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Any refutations on this ?

This is a discussion on Any refutations on this ? within the Islamic Theology and Ideology forums, part of the Islamic Knowledge category; asalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah i need some explanation about this ahadeeth and their isnaad please Some time after Rasul Allah, ...

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    Junior Member Abu Thar's Avatar
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    asalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah

    i need some explanation about this ahadeeth and their isnaad please



    Some time after Rasul Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), had passed away, 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] was in Najd where one day his foot became numb. As a remedy to alleviate the pain, a person said to him. "Remember the one whom you love the most!" Upon hearing this Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] said "Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace]" and his foot made an immediate recovery from numbness.
    [Imam Bukhari, Adab al Mufrad al Kalim al Tayyab; Hafidhh Ibn Taymiyya and Qadi Shawkani, Tuhfah al Dakireen chapter on Khadirat Rijluhu, and also Imam Nawawi's Kitab al Adkar]

    Hafidhh Ibn Kathir, Imam Tabari and Imam Ibn Athir all wrote [that]:
    During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as- Siddique, may Allah be pleased with Him, there was a battle against the false Prophet Musaylima [of Najd]. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid bin Walid, may Allah be pleased with Him, and the rest of the companions called out "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] and proceeded to win the battle.
    [Tarikh at Tabari, Tarikh Ibn Kathir and Tarikh Qamil by Imam Tabari, Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Ibn Athir and Ibn Jarir in Chapter Musaylima Kadhaab]

    Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Tabari both write that
    After the occasion of Karbala, Sayyida Zaynab, May Allah be well pleased with her, [the sister of Hussayn, may Allah be pleased with Him] and her company were taken as prisoners to Syria. When she passed the dead bodies she proclaimed: "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] Your Hussayn is drenched in blood without a shroud or a grave, and Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace], your daughters are taken prisoners and your children have been killed".
    [Ibn Jarir and Tarikh Ibn Kathir in Chapter of Karbala*]
    Al Hamdulillah for Al Islaam

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Thar View Post
    asalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah
    Wa alaykum as-salam.

    Bismillah.

    Bro, there is a misunderstanding about saying "Ya Rasool-Allah". It is not always forbidden to say.

    Yes, saying "Ya Rasool-Allah Madad" is ALWAYS forbidden to say, at least after the Prophet [s] died.

    As for saying "Ya Rasool-Allah", it depends in what context it is said in. The way the extreme Sufis and Shias say it, yes that is shirk! The reason is that they ask the Prophet [s] for things. So they say "Ya Rasool-Allah Madad" or "Ya Rasool-Allah, fulfill my need" or "Ya Rasool-Allah, remove my hardship", etc.

    But if, for example, you say in durood, "Ya Rasool-Allah" and then send peace and blessings upon him...then that is not haram...rather, we say it in every prayer! You are sending peace and blessings on the Prophet [s], NOT asking him for anything.

    As Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi said:

    My view on this is, that there are various occasions and condotions for saying "Ya Rasulullah"(salalahu alayhi wa salam), and each occasion warrants a different ruling.

    Some time after Rasul Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), had passed away, 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] was in Najd where one day his foot became numb. As a remedy to alleviate the pain, a person said to him. "Remember the one whom you love the most!" Upon hearing this Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] said "Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace]" and his foot made an immediate recovery from numbness.
    [Imam Bukhari, Adab al Mufrad al Kalim al Tayyab; Hafidhh Ibn Taymiyya and Qadi Shawkani, Tuhfah al Dakireen chapter on Khadirat Rijluhu, and also Imam Nawawi's Kitab al Adkar]
    When the Arabs used to get hurt, they would mention the name of the person they love the most. This is true amongst Pakistanis as well. When I stub my toe, I say "Ya Mama!" Does this mean that I am asking my mom to remove my pain? NO! I am not asking her for anything. It's just a natural thing for a human to say the name of the person they love most when they are hurt.

    This is mentioned in the narration itself, where the person says "Remember the one whom you love the most!" So if a person loves his two year old daughter the most, and he calls out her name in pain, does this mean he is actually asking his helpless two year old daughter to help him!? No!

    Similarly, the Arabs used to say "O my grief" or "O my sorrow" ...does this mean that they were calling on their grief or sorrow for help or aid?

    Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi said:

    Another occasion is when people in love, sometimes, call the name of the beloved or when a mother calls the name of her deceased child, knowing her voice would not reach him (the deceased) in his grave, nor can he respond to her call, she only does so due to the maternal love for the child.

    Similarly those who possess true love for Rasulullah salalahu alayhi wa salam and who only gain comfort in taking his name knowing that Rasulullah salalahu alayhi wa salam cannot hear them. The calling of "Ya rasulullah" (salalahu alayhi wa salam) of such people is permissible provided there exists no corruption in their beliefs.

    Hafidhh Ibn Kathir, Imam Tabari and Imam Ibn Athir all wrote [that]:
    During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as- Siddique, may Allah be pleased with Him, there was a battle against the false Prophet Musaylima [of Najd]. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid bin Walid, may Allah be pleased with Him, and the rest of the companions called out "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] and proceeded to win the battle.
    [Tarikh at Tabari, Tarikh Ibn Kathir and Tarikh Qamil by Imam Tabari, Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Ibn Athir and Ibn Jarir in Chapter Musaylima Kadhaab]
    This was just a battle cry. They were not asking for the Prophet [s] to help them in battle. If that were the case, they would have said "Ya Muhammad madad"....rather, this was just a battle cry..like people yell "Remember the Alamo" or "bombs away!" If, for example, a certain Muslim sister's honor were tarnished, (say her name was Bushra), and the Muslims waged war against that city for this reason, then they would yell out "Ya Bushra", meaning O Bushra we will avenge you! Again, not asking for help or aid.

    This is like how the poets use the phrase "ya Muhammad". Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi said:

    Poets, sometimes address the mountains, animals, birds, etc in their poetry. None of these poets hold the belief that these objects listen and respond to their poetry. These are merely imaginary words upon which no reality is determined.

    Similarly when poets address Rasulullah salalahu alayhi wa salam or any other saint in this manner, no truth or reality is determined in their address. I regard such forms of address permissible

    Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Tabari both write that
    After the occasion of Karbala, Sayyida Zaynab, May Allah be well pleased with her, [the sister of Hussayn, may Allah be pleased with Him] and her company were taken as prisoners to Syria. When she passed the dead bodies she proclaimed: "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] Your Hussayn is drenched in blood without a shroud or a grave, and Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace], your daughters are taken prisoners and your children have been killed".
    [Ibn Jarir and Tarikh Ibn Kathir in Chapter of Karbala*]
    Again, there is no request for help or aid.

    And also, this is just the emotional rhetorical usage of the name, like it is done in poetry. Please see my earlier quote of Maulana Muhammad Yusuf Ludhianvi.

    Fi Aman Allah
    Last edited by Salahadeen; 13th October 2008 at 11:22 AM.

    "Victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness" -Saladin

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    Scaffolding 'Abd al-Kareem's Avatar
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    I think, when ahl al-bid'ah approaches you with narrations, the first thing to do is check the isnaad. Most times you are 'off the hook' at that point because these people usually come with weak and fabricated reports.

    If the isnaad is strong enough, then look for the actual Arabic text. As is the case with shi'a and neo-sufis, their horrid english translations will sometimes imply things which, if you would turn to the original Arabic, cannot even come close to what is clearly and implicitly stated.

    If the Arabic is also ambiguous or it seems like they actually have something here, then you will most definitely find that the scholars of Ahl al-Sunnah have certainly commented on these narrations and explained them.

    In shaa' Allah some knowledgeable brothers will comment and clear up the matter for us regarding these specific narrations.
    ___
    It was my understanding that the battle cry was 'Waa Muhammadaa" which is different than "Ya Muhammad."
    DISCLAIMER: Before you read any of my posts or accept any of my arguments, keep in mind that the above has been posted by a layman who, in most cases, would have been better off keeping silent.
    ~~~

    ۖ
    And [all] faces will be humbled before the Ever-Living, the Sustainer of existence.
    And he who carries injustice will have failed.
    [20:111]

