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Kitaab al-'Uluww of Hafidh adh-Dhahabi(rh)

This is a discussion on Kitaab al-'Uluww of Hafidh adh-Dhahabi(rh) within the Islamic Theology and Ideology forums, part of the Islamic Knowledge category; As-sallamu 'alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Could any of the tulaab here clear up the shubuhat proposed by the neo-ash'ariyyah ...

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    Abu'l 'Eyse's Avatar
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    Default Kitaab al-'Uluww of Hafidh adh-Dhahabi(rh)

    As-sallamu 'alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

    Could any of the tulaab here clear up the shubuhat proposed by the neo-ash'ariyyah who say Imaam adh-Dhahabi(rh) retracted from his book kitaab al-'uluww so we know if it is an accurate source to refer to or not. JazakALLAHU Khairan.
    "Sit with one whose limbs address you, not his mouth." Sahl ibn `Abd Allah ibn Yunus, Abu Muhammad al-Tustari (d. 283), may Allah be well-pleased with him.

    : " " , : :

    Ibn 'Umar said: "And do not let your words be in excess to your actions", Al-Baihaqi: Shu'ab al-Imaan and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani: Al-Isaabah fee Taymeez as-Sahaaba



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    Atharist qadri's Avatar
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    as salaamu 'alaikum.

    This aspersion cast by detractors of Athari creed has been answered by Shaykh Barrak.

    Please see the link:
    http://www.sunnipress.com/arabic/

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    2C oursels as ithers C us Umm Ahmed's Avatar
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    Wa alaykum usalaam.

    Would you recomend printing out the following for someone still learning from the link above ?


    Claim about Imam Dhahabi repudiating from his book Kitaab al-Uluww
    Deeds are your money on the day of judgement , make sure you collect plenty now.


    Say (O Muhammad SAW):"I am not a new thing among the Messengers (of Allh) (i.e. I am not the first Messenger) nor do I know what will be done with me or with you. I only follow that which is revealed to me, and I am but a plain warner." (Al-Ahqaf 46:9)

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    Junior Member Abu Jalfrezi's Avatar
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    33. Al-`Uluw li al-`Ali al-Ghaffar ("The Exaltation of the All-High and Most-Forgiving"), a book written under Ibn Taymiyya's influence - as stated by al-Kawthari in his Maqalat - when al-Dhahabi was twenty-five and which he later disavowed as related by its copyist the hadith master Ibn Nasir al-Din al-Dimashqi (d. 842):

    Its author stated - as Allah is His witness - in his own hand-writing as I read it in the margin of the original manuscript written in the year 698:

    "This book contains narrations against the unreliability of which I am cautioning the reader, and the statements of a number of people who spoke in outlandish terms. Neither do I subscribe to their terms, nor do I imitate them. May Allah forgive them! Nor will I ever consider myself bound by such terms. This is my belief, and I know that Allah "There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him" (42:11)!"41

    Al-Dhahabi nevertheless commits several blunders in al-`Uluw, despite its small size, because of his evident search for evidence that supports the conception of Allah's literal height so dear to his teacher. The most glaring of those mistakes are the inaccurate referencing of several narrations to al-Bukhari or Muslim or both when in fact they are not narrated by them. For example:

    1) He cites the hadith of `Imran ibn Husayn from the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- with the wording: "Allah was on the Throne (kana Allah `ala al-`arsh), and He was before everything, and He wrote on the Tablet everything that shall ever be." Then he says: "This is a sound hadith, al-Bukhari narrates it in several places."42 However, none of the versions al-Bukhari narrates in several places of his Sahih contains the words "Allah was on the Throne," by which al-Dhahabi purports to support the anthropomorphist perspective of his book. Nor is this wording found in any authentic hadith in the first place, nor is it found in any book of hadith, whether authentic or forged.43

