is it some salafees are seen to be childish when it comes to labelling certain Imams, I heard one tape of saleem hilaly who had his words translated on teh tape. The talk was on ibn taymiyyah and how is should NOT be called a hanbali ( ?!?!?!) but rather a salafi (?!?!?!). Which is childish. Who cares what the Imam is called ! whats important is wether he is upon the Sunnah! not his blooming title!

Anyways,

Why do we call certain Imams hanbali, shafii etc etc, for instance Ibn Taymiyyah apparently had different rulings in divorce to mainstream hanbali's, therefore what qualifies one as being a hanbali, malaili etc

3. Is the approach of the ashrees on Sunni forum with regards to the madhab valid? Are they balanced in this approach

[suhail]

1) Well if a laymen brings you a saheeh hadith are you going to reject it. Thats absurd. Rather you take that hadeeth and verify that hadeeth whether it is saheeh or not. If you cant verify yourself take it to a scholar who is versed to analyze it and ask him the meaning of the hadeeth and what is meant by it. You should ask the mufti you follow that why there is a difference and stuff. Bilal Phillips didnt tell you to go ahead and just follow that. He told to verify the evidences and if you cant ask a knowledgable person. Sound simple isnt it.

Whats the problem in that? When it comes to our deen why we become so ignorant that we cant understand a simple method of verifying thing but when it comes to matters of this world we are all intelligent and stuff. A saheeh hadith told to you by even tom, dick or harry is sahih nonetheless.

2) Thats not just the case with salafees. It is all over the world. Why to pin point one person and then make issue out of it. It is non issue and your time will be better served in learning someother thing then picking on names.

3) Allahu alam i dont know people from sunni forum.

Jazakallah khair
Suhail

[Abuz Zubair]

Rather you take that hadeeth and verify that hadeeth whether it is saheeh or not. If you cant verify yourself take it to a scholar who is versed to analyze it and ask him the meaning of the hadeeth and what is meant by it. You should ask the mufti you follow that why there is a difference and stuff

That is correct, provided that the Mufti sees the questioner as someone to whom evidences could be relevant. Otherwise, a Mufti is under no obligation to tell the layman an evidence for anything, because the Mufti's word is in fact the evidence for the questioner.

Besides, it is rude to ask the Mufti for his evidence. Yes, one may do so in a separate sitting out of politeness and respect for the Mufti.

Thats not just the case with salafees. It is all over the world. Why to pin point one person and then make issue out of it. It is non issue and your time will be better served in learning someother thing then picking on names.

This is also true. On one had you see the muqallids blaming the Salafis for indulging in Usul, and Fiqh etc etc. Yet on the other hand, as soon as their Madhab is attacked, all the Usul al-Fiqh, Hadeeth and Mustalah comes out pouring from their heads, as if they were mujtahids!