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    Some time after Rasul Allah, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace), had passed away, 'Abd Allah Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] was in Najd where one day his foot became numb. As a remedy to alleviate the pain, a person said to him. "Remember the one whom you love the most!" Upon hearing this Ibn 'Umar [May Allah be pleased with Him] said "Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace]" and his foot made an immediate recovery from numbness.
    [Imam Bukhari, Adab al Mufrad al Kalim al Tayyab; Hafidhh Ibn Taymiyya and Qadi Shawkani, Tuhfah al Dakireen chapter on Khadirat Rijluhu, and also Imam Nawawi's Kitab al Adkar]
    A Research Paper

    On the oft Quoted Weak Hadeeth of Abdullah ibn Umar (Radhiallaahu Anhuma)

    The Narration

    The foot of Ibn Umar went numb so a man said to him mention the name of the person most beloved to you from amongst the people so he said, Yaa Muhammad.

    References

    Adaab al-Mufrad (no.992 ch. no.438 pg.261), Ibn as-Sunnee in Amal al-Yaum Wal-Lailah (no.168) with a Marfoo (raised) chain and from Ibn Abbaas without this chain)

    The Chain

    Bukhaari from Abu Nuaym from Sufyaan from Abee Ishaaq from Abdur-Rahmaan bin Saad and he said..

    The Imaam the Muhaddith Naasir ud deen al-Albaanee said this hadeeth is weak in Saheeh al-Kalimut-Tayyib (no.235) aswell as in his checking of Adaab al-Mufrad.


    The Investigation

    Firstly

    This chain contains Abee Ishaaq and he is as-Sabeeee Amr bin Abdullaah (d.127H) (al-Jarh Wat-Tadeel (6/242), Tahdheeb (8/63), Tadhkirrah (1/114), Shadhraat (1/174) and Siyar (5/392).


    And Concerning him Haafidh Ibn Hajr said,

    He became forgetful at the end but trustworthy. (Taqreeb ut-Tahdheeb (no.5100 pg.739, with the checking of Abul-Ishbaal)


    Ibn as-Salaah (d.643H) said whilst explaining the ruling on the narrator who started to forget at the end of his life,

    The ruling concerning such narrators is that the ahadeeth narrated by them before they started to forget are accepted and the ahadeeth they narrated after they started to forget are not accepted. Also concerning the narrators there are doubts about (is which ahadeeth of theirs) was narrated before or after they became forgetful are not accepted. (Muqaddimah Ibn as-Salaah Fee Uloom al-Hadeeth (pg.220, Category no.62). He then went onto mention Sufyaan at-Thawree as one such narrator.


    Shaikh Ibn as-Salaah then went onto mention,

    Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee was also forgetful and it is said Sufyaan ibn Uyainah heard from Sabeeee after he started to forget. Abu Yaala Khaleelee has also mentioned this. (Muqaddimah Ibn as-Salaah (pg.220)


    Allaamah Ibn Katheer said, (d.774H),

    Those who became forgetful in later life, from them were Ataa bin Saaib, Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee. al-Haafidh Abu Yaala Khaleelee said, Ibn Uyainah heard from (Sabeeee) after he started to forget. (Ikhtisaar Uloom al-Hadeeth of Ibn Katheer Maa Sharh al-Baaith al-Hatheeth (pg.229) of Allaamah Ahmad Muhammad Shaakir and Ikhtisaar Uloom al-Hadeeth (pg.190) with he notes and explanation of Saalah Muhammad Awaidah.


    Imaam Nawawee and Imaam Suyootee mention,

    And from them is Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee, those who forget from amongst the trustworthy narrators. (Tadreeb ar-Raawee Sharh Taqreeb (2/371-373) with the checking of Abdul-Wahhaab Abdul-Lateef and in another edition (2/895-897) with the checking of Abu Qutaibah Nazar Muhammad al-Faryaabee)


    Imaam Nawawee said in his Explanation of Saheeh Muslim,

    From those narrators who started to forget are.Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee (Sharh Saheeh Muslim (1/34)


    Imaam Nawawee also said,

    Ibn Uyainah heard from him (ie Abu Ishaaq) after he started to forget. (Taqreeb Maa Tadreeb (2/897)


    Imaam Suyootee then said in explanation of this,

    Khaleelee said Sufyaan heard from him after he started to forget. (Tadreeb ar-Raawee (2/897), al-Irshaad (1/355)


    Imaam Dhahabee said,

    He became old and made mistakes, but did not become forgetful so when Ibn Uyainah heard from him he only started to forget a little bit. (Meezaan ul-Eitidaal (no.6399 5/326), Tadreeb ar-Raawee (2/897-898).



