Reporting Extremist Activities to a Non-Muslim Government
This is a discussion on Reporting Extremist Activities to a Non-Muslim Government within the Beliefs and Fundamentals forums, part of the Main Topics category; Reporting Extremist Activities to a Non-Muslim Government | Sheikh Sāmī al-Mājid, professor at al-Imām Islamic University, Riyadh| When a terrorist ...
- 1st January 2008 #1Mustafa al-MuhaajirGuest
Reporting Extremist Activities to a Non-Muslim Government
Reporting Extremist Activities to a Non-Muslim Government|
Sheikh Sāmī al-Mājid, professor at al-Imām Islamic University, Riyadh|
When a terrorist attack takes place, it is a tragedy which affects everyone in the worst possible way. It is a disaster for the people who die or are injured in the attacks as well as for their loved ones. It creates a general atmosphere of fear and insecurity for all members of society and leads to preventative measures being enacted that erode people's civil liberties more and more. When the attackers attribute themselves to a certain religious or ethnic minority in that society, it leads to a societal backlash against the innocent members of that minority group, as we have seen with Muslim communities in the West when terrorist attacks take are carried out by criminals abusing Islam's good name.
Muslims, just like everyone else living in society, must do what they can to prevent terrorist attacks from taking place. In many countries, Muslims are being called on by their governments to report Muslim "extremists" in their midst who are likely to engage in terrorism. This puts Muslims in a difficult situation. Who are the extremists? When does an extremist become a terrorist? Should Muslims report their co-religionists to the authorities? If yes, when should they do so?
The first question that must be dealt with is the ambiguous concept of "extremism" and when it becomes a problem. This is a difficult question, since people have widely varying definitions of what constitutes "extremism" and "terrorism". We will need a have a practical understanding of this concept without trying to form a definitive definition of terrorism before addressing the question of reporting people to the authorities.
There are Muslims in the East and the West who choose to follow an austere and harsh some might say "extreme" approach to religious matters, both in their worship and in their interactions with others in society. Some of these people go further and try to insist that other Muslims conform to their ideas about religion, especially in matters of worship. In spite of all that, they do not subscribe to the "jihādī" ideas of resorting to violence against their non-Muslim neighbors. They do not wish for any violence to take place at present nor do they do not plan to perpetrate acts of violence against anyone at any time in the future. If they were to hear someone suggest to them perpetrating acts of violence against others, they would be deeply offended and disgusted by the idea.
Such people should certainly not be reported to the authorities since they do not pose a threat to anyone in society, nor do they present a threat to the government or to national security.
Then there are others who follow an approach of excommunicating from the faith people who disagree with them often referred to as a "takfīrī" ideology and who adopt a "jihādī" approach to non-Muslims and to anyone else they define as being outside of the faith. These people legitimate violence against non-Muslims and make plans to carry out various violent acts in society. They often actively encourage other Muslims to subscribe to their deviant views and to participate in carrying out acts of destruction and violence. They establish secret organizations and associations to further their criminal objectives. Their plots only surface once they carry out their crimes in civil society.
It is permissible to report such people to the authorities in a non-Muslim country. This is necessary to prevent their ignoble activities form causing genuine harm to innocent people in society; people whether Muslim or non-Muslim whose lives are sacrosanct in Islam. The fact that the criminals in question are Muslims does not prevent us from reporting them to the non-Muslim authorities, especially when there is no other effective and practical way to advise those Muslims and to prevent them from perpetrating serious violent and destructive criminal acts like the detonation of bombs in public areas.
There can be no doubt that turning such people in to the authorities causes those people harm. However, this is to prevent a far greater harm. It is a general axiom of Islamic Law that a lesser harm is to be borne if it is necessary for the prevention of a greater harm. We may not like the idea that the non-Muslim authorities will be dealing with these Muslims, and that those Muslims could face criminal proceedings and even punishment. However, this is something unavoidable in order to prevent tragedies of a much greater scale and magnitude. If we fail to report those who are planning to perpetrate acts of violence in our societies, then many innocent people Muslims and non-Muslims alike will pay the price.
At the same time, it must be emphasized that no one should report anyone else to the authorities without first ascertaining that the person truly poses a threat to society. People should not go around reporting others on the basis of mere suspicions that are as likely to be as false as they are to be true. Only those who are confirmed to be harboring a violent intent should be reported to the authorities. Also, if there is a chance of convincing people who harbor such tendencies to mend their ways, this is always the better approach. However, if there is no other way to protect society from a real threat that a person's activities presents, then it is clear that the person must be reported to the authorities.
And Allah knows best.
- 1st January 2008 #2
- 1st January 2008 #3
That is why it is better not to take everything from them on matters that effect us here in the west from someone who has a cursory clue of the reality
- 2nd January 2008 #4
It should be: We need to have an understanding based only on Quran and Sunnah.
