Did Ibn Qayyim and Ibn Taymiyyah accept mawlid?
This is a discussion on Did Ibn Qayyim and Ibn Taymiyyah accept mawlid? within the Beliefs and Fundamentals forums, part of the Main Topics category; Lately I've been seeing Ash'aris and Sufis claiming that they did. Anyone got link to refutations of these claims??...
- 20th April 2008 #1
Did Ibn Qayyim and Ibn Taymiyyah accept mawlid?
Lately I've been seeing Ash'aris and Sufis claiming that they did. Anyone got link to refutations of these claims??
- 20th April 2008 #2
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
Allaahu'alim, from what I know, this is true of Ibn al Qayyim, Ibn Taymiyya, and Ibn Kathir. I'd like to know more about this myself.
- 20th April 2008 #3
Basically, the sufis took what he said out of context. Ibn Taymiyya's whole book is refuting the idea of innovated festivals, but these people took a quote out of it (probably where Ibn T quotes what the sufis say) and they quote that, claiming that he permitted it. Allaahu a'lam if i'm 100% right, but thats the basic idea behind it.
Someone will post the details in a little while insha Allah.
- 20th April 2008 #4
- Join Date
- Apr 2008
It is better to use specific allegations and refute them.
For example, first Google hit (I assume that's where most people will likelt end up when researching the subject):
Shaikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyya's Opinion on the Celebration of the Mawlid
This is Imam Ibn Taymiyya's opinion about Mawlid from: "the Collected Fatwas," ("Majma' Fatawi Ibn Taymiyya,") Vol. 23, p. 163: "fa-t'adheem al-Mawlid wat-tikhaadhuhu mawsiman qad yaf'alahu ba'ad an-naasi wa yakunu lahu feehi ajra `adheem lihusni qasdihi t'adheemihi li-Rasulillahi, salla-Allahu `alayhi wa sallam"
"To celebrate and to honor the birth of the Prophet (s) and to take it as an honored season, as some of the people are doing, is good and in it there is a great reward, because of their good intentions in honoring the Prophet (s)."
Ibn Qayyim's Opinion on Recitation of the Prophet's (s) Birthday
Allama Ibn Qayyim al Jawziyyah, the best and most reknowned student of Shaikh ul-Islam Ibn Taymiyya, writes, on page 498 of "Madarij as-Salikin,"
"Listening to a good voice celebrating the birthday of the Prophet (s) or celebrating any of the holy days in our history gives peace to the heart, and gives the listener light from the Prophet (s) to his heart, and he will drink more from the Muhammadan spring (`ayn al-Muhammadiyya)."
- 20th April 2008 #5
here is the complete quote by Ibn Taimiyyah rahimahu Allah, which was quoted by a bro in sunniforum
I've noticed that a lot of Sufi sites like this one are misquoting Ibn Taymiyyah's view on Mawlid. This has been done by this brother here on SunniForum as well:
And this intentional misquote is being used on many popular "anti-Wahhabi" websites. Many of them are considered reputable by Sufis. You can see Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] being misquoted on these Sufi sites:
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/verdict.htm [Nuh Keller's site]
http://seekingilm.com/archives/203 [Abu layth's site]
http://www.abc.se/~m9783/ibaz_e.html [GF Haddad's site]
They quote Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] as saying:
Originally Posted by Masud.co.uk
Ibn Taymiya, for instance, the medieval scholar of Syria, wrote:
To celebrate and to honour the birth of the Prophet, and to take it as an honoured season, as some of the people are doing, is good, and in it there is a great reward, because of their good intentions in honouring the Prophet
And the Sunni Forum brother quoted Ibn Taymiyyah as such, with a great big ellipses in the middle of the quote (!!!) :
Ibn Taymiyya: "The innovated festivities of time and place" (ma uhditha min al-a´yad al-zamaniyya wa al-makaniyya): And similarly what some people innovate by analogy with the Christians who celebrate the birth of Jesus, or out of love for the Prophet and to exalt him, and Allah may reward them for this love and effort... To celebrate and to honor the birth of the Prophet and to take it as an honored season, as some of the people are doing, is good and in it there is a great reward, because of their good intentions in honoring the Prophet.