    Imaam Fusawee said,

    Some people of knowledge have said he became forgetful and he is rejected due to forgetfulness in the narrations 0f Ibn Uyainah. (Meezaan ul-Eitidaal (5/326)



    Imaam Yahyaa ibn Maeen said,

    Ibn Uyainah heard from him after he started to forget (or when he became forgetful). (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (no.5263 8/55)

    Haafidh Abul-Wafaa Sabt bin al-Ajamee mentioned Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee in his book of narrators who became forgetful. (see his book al-Egtibaat Bi Maarifah Ramee Bil-Ikhtilaat (pg.11).

    Shaikh al-Ustaadh al-Allaamah Hamaad bin Muhammad al-Ansaari also mentions Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee from those narrators whose memories deteriorated and they started to forget. (See his book Yaane ath-Thamr Fee Mastalah Ahlil-Athar Juzz 1 pg.48)

    NOTE

    Both Imaams Sufyaan ath-Thawree and Ibn Uyainah narrated from Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee. The scholars of hadeeth have elucidated the Sufyaan in this chain is Ibn Uyainah. However it is difficult to make Taayyun, so other possibilities are also discussed.



    The Ruling on the Narrator whos Memory Deteriorated or He became Forgetful

    Ibn as-Salaah (d.643H) said,

    The ruling concerning such narrators is that the ahadeeth narrated by them before they started to forget are accepted and the ahadeeth they narrated after they started to forget are not accepted. Also concerning the narrators there are doubts about (is which ahadeeth of theirs) was narrated before or after they became forgetful are not accepted. (Muqaddimah Ibn as-Salaah Fee Uloom al-Hadeeth (pg.220)



    Imaams Nawawee and Suyootee said,

    And it is accepted that which has been narrated from them before their memory deteriorated, but their narrations are not accepted which were narrated after (memory deteriorated) or their narrations upon which there are doubts. (Tadreeb ar-Raawee Fee Sharh Taqreeb an-Nawawee (2/896) in another edition (2/372).

    Shaikh al-Allaamah Haafidh bin Ahmad al-Hakamee (d.1377H) also mentioned the statement of Haafidh Ibn Hajr from Nazhatan-Nazhar. He also mentioned the statement of Imaam Nawawee from Sharh Saheeh Muslim on Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee of him being from amongst the narrators whose memory deteriorated. (See Daleel al-Falaah Lee Tahqeeq Fan al-Istilah (pg.152-153)


    Shaikh Dr. Mahmood at-Tahaan said,

    1. The narrations they narrated before their memories deteriorated are accepted.

    2. The narrations narrated after their memories deteriorated are rejected.

    3. Those narrations in which it cannot be ascertained whether the narrations were narrated before or after their memories deteriorated, then there is abstinence upon them up until further clarity. (Tayseer Mastalah al-Hadeeth (pg.124)


    See also

    Balgatul-Hatheeth Ilaal Ilm al-Hadeeth (pg.52) of Imaam al-Allaamah Jamaal ud deen al-Mahaasain Abdul-Haadee a-Maqdisee (d.909H).

    al-Taqayyid Wal-Aydah (pg.422-443) of Haafidh al-Araaqee

    al-Maqnaa (2/662-667) of Ibn al-Mulqin

    al-Yawaaqiyat Wad-Darar (2/476-477) of Allaamah Minawee.

    Muajam Mastalahaat al-Hadeeth (pg.112-113).


    Secondly

    Abu Ishaaq is also a Mudallis

    Haafidh Ibn Sabt al-Ajamee said,

    A major Successor (tabiee) and famous for tadlees. (at-Tabayyeen Fee Asmaa al-Mudalliseen (pg.9)


    Haafidh Ibn Hajr said,

    Famous for tadlees, he is a successor and trustworthy. Nasaaee and others have also said this. (Tareef Ahlul-Taqdees Bi-Maraatab al-Mawsoofeen Bit-Tadlees al-Maroof beh Tabaqaat al-Mudalliseen (no.91) pg.101 of the third level)


    Imaam Ibn Hibbaan said,

    He is a mudallis. (ath-Thiqaat (5/177), (2/2/64) Qalmee, Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (8/55)

    Hasan Karbeesee and Abu Jaafar at-Tabaree mention him to be from amongst the mudalliseen narrators (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (8/55).