Then, there should be adillah.
But what do we have? Generalizations and conclusions based upon kaaffir-speak and kaaffir concepts.
Enough said, I think.
- 2nd January 2008 #5
I am absolutely disgusted by reading this fatwa. Previously Sami al-Majid told the sisters to take off their niqabs, but now he has taken it to a different level: spare the Sururi Salafis and dob the Jihadi Salafi in!
He should learn some lessons from Sgt. Baker and Lonely Informers Band (of Brixton Mosque) how he was ostracized after he publicly admitted that he had been dobbing in those whom he considered to be extremists for absolutely NO crime of theirs at all! Now he is going around meeting brothers like Shakeel and Moazzam Begg to clear up his name! The Lefties and civil libertarians would spit on his face if Sami ever said this in England. Moreover, this Bedouin apparently doesnt even live in the West. He is a donkey carrying books in Riyadh! And it is because of his tyrannical fatwas, do we get the lives of Muslim families ruined. Yes, one police raid is what it takes to ruin an entire family, doesnt matter if the person is released after a week or two without charge or not. And of course, this only applies to British citizens. The foreigners are detained indefinitely.
In the beginning, when I was attending Brixton mosque, I was a very active member of the mosque. I volunteered, I laid the carpet down, I did a lot of good. I intended good for the community. But some politics happened. The leader was there - the original one - and the community rejected him and Abdul Haq became a transitional leader. He had lasted there for some time, and he was due to have some elections in Brixton Mosque. Once Abdul Haq ascended to power, he became a tyrant; he put his friends around him, and he wouldnt listen to anyone. He had this thing that they were the saved group and everyone else was different. So I didnt like this approach, so I tried to advise them many times, but things didnt go quietly. So we decided to move from Brixton Mosque, and so we set up in the Town Hall. We used to do Jumuah (Friday congregational prayers) there, and alhamdulillah, the numbers started increasing. But they didnt like that. So initially they banned me from the mosque; they said I was a deviant, because few numbers they had. Eventually, an incident happened; one of their members followed me one time - that was in 95 - outside the mosque after evening prayers and assaulted me, beat me up. I made a report to the police and they went to look for him. So as a result they came to me and asked me to drop the charges because he was a Muslim brother etc. So I told them, Ok, we do everything according to Islam. I dropped the charges and we made arbitration. They had agreed that they were at fault, and they were supposed to pay me compensation according to Shariah. They never paid. Alhamdulillah that was the last time I left Brixton Mosque. So I went, I was doing my own activities, doing my work, minding my own business, since 95. So I was very surprised to hear in the year 2002 that Abdul Haq had written a letter to the Home Office stating that I had close links to individuals and organisations involved in terrorism. He mentioned some individuals who prayed at Brixton Mosque, but I had never met these people at Brixton Mosque. So I dont know how he put me together and how he was trying to link me with the activities of those individuals. It seems it was from maliciousness, trying to make me a scapegoat. Alhamdulillah, during the process of the hearing, it was established that the Home Secretary had received the letter on the 22nd June 2002 from officials of Brixton Mosque, stating that I was a supposed threat to national security, and he was acting on that information, and thats why I was arrested in Belmarsh. So alhamdulillah, it was understood that if there was to be a proper hearing, they would have to appear in court, and of course, they would have to be cross-examined. But somehow it feels that none of them had the guts to come in front of the court, and to substantiate whatever allegations that they made, and that is how the case was dropped. Allah knows best. So this is basically what happened to me.
This is NOT KSA, Mr al-Majid! This is Britain!
Last edited by Expergefactionist; 2nd January 2008 at 10:09 AM.A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
- 2nd January 2008 #6
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Daar al-Ecstacy.
This Is Sparta!!
- 2nd January 2008 #7
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
Not to mention this particular brother who was locked up for 14 months was also assaulted by one of the Brixton guys who broke this brothers nose and the Madkhali guy came back boasting how he beat up a deviant. He was going to report him to the Police for assault, but Agent Baker and his cronies persuaded this brother not to press charges, so the brother dropped the matter. To show their appreciation later on, they end up reporting him to be a terror suspect.
- 2nd January 2008 #8
I think Islamtoday should generally be avoided. It is as if they are on a mission to water down Islam in the West. None of these guys either live in the West or understand our lives and the challenges we are facing. They should shut down their English section and concentrate on reforming their heads before reforming Saudi.A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.
- 2nd January 2008 #9
- Join Date
- Jul 2004
- 2nd January 2008 #10
bedhouins telling eskimos how to build igloos....Wakee' ibn Jarrah once said, 'The intelligent one is he who understands the ways of Allah, not him who has understood the ways of this world.'
MM: Your Deeds Would Shame all the Devils in Hell
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