Ashari/Maturdism - majority argument
This is a discussion on Ashari/Maturdism - majority argument within the Beliefs and Fundamentals forums, part of the Main Topics category; It is claimed by Mufti Desai of Deobandi Ashari school that their aqeedah is also correct on the basis of ...
- 11th June 2007 #1
Ashari/Maturdism - majority argument
It is claimed by Mufti Desai of Deobandi Ashari school that their aqeedah is also correct on the basis of the following:
''Shaikh Salama Azzami Qudhai mentioned a scale granted by Nabi (sallallahu alaihi wasallam) by which we could judge who are on the right in Aqeedah and make up the Ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah. The measure is the majority of the Ummah ie. the majority of the ummah would always be on aqeedah of the ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah.
Now if we take a quick survey of the Muslims in the world we would find that while the Wahabis make up a minority, even in the Arab lands, with probably only Saudia containing a majority of them, the remainder of the ummah are on the Ashari and Maturidi Aqeedah eg.200 million Muslims in Indonesia, about 400 million in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Afghanistan, another 150 million in China, Malaysia etc, hundreds of millions in Africa, millions in Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Yemen, Palestine etc; all these are ashari's and maturidi's who make up the ahlus sunnah wal jama'ah. '' Unquote.
How should such claim be refuted from the Sunni point of view?
- 11th June 2007 #2
if we ask the ummah who said alim laam meem in surah 2 verse 1bthey will say ALLAH Ta'ala.
if you asked them 'can ALLAH Ta'ala do what he wills when he wills' they will say yes!
Thats why they(the 'awwam) are not 'ash'aris or maturidis
if someone went to the 'awwam and said: "ALLAH Ta'ala didn't say alif laam meem your gonna get it! or your going to a mental institute.
Last edited by Abu'l 'Eyse; 11th June 2007 at 01:32 PM."Sit with one whose limbs address you, not his mouth." Sahl ibn `Abd Allah ibn Yunus, Abu Muhammad al-Tustari (d. 283), may Allah be well-pleased with him.
قال إبن عمر: "ولا يكن في قولك فضل على فعلك" ,أخرج البيهقي: شعب الإيمان وابن حجر العسقلاني: الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة
Ibn 'Umar said: "And do not let your words be in excess to your actions", Al-Baihaqi: Shu'ab al-Imaan and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani: Al-Isaabah fee Taymeez as-Sahaaba
Justice for those who are oppressed!
- 11th June 2007 #3
- Join Date
- May 2004
How do they know this? What is their empirical data that proves this? Anyone can make up a claim and banter it around, but without concrete evidence it means nothing.
- 11th June 2007 #4
- Join Date
- Mar 2005
Erm...I guarantee you that the vast majority of Muslims don't even know what ash'arism is, let alone following and calling to it. The point being: most of the ummah is made up of laymen, you and me included. Most laymen hold many opinions that contradict ash'arism- I've heard many stories about even illiterate people believing in 'uluww, and even six year-olds. It's the fitrah.
And Abuz Zubair mentioned that in the Tabyin, ibn Asakir basically says that ash'aris are a minority, but that the truth are always a minority.
- 11th June 2007 #5
- Join Date
- Jul 2006
Response from Sheikh Uthaymeen in his book "al-Qawaa'idul-Muthlaa fee Sifaatillaahi wa Asmaa'ihil-Husna."
Q: How could the madhhab of the asharee be falsehood when is has been said that they make of about 95% of the Muslim population?
Response: We do not agree that the Asharees make up this much of Muslim population, with all the existing sects out there. This claim needs to be substantiated with evidence of a proper and precise count.
Even if we accepted that they make up this amount, or even more, this would not mean that they are protected from error by way of it, since it is the consensus of all the Muslims that will be protect us from error, not just the agreement of the majority of them.1
Furthermore, it is established that the Muslims were united a long time ago upon the opposite of what the people of ta'weel are upon. For the righteous Salaf were the very heart of the this nation, and they were the Companions, the very best generation, their students who followed them in righteousness, and the Imaams of the guidance after them. They were all united upon the affirmation of the Names and Attributes that Allah had affirmed for Himself and what His Messenger had affirmed for Him. They also agreed that the texts are to be understood according to their apparent meanings that are befitting for Allah the Exalted, without tahreef (distorting them), ta'teel (negating them), takyeef (seeking after their specific details), or tamtheel (likening them to the Creation).
They were the best generation due to the statement of the Messenger2 and their consensus on an issue is a binding proof, since it represents the true understanding and application of the Book and the Sunnah. Proofs of their consensus on this issue have been presented in section four, “Principles Concerning the Textual Evidences for Allah's Names and Attributes.”
1Hadeeth related by at-Tirmidhee, Ibn Majah, and others, upon the authority of Abdullah Ibn Umar, “Verily, my nation will not unite upon misguidance.”
2Hadith of Abdullah Ibn Masood related by Bukhari and Muslim “The best of the people are my generation, then those after them, then those after them.”الْمَالُ وَالْبَنُونَ زِينَةُ الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَالْبَاقِيَاتُ الصَّالِحَاتُ خَيْرٌ عِندَ رَبِّكَ ثَوَاباً وَخَيْرٌ أَمَلاً
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