    Ibn Maan said,

    Aamsh and Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee rendered the ahadeeth of the people of koofah to be corruptive due to tadlees. (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (8/55)


    The Two Imaams Sufyaan Ibn Uyainah and Sufyaan ath-Thawree and Tadlees

    As indicated above from the words of the scholars of hadeeth the Sufyaan in the chain is Ibn Uyainah. No doubt it is difficult to ascertain which Sufyaan this is whether Thawree or Ibn Uyainah so then the scholars of hadeeth look at the student of the Sufyaan and by this they make taayyun which Sufyaan this is. However the student in this narration is Abu Nuaym, which is another problem as he was the student of again both Sufyaans.

    He narrated from Sufyaan ath-Thawree (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (no.2538 4/102) and from Sufyaan Ibn Uyainah (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (no.2544 4/107).

    So for arguments if the Mukhaalifeen (opposers) say the Sufyaan in this chain is ath-Thawree and not Ibn Uyainah, then

    It is KNOWN Imaam, Ameer al-Mumineen Fil-Haadeth al-Hujjah al-Aabid, Sufyaan ath-Thawree was an Imaam of Ahlus-Sunnah and a preserver of hadeeth of the highest level yet still he was a mudallis

    Imaam Dhahabee said,

    Sufyaan would to tadlees from weak narrators. (Meezaan ul-Eitidaal (2/169), Siyaar Alaam an-Nabulaa (7/242, 7/274).

    Haafidh Ibn Hajr also said he was a mudallis. (Tabaqaat al-Mudalliseen (p.32 no.51) and Taqreeb ut-Tahdheeb (no.2458 pg.394) in another ed. (p.197), an-Nukt (2/621).

    Imaam Abdullaah ibn al-Mubaarak also said Sufyaan ath-Thawree would do tadlees. (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (4/102)

    As well as the following Imaams.

    Imaam Bukhaari (al-Ellal al-Kabeer (2/966) of Tirmidhee and at-Tamheed (1/34).

    Imaam Nasaaee. (Tabaqaat al-Mudalliseen (p.32 no.51))

    Yahyaa ibn Maeen. (Sharh Ellal at-Tirmidhee (1/357-358) and al-Kifaayah Fee Ilm ar-Riwaayah (p.361) of Khateeb al-Baghdaadee.

    Yahyaa ibn Saeed al-Qattaan. (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (11/192)

    Khateeb al-Baghdaadee (al-Kifaayah(p.361)

    Haafidh Ibn as-Saalah (Muqaddimah pg.60)

    Abu Mahmood al-Maqdisee. (Qaseedah Fil Mudalliseen (p.47, second poem)

    Salaah ud deen al-Laaee. (Jaame at-Tahseel Fee Ahkaam al-Maraaseel (p.99)

    Haafidh Ibn Rajab. (Sharh Illal at-Tirmidhee (1/358)

    Imaam Nawawee and Imaam Suyootee (Tadreeb ar-Raawee Sharh Taqreeb (1/263) in another ed. (1/230).


    What is Tadlees

    A Mudallis is the one who commits Tadlees which is when a narrator narrates from someone he does not directly hear from and omits the person he really hears from (See al-Fiyyah (1/180) of Haafidh al-Araaqee, see also Nazhatun-Nazhar (p.82), an-Nukt (2/614) of Ibn Hajr and Tayseer Mastalah al-Hadeeth (p.78) of Dr. Mahmood at-Tahhaan.


    The Ruling Concerning a Mudallis Narrator.

    Imaam Ibn as-Salaah (d.643H) said,

    The ruling is that the only narration of a Mudallis that will be accepted is the one in which he clarifies who he heard it from, and this is upon every that individual who commits Tadlees once. (Muqaddimah Ibn as-Salaah (p.60) another ed. (pg.99).

