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Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

This is a discussion on Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran! within the Islamic Theology and Ideology forums, part of the Islamic Knowledge category; Some say that Allah described himself as a 'thing' in the Quran and it seems that they present Quran 6:19 ...

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    Default Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    Some say that Allah described himself as a 'thing' in the Quran and it seems that they present Quran 6:19 as an evidence:

    ﴿قُلْ أَىُّ شَىْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَـدةً
    .(Say: "What thing is the most great in witness'') (Quran 6:19)

    How should a Muslim respond to such understanding?

    Quran 6:19 Say: "What thing is the most great in witness'' Say: "Allah is Witness between you and I; this Qur'an has been revealed to me that I may therewith warn you and whomsoever it may reach. Can you verily bear witness that besides Allah there are other gods'' Say "I bear no (such) witness!'' Say: "Only He is God, alone, and truly I am innocent of what you join in worship with Him.'')
    Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions (Quran 4:82)

    'Ibn Taymiyyah Against the Logicians' p. 114:
    'What truth there lies in logic can be known without the logicians'

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic lover View Post
    Some say that Allah described himself as a 'thing' in the Quran and it seems that they present Quran 6:19 as an evidence:

    How should a Muslim respond to such understanding?
    We also use the word here. For example, it's quite common in my country to say something that if translated to English it would be, "Allah is the only thing that provides" and many other similar statements using "the only thing" and "the only one".

    And I'm sure we don't use the word "thing" only after knowing the verse you quoted. It's just... language. It's already there.

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    ^I might have opted for 'Is there any thing greater as a witness?' for the translation. Either way, I did not find any objections to this in any Tafseer.

    Anything:
    n
    a thing of any kind

    Thing:
    n.
    1. An entity, an idea, or a quality perceived, known, or thought to have its own existence.
    Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus - The Free Dictionary

    What's the objection in English?

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    Say, “Whose testimony is the greatest?” Say, “Allah is the witness between me and you, and this Qur’an has been revealed to me so that I should thereby warn you, and whomsoever it may reach. Do you really bear witness that there are other gods along with Allah?” Say, “I bear no such witness.” Say, “In fact, He is one God. I disown what you associate (with Him).”

    (Mufti Taqi Usmanis translation)

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    ^I like that translation.

    It's a phrase that goes together in Arabic, so it's not really saying what the literal translation indicates:

    أيّ شَيْءٍ anything; no matter what; whatever, whatsoever, whichever; which thing? which one?‏

    That's what the Arabic-English dictionary gives, however again, there isn't any objection here of any substance...

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    Bismillah ...

    Sorry I do not have time to translate the following, but you will find in it a discussion of your question:

    وقال العلامة عبد الله الغنيمان في شرح كتاب التوحيد من صحيح البخاري: باب قُلْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَادةً قُلِ اللّهِ ـ فسمى الله تعالى نفسه شيئاً، وسمى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القرآن شيئاً، وهو صفة من صفات الله وقال: كُلُّ شَيْءٍ هَالِكٌ إِلاَّ وَجْهَهُ ـ يريد بهذا أن يطلق على الله تعالى أنه شيء، وكذلك صفاته، وليس معنى ذلك أن الشيء من أسماء الله الحسنى، ولكن يخبر عنه تعالى بأنه شيء، وكذا يخبر عن صفاته بأنها شيء، لأن كل موجود يصح أن يقال: إنه شيء، قال الحافظ: الشيء يساوي الموجود، لغةً، وعرفاً، وأما قولهم: فلان ليس بشيء فهو على طريق المبالغة في الذم، فلذلك وصف بصفة العدم. اهـ.

    وقال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية في مجموع الفتاوى: ويفرق بين دعائه والإخبار عنه، فلا يدعى إلاَّ بالأسماء الحسنى، وأما الإخبار عنه، فلا يكون باسم سيئ، لكن قد يكون باسم حسن، أو باسم ليس بسيئ، وإن لم يحكم بحسنه، مثل اسم شيء، وذات، وموجود.

    وقال ابن القيم في بدائع الفوائد: ما يطلق عليه في باب الأسماء والصفات توقيفي، وما يطلق عليه من الأخبار لا يجب أن يكون توقيفيَّاً، كالقديم، والشيء، والموجود.

