Abuz Zubair, could you help me with this?

[Salahadeen]

Just kidding. I just wanted Abuz Zubair to click on the thread.

Actually, I need a refutation of Gibril Hadad from Abuz Zubair.

So basically, I was arguing with one of his minions about how you can't call on anyone other than Allah [swt] for help...and I said "Do you think it would have been ok for Hagar [as] to have called on Jesus [as] for help when she needed water!?" To which the Sufi foot-soldier got an argument from Gibril Hadad's website, as follows:

The licitness of istighātha or calling for the help of a qualified creature is patently established in the Qur‘ān and Sunna, as shown by...al-Bukhārī‘s narration that our mother Hājar, when she was running in search of water between Safā and Marwa, heard a voice and said: —O you whose voice you have made me hear! If there is a ghawth (help/helper) with you (then help me)!“ and an angel appeared at the spot of the spring of Zamzam;

source: http://mac.abc.se/~onesr/d/tqi_e.pdf

I mean, to me it's patently obvious that this hadeeth cannot be used as a proof by them, since Mother Hagar [as] heard a voice and merely called out to ask who the voice was from...that's like if I'm lost in the woods and I hear some voices and I call out for them to help me.

But even though I already thought of that refutation, I wanted to see if any of the Muwahhiddeen on this website had anything else to add? You guys have such good refutations that I wanted to get the best defense and then reply to the Sufi foot soldier.

So anyways, anyone can answer this thread: Abuz Zubair or his ilk.

Fi Aman Allah

[Abu Maryam PK]

u r an american right [wink] ?

[Salahadeen]

u r an american right [wink] ?

I don't get it? Can you explain?

Anyways, I've replied to the Sufi guy with what I said above. Hope that settles it insha-Allah.

['Abd al-Kareem]

Assalamu 'alaykum

That should be enough, akhi. The example you gave of being lost in the woods should do it for him... If you are lost and desperate and you hear some voices, obviously you will call out for help. If you are lost and desperate and you DON'T hear any voices, you should be calling to al-Samee' because only He can hear you...

[Salah ad-Din]

Actually...it was desert..there were no woods, and if you are in desert and hear some voices, you can not believe that it's a human being... (for the sake of justice)

[Salahadeen]

Actually...it was desert..there were no woods, and if you are in desert and hear some voices, you can not believe that it's a human being... (for the sake of justice)

As-Salam Alaykum.

Bismillah.

Yes, but you heard a voice and you merely asked where it was coming from.

The woods example is just an analogy.

Fi Aman Allah