    Imaam Ibn as-Salaah said this was the position of Imaam Shaafiee. (see ar-Risaalah (pg.379-380), Sharh Ellal at-Tirmidhee (1/353) and Muqaddimah Ibn as-Salaah (p.60)

    Imaam Yahyaa ibn Maeen (d.233H) said,

    The Mudallis is not a proof in is Tadlees. (al-Kifaayah (p.362) and Sharh Ellal at-Tirmidhee (1/353) and (1/357-358)


    Other Chain For This Hadeeth

    Ibn as-Sunnee mentions 3 more chains for this hadeeth they are as follows,

    The First Chain

    Muhammad bin Ibraaheem al-Anmatee and Amr bin Junaid bin Eesaa from Mahmood from Abu Bakr bin Aayaash from Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee from Abu Shubah

    The Second Chain

    Muhammad bin Khaalid Muhammad Barzaaee from Haajib bin Suleimaan from Muhammad bin Musab from Israaeel from Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee from Hushaim.

    The Third Chain

    Ahmad bin Hasan Soofee from Yahyaa bin Jaad from Zuhair from Abu Ishaaq from Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Saad

    Then since the incident mentioned at the end of these chains seems to be the same one, then Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee has performed Idhtiraab in the hadeeth.


    What is Idhtiraab

    Idhtiraab is when a narrator interchanges the names in a chain he sometimes narrates from person A and then sometimes narrates from Person B (the same incident). This is idhtiraab of the chain, there is also idhtiraab of the matn (text). There is a lot of variance in the statement of the scholars on its exact definition but it can be summarized as below.

    Haafidh Ibn Hajr said,

    If by changing the name of a narrator a trustworthy narrator is opposed, and none of them can be given precedence over the other, then such a hadeeth is mudhtarib. (Nazhatun-Nazhar (pg.81).

    See also

    Tawdheh al-Afkaar (1/221) of Sanaanee.

    Muaqaddimah Ibn as-Saalah (pg.73).

    Ikhtisaar Uloom al-Hadeeth (pg.54).

    al-Baaith al-Hatheeth (pg.78).

    Taqayyid Wal-Aydah (pg.124).

    Fath al-Mugeeth (1/237).

    Tadreeb ar-Raawee (1/308).

    an-Nukt (2/772-802).

    Bulgatul-Hatheeth Ilaa Imal-Hadeeth (pg.26).



    Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee and Idhtiraab.

    Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee used to do idhtiraab in his hadeeth and this is hadeeth is a prime example of that.

    (see al-Ellal (1/193) of Imaam Daarqutnee,

    al-Baaith al-Hatheeth (pg.79),

    Tadreeb ar-Raawee (1/312)

    and an-Nukt (2/772).

    So these three narrations are also weak from this angle. As well as Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee being a central narrator in all three chains the previous criticisms mentioned about him that his memory deteriorated in later life and that he was a mudallis, render all three narrations to be weak.

    Further Analysis of the First Chain of Ibn as-Sunnee.

    Firstly

    The chain contains Abu Bakr bin Aayaash. Many scholars of hadeeth of eminent level graded him to be trustworthy and reliable, however a greater majority scholars of hadeeth declared him to be weak, having bad memory and one who made many mistakes.

    Imaams Bukhaari and Ibn Khuzaimah used him in a narration (s) they transmitted in their Saheehs. Abdullah ibn Mubaarak praised him. Yazeed bin Haaroon said, Good and the learned. al-Ejlee said, Trustworthy who made mistakes. And he also said, He made mistakes. Sufyaan ath-Thawree said, There are errors in his hadeeth and there was something with his memory.

    Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal said, Trustworthy, made many mistakes. Ibn Saad said, Trustworthy, truthful but made many mistakes. Imaam Saajee said, Truthful, but had mistakes. Imaam Ibn Hibbaan said, Would make mistakes in what he narrated. (Imaam Ibn Hibbaan also included him in his book of trustworthy narrators (ath-Thiqaat)

    Yaqoob bin Shaybah said, His hadeeth contained idhtiraab. Abu Umar said, There are mistakes in his hadeeth and his memory had something in it. Abu Ahmad Haakim said, He is not a Haafidh according to me. Muhammad bin Abdullaah bin Numair said, He is weak. (see Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (12/38-40) and Meezaan ul-Eitidaal no.10024 7/337-338)

    Imaam Abu Dawood said he was trustworthy. There are two statements concerning him by Imaam Yahyaa ibn Maeen. Once he said he is trustworthy and another time he said weak. (See Taareekh Baghdaad.)

