Question

**Madarijas-Salikeen** · 30th April 2007

as-salaamu alaykum

was imam suyuti a deviant mubtadi? He was very open about his mystic ways and of the visions etc.. and defended hadra.. what is the ulama view on him?

jazakallaah khayr

wasalaam

**Expergefactionist** · 30th April 2007

Like everyone else, he was a sunni in what he agreed with the sunna. He was anti-Kalam, but pro-Sufi, and also pro-ijtihad... and this the reality with everyone... you would hardly find a scholar without errors and slips.

**joefso** · 30th April 2007

Assalaamu alaykoem,

What's the orgin of hadrah? Is it something that Awliya did, in likes such Shaykh Abdul Qadir Jilani?

**1mran** · 30th April 2007

Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair

Like everyone else, he was a sunni in what he agreed with the sunna. He was anti-Kalam, but pro-Sufi, and also pro-ijtihad... and this the reality with everyone... you would hardly find a scholar without errors and slips.

true.

but there is a difference between a scholar making an error in lets say ijtihaad and a scholar having deviant beliefs..

we are all human. we all make mistakes. the key is to strive to be on the straight path and follow the Quran and Sunnah as understood by the Salaf.

and Allah knows best

**joefso** · 30th April 2007

Define deviant beliefs? Deviant beliefs according to whom? According to Islam, or according to your interpretation or interpretation by scholars whom you like? Who can say someone is deviant in Islam, what gives him or her the authority to speak out on behalf of Islam?

Yesterday I was reading a article, and I found this interesting:

For example, a young man, after leading us at salat al-fajr prayer in Chicago a few months ago, told a latecomer to the first rak‘a (who had been finishing his sunna prayer when the iqama (call to commence) was made): "If the prescribed prayer begins, you don’t finish the sunna, but quit and join the group. Don’t listen to Abu Hanifa, or Malik, or Shafi‘i; the hadith is clear: La salata ba‘da al-iqama illa al-maktuba ‘There is no prayer after the iqama except the prescribed one.’"

Now, the dhahir or ‘literal meaning’ of the hadith was as he said, but the Imams of Shari‘a have not understood it this way for the very good reason that Allah says in Surat Muhammad of the Qur'an, "And do not nullify your works" (Qur'an 47:33), and to simply quit an act of worship—namely, the sunna rak‘as before fajr—is precisely to nullify one of one’s works.

Scholars rather understand the hadith to mean that one may not begin a sunna (or other nafila) prayer after the call to commence (iqama) is given. And this is very usual in human language: to use a general expression, in this case, "There is no prayer" to mean a specific part or aspect of it; namely, "There is no initiating a prayer." Consider how the Qur'an says, "Ask the village we were in, and the caravan that we came with" (Qur'an 12:82), where the dhahir or literal meaning of village and caravan; namely, the assemblage of stone huts and the string of pack animals, are not things that can be asked—but rather a specific aspect or part of them is intended; that is, the people of the village and the people of the caravan, or rather, just some of them. There are many similar expressions in every language, "Put the tea on the stove," for example, not meaning to heap the dried leaves on the stove, but rather to put them in a pot, add water, and light the stove, and so on. It is all the more surprising that anyone, Dhahiri or otherwise, could have ever imagined that Arabic, with its incomparable richness in figures of speech, could be so impoverished as to lack this basic expressive faculty.

**abu hafs** · 30th April 2007

See for info on Hadra and related issues of sufis like clapping, dancing.
http://forums.islamicawakening.com/s...5474#post25474

**Madarijas-Salikeen** · 30th April 2007

joefso i see you qoute from the deviant nuh ha mim keller ash shadhili may Allaah guide him and his followers to the haq ameen. Dr. salih as salih ripped him open on mysticism and on ashari aqidah.