    وفي شرح العقيدة الطحاوية للدكتور سفر الحوالي: إن كلمة: شيء ـ هي أعم كلمة، لأنها تشتمل أدق وأدنى ما يسمى، أو ما يرى، أو ما يكون في حيز الوجود وكذلك أعظم ما في الوجود يسمى شيء، كما في قوله تعالى: قُلْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَادَةً قُلِ اللَّهُ شَهِيدٌ بَيْنِي وَبَيْنَكُمْ {الأنعام:19} فكلمة: شيء ـ عامة تطلق عَلَى الكبير والصغير، فإذا قلنا: أي شيء، فهم منه أن الكلمة هي أعم الكلمات، فالله تعالى يطلق عليه شيء. اهـ.

    وأما عن الاحتجاج بقوله تعالى: الله خالق كل شيء ـ فقد أجاب عنه الأصوليون بأن هذا من التخصيص بالعقل كما قال المرداوي: من المخصصات المنفصلة العقل ضروريا كان أم نظريا، فالضروري كقوله تعالى: الله خالق كل شيء {الرعد: 16} فإن العقل قاض بالضرورة أنه لم يخلق نفسه الكريمة، ولا صفاته.


    Source: هل يطلق الشيء على الله تعالى - إسلام ويب - مركز الفتوى

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn Abbas Al-Misri View Post
    Bismillah ...

    Sorry I do not have time to translate the following, but you will find in it a discussion of your question:[CENTER][FONT=tahoma][SIZE=3]
    وقال العلامة عبد الله الغنيمان في شرح كتاب التوحيد من صحيح البخاري: باب قُلْ أَيُّ شَيْءٍ أَكْبَرُ شَهَادةً قُلِ اللّهِ ـ فسمى الله تعالى نفسه شيئاً، وسمى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم القرآن شيئاً، وهو صفة من صفات الله وقال: كُلُّ شَيْءٍ هَالِكٌ إِلاَّ وَجْهَهُ ـ يريد بهذا أن يطلق على الله تعالى أنه شيء، وكذلك صفاته، وليس معنى ذلك أن الشيء من أسماء الله الحسنى، ولكن يخبر عنه تعالى بأنه شيء، وكذا يخبر عن صفاته بأنها شيء، لأن كل موجود يصح أن يقال: إنه شيء، قال الحافظ: الشيء يساوي الموجود، لغةً، وعرفاً، وأما قولهم: فلان ليس بشيء فهو على طريق المبالغة في الذم، فلذلك وصف بصفة العدم. اهـ.

    Source: هل يطلق الشيء على الله تعالى - إسلام ويب - مركز الفتوى
    Jazak Allahu khayraan Akh Ibn Abbas.

    I took care of the largest quote:

    The scholar Abd Allah al-Ghunayman said in his explanation of Kitab at-Tawhid from Sahih al-Bukhari, the chapter of ‘Say: Which thing is greatest as a witness? Say: Allah.’:

    Thus Allah, exalted is He, declared himself as ‘a thing’, and the Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah upon him, designated the Qur’an as ‘a thing’. It is an attribute among the Attributes of Allah, as He said: ‘Every thing shall perish except His Face’, meaning by this that Allah has generalized that He is ‘a thing’ and as such are His Attributes. The meaning is not that ‘thing’ is from the Asma’ al-Husna of Allah, rather He, exalted is He, has informed that He is ‘a thing’. As such He has informed about His Attributes that they are ‘things’ since it is correct to say about everything that exists that it is ‘a thing’. Al-Hafidh said: ‘Thing’ is equivalent to ‘existence’, linguistically and customarily, and as for the saying “So-and-so is nothing”, then it is intended from the route of eloquence as a means of disparagement. So due to that he is described with an attribute of ‘nonexistence’.
    Can someone else volunteer for the others?

    Edit: The only people I can see this being a problem for are the Mutakallimeen, philosophers, Ashaa'irah, Jahmiyyah, and Mu'attilah. Their eyeballs practically fall out of their heads when they read anything like this...
    Last edited by Ibn al-Iskandar; 29th December 2011 at 02:29 PM.

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    Default Re: Allah is a 'thing' as described in Quran!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn al-Iskandar View Post
    ^I might have opted for 'Is there any thing greater as a witness?' for the translation. Either way, I did not find any objections to this in any Tafseer.

    Dictionary, Encyclopedia and Thesaurus - The Free Dictionary

    What's the objection in English?
    Just for posterity, I was thinking more along the lines of the following 'literal' definition when I wrote the above:

    a material object without life or consciousness; an inanimate object.
    The word is just so ambiguous in English that it has both appropriate and inappropriate first definitions depending on which dictionary is utilized...

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