Now let us see why this is a deliberate misquote.
In actuality, Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] was OPPOSED to Mawlid, he DETESTED it, thought it was bidah, likened it to what the Christians do, said the evil outweighs the good, and said that a true believer would never celebrate it.
The FULL QUOTE of what Ibn Taymiyyah [ra] said:
"…because the Eeds are legislated laws from amongst the laws, so it is necessary to follow them, and not to innovate them, and the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) had many lectures, treaties, and great events that happened on a number of (documented) days such as the Day of Badr, Hunain, al-Khandaq, the Conquest of Mecca, the occurrence of his hijrah, his entry to Madeenah…and none of this necessitated that these days be taken as days of Eed. Rather this sort of thing was done by the Christians who took the days in which great events happened to Jesus as eeds, or by the Jews. Indeed the Eed is a legislated law, so what Allaah legislates is followed, otherwise do not innovate in this religion that which is not part of it.He says in another place of the same book, "there is no doubt that the one who practices these - i.e. the innovated festive seasons - either the mujtahid or muqallid will have the reward for his good intention and the what the action contains of legislated actions, and will be forgiven for what it contains of innovation if his ijtihaad or taqleed contains one of the excuses (that would lift this sin from him)…."
And like this is what some of the people have innovated, either in opposition to the Christian celebration of the birthday of Jesus, or out of love for the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) and in honour of him. And Allaah will reward them for this love and ijtihaad, but NOT FOR THE BID’AH of taking the day of the birth of the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) as an eed - this along with the difference of the people as to when he was born. For indeed this (celebration) was not done by the salaf, despite the existence of factors that would necessitate it and the lack of any factors that would prevent them from doing so if it were indeed good. And if this was genuinely good or preferable then the salaf, may Allaah be pleased with them, would have more right to doing so then us, for they had more severe love and honour of the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) in following him, obeying him, and following his command, and reviving his sunnah inwardly and outwardly, and spreading that which he was sent with, and performing jihaad for this in the heart, with the hand and upon the tongue. So indeed this was the way of the Saabiqeen al-Awwaleen from the Muhajiroon and the Ansaar, and those that followed them in good.
And you will find the majority of these (who celebrate the birthday) in ardent desire of these sort of innovations - alongwith what they have of good intention and ijtihaad for which reward is hoped for - but you would find them feeble in following the command of the Messenger, that which they have been commanded to be eager and vigorous in, indeed they are of the position of one who adorns the Mushaf but does not read what is in it or reads what is in it but does not follow it. Or the position of one who decorates the mosques but does not pray in them, or prays in them rarely…
And know that from the actions are those that have some good in them, due to their including types of good actions and including evil actions such as innovation etc. So this action would be good with respect to what it includes of good and evil with respect to what it contains of turning away from the religion in it’s totality, as is the state of the hypocrites and faasiqeen. This has what has afflicted the majority of the ummah in the later times. So upon you is two manners (of rectification):
1. that your desire be to follow the sunnah inwardly and outwardly, with respect to yourself specifically and those that follow you, and you enjoin the good and forbid the evil.