    2) He cites a hadith whereby Ibn `Abbas explains the verses "the heaven that He built, He raised the height thereof and ordered it" (79:28) to mean: "He created the earth two days before the heaven, then He turned to the heaven and ordered them in two other days, then He descended to the earth (thumma nazala ila al-ard) and spread it, its spreading meaning that He brought forth from it water and pasture." Then al-Dhahabi said: "al-Bukhari narrated it from Yusuf ibn `Adi [twice], once with part of its chain."44 However, nowhere in his Sahih does al-Bukhari mention the phrase "then He descended to the earth" upon which al-Dhahabi depends so as to include it as evidence for literal height. That phrase is only found in two very weak narrations outside al-Bukhari, one by al-Tabarani, the other by Abu al-Shaykh.45 The sound narration found in al-Bukhari states that Ibn `Abbas said: "He created the earth in two days, then He created the heaven, then He turned to the heaven and ordered them in two other days, then He spread the earth, its spreading meaning that He brought forth from it water and pasture."

    3) He refers a hadith to al-Bukhari and Muslim thus: "It is narrated in the two Sahihs that the Prophet -- Allah bless and greet him -- supplicated Allah on behalf of a group of people saying: `May the pious eat from your food, may those who fast break their fast in your house, may the angels invoke blessings upon you, and may Allah mention you among those who are with Him.'"46 However, nowhere in the two Sahihs is the phrase "may Allah mention you among those who are with Him" found. It is a measure of al-Albani's overall unreliability that he caught only one out of these three mistakes, confirming al-Dhahabi on (1) and (2) but correcting him on (3).47


    41. Cited and photo-reproduced at the beginning of Shaykh Hasan `Ali al-Saqqaf's edition of al-Dhahabi's `Uluw (p. 3-4).
    42. Al-Dhahabi, al-`Uluw (239-240 #112) and Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (p. 98 #40).
    43. On the hadith of `Imran ibn Husayn see our post "Allah Is Now As He Ever Was."
    44. Al-Dhahabi, al-`Uluw (p. 216 #77) and Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (p. 94 #26).
    45. Al-Tabarani in al-Kabir (10:245-246) with a chain containing Ahmad ibn Muhammad ibn Hajjaj al-Misri, who Ibn `Adi said was accused of lying, as stated by al-Dhahabi himself in Mizan al-I`tidal (1:133 #538); Abu al-Shaykh, al-`Azama (3:1039) with a chain containing al-`Ala' ibn Hilal ibn `Umar al-Bahili who is very weak as stated in Arna'ut and Ma`ruf's al-Tahrir (3:132 #5259) and accused by some of forgery as stated by al-Dhahabi himself in al-Mizan (3:106 #5748) and in al-Tahrir.
    46. Al-Dhahabi, al-`Uluw (p. 335 #225) and Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (p. 123 #84).
    47. See Mukhtasar al-`Uluw (p. 98 #40, p. 94 #26, and p. 123 #84).


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    Junior Member moubeen's Avatar
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    This topic has been discussed several times on these boards...anyway even what the Imaam was supposed to have written on the actual copies in his handwriting.... does not deny the fact he still beleived Allah to be above the creation. All he negates (if we take what was written to be true) is some "outlandish terms" and a weak narrations....it does not negate what the 'asharees wished adh-dhahabi would negate....for if he did that - as others have mentioned - you would've found as-subki writing about it in every book.

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    Junior Member Abu Jalfrezi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moubeen View Post
    This topic has been discussed several times on these boards...anyway even what the Imaam was supposed to have written on the actual copies in his handwriting.... does not deny the fact he still beleived Allah to be above the creation. All he negates (if we take what was written to be true) is some "outlandish terms" and a weak narrations....it does not negate what the 'asharees wished adh-dhahabi would negate....for if he did that - as others have mentioned - you would've found as-subki writing about it in every book.
    Jazakallah Khayr for the reply, its a fair point.

    If the issue regarding Uluw has been discussed elsewhere it would be appropriate to link it here if its not too much trouble brother, as I did try searching for it, and this thread is specifically named regarding this topic, hence i posted the claims of Haddad & Co here, so they can be adequetly addressed. Barakallah Feek.

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