    Imaam Tirmidhee said, Made many mistakes. (Tirmidhee (2/84).

    Imaam Ibn Hazm said, He is weak. (al-Muhalla (7/485).

    Imaam Baihaqee said, Not a Haafidh. (Sunan al-Kubraa 4/12).

    Imaam Dhahabee said, His hadeeth are incorrect and have errors. (Meezaan ul-Eitidaal no.10024 7/337-338).

    Haafidh Ibn Hajr said, When he became old his memory went bad and deteriorated in later times, trustworthy and a worshipper, but his book is authentic. (Taqreeb ut-Tahdheeb (pg.576), Fath ul-Baaree from Taujeeh al-Qaaree (pg.336).


    Secondly

    Abu Bakr bin Aayaash and Ikhtilaat (forgetfulness)

    Abu Bakr bin Aayaashs memory deteriorated and he became forgetful as mentioned by the scholars of hadeeth as mentioned above.

    See al-Kawaakib an-Neeraat Fee Maarifah Min Ikhtilaat Min Rawaah ath-Thiqaat (pg.439-444) of Ibn Akyaal.

    al-Egtibaat Bi Maarifah Min Ramee Bil-Ikhtilaat (pg.26).

    Nasb ur-Raayah (1/409) of Zailaaee.

    Imaam Ibn Hibbaan has mentioned this more clearly in his book ath-Thiqaat he says,

    When Ibn Aayaash became old his memory deteriorated. When he would narrate he would make mistakes and became forgetful. The correct position is that which he forgot or made an error in it is to be abandoned and the narration without the errors will be used as evidence. (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (12/39).

    And an important point:
    Haafidh Ibn Hajr said, His (Abu Bakr bin Aayaashs) hadeeth in Saheeh al-Bukhaari are only used for support and not as the Usool (as the base or foundation).(Haadee as-Saaree Muqaddimah Fath ul-Baaree (pg.456).

    Thirdly

    In the chain is a narrator who is Abu Shubah and it cannot be established who he is and what his status is.

    Further Analysis of the Second Chain.

    Muhammad bin Khaalid Muhammad Barzaaee from Haajib bin Suleimaan from Muhammad bin Musab from Israaeel from Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee from Hushaim.


    Muhammad bin Musab would make many mistakes.


    Haafidh Ibn Hajr said,


    Truthful but makes many mistakes. (Taqreeb ut-Tahdheeb (pg.471)


    Imaam Ibn Hibbaan said,


    He was from amongst those people whos memories deteriorated to the extent that he would mix and confuse the chains and he would make the mursal narrations into Marfoo (ie raised to the Messenger of Allaah). So if he is alone (in reporting) then his narration is not to be used as evidence. (Mukhtasar adh-Dhuafaa (pg.106).


    Imaam Ibn Abee Haatim said,


    I asked Abu Zurah about Muhammad bin Musab al-Qursaanee? So he replied, He is truthful in hadeeth but he narrates rejected narrations. So I said, Does this not make him weak.. He (Abu Zurah) replied, I think he used to make mistakes in them. I then asked my father (Imaam Abee Haatim) about him (ie Muhammad bin Musab) so he said, He is weak in hadeeth. Then I told him what Abu Zurah had said, so my father said, It is not like this according to me, he is weak as he narrates rejected narrations. (al-Jarh Wat-Tadeel (4/102).


    Also another problem in this chain is that the teacher of Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee and a narrator in this chain is majhool (unknown) and that is Hushaim bin Hansh.


    Imaam Abu Bakr Khateeb al-Baghdaadee said,


    The unknown according to the people of hadeeth (Ashaabul-Hadeeth) is the narrator who is not known to be a student of knowledge and nor do the scholars know him and they do not know his hadeeth except through one chain. Like Umarzee Murrah, Jabbaar Taee, Abdullaah bin Aghar al-Hamdaanee, Hushaim bin Hansh, Maalik bin Aghar, Saeed bin Dheelawaan, Qais bin Karkam, Dhamr bin Maalik, from all of them Abu Ishaaq Sabeeee is alone in reporting from them. (al-Kifaayah Fee Ilm ar-Riwaayah (pg.88).