2. that you call the people to the sunnah in accordance to ability, so if you were to see someone doing this (celebration) and he were to not leave it except for an evil greater than it, then do not call him to leaving the evil so that he may perform something more evil than this….[a page omitted in which he explains this principle]
So honouring the mawlid, and taking it as a festive season (mawsam) which some of the people have done, there is a great reward in it due to the good intention and the honouring of the Messenger (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) because of what I have previously stated to you - that it is possible that something be good for some of the people and be denounced/considered to be ugly by the strict believer. This is why it was said to Imaam Ahmad about some of the leaders, that he spent 1000 dirhams upon the mushaf or similar to this. So he replied, ‘leave them, for this is better than them spending it on gold (jewellery).’ This despite the fact that the madhhab of Imaam Ahmad was that it is abhorrent to decorate the mushafs, and some of the companions (of Ahmad) interpreted this to mean that the money was spent in renewing the pages and writing. But this is not the intent of Ahmad here, his intention here was that this action had a benefit in it, and it also contained corruption due to which it became abhorrent. But these people, if they did not do this, would have substituted this for a corruption that contained no good whatsoever, for example spending upon one of the books of evil…" [Iqtidaa Siraat al-Mustaqeem 2/618+ my copy has the tahqeeq of Shaykh Naasir al-Aql]
Ibn Taymiyyah continues:
"But this does not prevent one from detesting and prohibiting it and to replace it with a legislated action containing no bid'ah.... Just as the Jews and Christians may find benefit in their worship because it is possible that their worship includes an aspect of what is legislated but this does not necessitate that you perform their actions of worship or you report their words because all of the innovations contain evil that outweighs their good, this due to the fact that if their good outweighed the evil then why would the Sharee'ah have disregarded it? So we depend upon the fact that it's sin is greater than it's benefit and this necessitates forbiddance."
"And I say: it's sin is removed from some of the people due to the reason of ijtihaad or other than it, as the sin of usury and alcohol (from dates) which has been differed about (by the salaf) is removed from the salaf (who allowed it), then despite this it is necessary to explain it's condition and not to follow those that considered it permissible.... So this is sufficient evidence in explaining that these innovations include corruptions of belief or condition contradicting what the Messenger (sallallaahu `alaihi wasallam) came with, and that what benefit they contain is marjooh (not to be relied upon) and it not correct to use for objection"
"As for what they contain - i.e. these innovated festive seasons such as the Mawlid - of benefit then they are opposed by what they contain of the corruption of innovations that outweigh the benefit, alongwith with what has preceded of the corruptions of belief and state - that the hearts become content with it at the expense of a large number of Sunnahs to the extent that you find that the elite and the general masses preserve this in a way that they do not preserve the Taraaweeh's or the five prayers...." mentioning many more cases.[al-Qawl al-Fasl (pg. 102) of Shaykh Ismaa’eel al-Ansaaree]
- 20th April 2008 #6
By the way, that is found in his book "Iqtida as-sirat al Mustaqim".
and he said in the same book in another place:
وكذلك ما يحدثه بعض الناس ، إما مضاهاة للنصارى في ميلاد عيسى عليه السلام ، وإما محبة للنبي صلى الله عليه وسلم ، وتعظيمًا . والله قد يثيبهم (1) على هذه المحبة والاجتهاد ، لا على البدع- من اتخاذ مولد النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم عيدًا . مع اختلاف الناس في مولده . فإن هذا لم يفعله السلف ، مع قيام المقتضي له وعدم المانع منه لو كان خيرًا . ولو كان هذا خيرًا (2) محضا ، أو راجحًا لكان السلف رضي الله عنهم أحق به منا ، فإنهم كانوا أشد محبة لرسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم وتعظيمًا له منا ، وهم على الخير أحرص .
Also what some people innovate, either imitating milad of Isaa alayhi assalam or for the love of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam and his glorification. And Allah MIGHT reward them for this love and ijtihad, NOT for the BIDAH of taking mawlid of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam as an eid. With the disagreement of people regarding his mawlid, the Salaf did not do it, with the need for it being there, and nothing to prevent them from doing it, if it were good. And if this was complete goodness or the most correct, the Salaf radiyallahu anhum would have had more right doing it than us, for they had greater love for the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alayhi wa sallam, and glorified him more than us, and they (Salaf) were more eager to doing good than us.
- 20th April 2008 #7
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
Jazakallah khayr! This is what I always wondered.
- 20th April 2008 #8
- 20th April 2008 #9
Jazaakum Allah Khayr, dear brothers and sisters.
I saw that some Sufis/Ash'aris were making these stupid claims in another forum. I have posted the true position of the Imams. They will probably ban me anyway, for being "too harsh" LOL.
- 21st April 2008 #10
when a ''Fake'''sufi quotes Ibn Taymiyya of other High Qualified scholars you must be aware because they pick and choose in a similar way the madkhalis pick/choose and mistranslate hold out of context of Fatawa ,
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