    Abu Ishaaq Juzjaanee said,


    Abu Ishaaq used to narrate from unknown people and their narrations did not spread amongst the people of knowledge, except that Abu Ishaaq is the only one who narrates them. According to me it is better to abstain from them. (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (8/67).


    Further Analysis of the Third Chain.

    Ahmad bin Hasan Soofee from Yahyaa bin Jaad from Zuhair from Abu Ishaaq from Abdur-Rahmaan ibn Saad


    Zuhair bin Muawiyyah is in the third chain and he heard from Abu Ishaaq as-Sabeeee after he started to forget and when his memory deteriorated.


    Haafidh Ibn Hajr said,


    Thiqatun-Thabt (affirmed trustworthy), except that he heard from Abu Ishaaq at the end. (Taqreeb ut-Tahdheeb (pg.167)


    The likes of this has also been mentioned in Tadreeb ar-Raawee (1/263) and Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (3/351-352).


    Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal said about his hadeeth from Abu Ishaaq,

    Weak and he heard from him at the end (when his memory faded).


    Imaam Yahyaa ibn Maeen said,

    He heard from Abu Ishaaq after he started to forget.

    Abu Haatim said,

    Zuhair is beloved to us in everything from the Israaeel (narrations), except the hadeeth of Abu Ishaaq. (Tahdheeb ut-Tahdheeb (3/351-352).


    Lastly

    In some of the manuscripts the words Yaa is not present just the name of the Messenger of Allaah. (Fadhallaa us-Samad Sharh Adaab al-Mufrad (2/429).


    Also this hadeeth is not Marfoo (raised) it is mawqoof ie stops at a successor. So in this regard Imaam Shawkaanee said,


    It is not in this (ie hadeeth) that the command was Marfoo (raised). (Tuhfatul-Dhaakireen (pg.239).

    Hafidhh Ibn Kathir, Imam Tabari and Imam Ibn Athir all wrote [that]:
    During the Khilafa of Abu Bakr as- Siddique, may Allah be pleased with Him, there was a battle against the false Prophet Musaylima [of Najd]. When the battle commenced, the Muslims lost their footing at which point Khalid bin Walid, may Allah be pleased with Him, and the rest of the companions called out "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] and proceeded to win the battle.
    [Tarikh at Tabari, Tarikh Ibn Kathir and Tarikh Qamil by Imam Tabari, Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Ibn Athir and Ibn Jarir in Chapter Musaylima Kadhaab]
    The chain contain unknown narrators and as far as I remember even Sayf ibn Umar who is discarded.


    Hafidhh Ibn Kathir and Imam Tabari both write that
    After the occasion of Karbala, Sayyida Zaynab, May Allah be well pleased with her, [the sister of Hussayn, may Allah be pleased with Him] and her company were taken as prisoners to Syria. When she passed the dead bodies she proclaimed: "Ya Muhammad!" [May Allah bless him and grant him peace] Your Hussayn is drenched in blood without a shroud or a grave, and Ya Muhammad! [May Allah bless him and grant him peace], your daughters are taken prisoners and your children have been killed".
    [Ibn Jarir and Tarikh Ibn Kathir in Chapter of Karbala*]
    Don't know about this one.
    Last edited by Adeel; 13th October 2008 at 07:04 PM.

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    Aim High. Abul Hasan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jund-al-islam View Post
    It was my understanding that the battle cry was 'Waa Muhammadaa" which is different than "Ya Muhammad."
    It was Waa Muhammadaa, and not Ya Muhammad. Similarly, it was Wa Islamah, wa Mua'atasimah etc. There's a difference.

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    Excellent post, bro Adeel. Jazakh-Allah khair.

    "Victory is changing the hearts of your opponents by gentleness and kindness" -Saladin

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    And nobody should be confused by what Ahlul Bidah say that their narration is in Bukhari or Muslim, because all the narrations of mudallisin with the mode "An" are only for support in the two Sahihs.

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    as wr wb

    barakAllahu feekum
    may Allaah increase your 'Ilm

    AMEEN
    Al Hamdulillah for Al Islaam

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