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Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

This is a discussion on Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ? within the Islamic Theology and Ideology forums, part of the Islamic Knowledge category; Misyar Misyaf Mityar Saudi Bida ? --vs-- Shia Muta ? (please note the question mark after Saudi Bida?) I am ...

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    Default Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    Misyar Misyaf Mityar Saudi Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    (please note the question mark after Saudi Bida?)

    I am sure everyone here knows what is Shia Mutah ? Mut'ah means temporary marriage.

    In Islam ( the real Islam Ahl sunnah wal Jamaah aka Ahl al hadith or Ahl al Athar ) it is haraam.

    Many Arabic articles on the internet are available
    SEE HERE -- 1

    SEE HERE -- 2


    our scholars (Hai'ah kibaar Ualama commission of senior scholars) in Saudi Arabia paid by aal Saud government have declared Misyar / misyaf / mityar type of Mutah marriages. So, on what basis Ubaykan and others have made this mutah marriage halal ?

    see here
    فتوى المجمع الفقهي تنعش سوق المسيار ومكتب سعودي يتلقى 250 طلبا أسبوعيا - دنيا الوطن


    Before anyone insults me or anything like that, answer the questions:

    1) Did Salaf us Salih approve of such Mutah marriages (another name for it Misyar Misyaf Mityar ?)

    2) Did anyone from the Khalaf like Ibn Taymiyyah, Ibn Hajar, Ibn Rajab, Abul Qasim Taymi, Harawi Ansari etc. etc. approve of it.

    3) Does Misyar / Misyaf / Mityar have any shariah basis ?


    let me explain to you - o reader - very fastly what is misyar / misyaf / mityar

    basically, a person secretly marries and the obligations which are given by Allah (like the duties of Husband or Wife) are waived.

    A guy marries mutah type marriage called misyar with a woman but with the condition:
    1) they will not bring any kids
    2) he will not provide any financial support
    3) the marriage will be a secret
    4) he will come whenever he pleases and leave whenever he likes


    so let us hear from Mody Khalaf a writer in arab news.

    Marriages Unlimited
    Marriages Unlimited
    Mody Al-Khalaf, mody.alkhalaf@gmail.com

    Dear Customer,
    Please fill out the following form so that we can best serve you. Remember, we are here to meet all your needs. Our motto is: All fun, no responsibility.
    I am seeking a wife between the ages of:
    (15-20) (21-25) (26-30) (30-35) (36+)
    Height _______________ Weight ___________
    Complexion ______________________________
    Tribal affiliation (in order of preference)
    ________________________________________
    Status: Virgin, Divorced (w or w/o children?) ________________
    Widowed (w or w/o children?) ________________
    Next, please mark the following choices so that we may decide which
    marriage best suits your personal needs.
    I would like a wife who agrees to relinquish the following rights:
    ___Right to housing
    ___Right to financial support
    ___Right to time (spending the night especially)
    ___Right to children
    ___Right to public announcement of the marriage
    ___All of the above
    I would like a wife to meet the following needs:
    ___Owns a home or lives with her family
    ___Has her own job
    ___Enjoys traveling
    ___Speaks English
    ___Attractive
    ___Open minded (to do the things my current wife will not do)
    ___All of the above
    Thank you for your time. The total service fee will be determined by your above choices (SR5,000-15,000). You are required to pay SR500 to initiate search.
    Sound too absurd to be real? Its not. Matchmaking is a booming business here these days. In addition, marriage in many Arab countries has taken on some new forms and shapes. Among the different types especially popular in Saudi Arabia is the misyar (i.e. visiting marriage). This means the man is not required to provide a home, financial support or to spend the night. He can just visit whenever he pleases. Another form of marriage is the misyaf (i.e. summer marriage). This means the couple is together only in the summer, usually when traveling and is meant to avoid the temptations of forbidden sex or in the case of the woman, have a mahram around for social purposes. A third, even more outrageous marriage is the mityar (i.e. flying marriage). In this one, a man marries a second wife solely to accompany him on his frequent business trips. In this case, the man usually wants a very attractive, open-minded woman who speaks good English.
    If none of these three types of marriage meets your needs, then feel free to come up with your own. There is no limit to imagination and our scholars are only too eager to satisfy you by issuing fatwas legalizing all types of marriage. Recently, only misyar has been given the stamp of approval but if there is any consistency in their decision, the others will soon be approved as well. The only obstacle they say that makes the marriage illegal or invalid is intent to divorce as if all those different boxes to check are not enough to show just how temporary they believe the marriage is going to be. The strange thing is that many of those same scholars have criticized the Shiite practice known as mutaa (i.e. pleasure marriage) which is a temporary union simply for sexual purposes. While I reject such a marriage as well, I must say I respect them for at least calling a spade a spade.
    The reason some people defend the legalization of these travesties of marriage is large number of unmarried women in the country. I wonder how legalizing marriages that deprive women of all their basic marital rights will solve that problem that is without creating even worse problems.
    First, we will inevitably have an even higher rate of divorce (currently we have a divorce every 44 minutes or 33 per day). And studies by the Ministry of Planning have shown that 65 percent of marriages through mediators and matchmakers end in divorce.
    Second, we are creating a generation of fatherless children. Even if it is a womans choice to relinquish her rights to a full marriage, she does not have the right to relinquish her childrens rights to a father.
    Third, we are making polygamy that much easier for men and, by doing so, are ruining existing marriages.
    Many people defend these marriages by saying that they are a consensual agreement between two adults. My reply to that is: Why do you think any person would give up all his or her rights? Is it a case of the lesser of two evils? Cowardly men seeking a misyar or mityar marriage are merely doing so to satisfy their selfish needs while having to give nothing in return. They are playing with the emotional, physical, financial and social needs of women who have no other choice.
    Statistics show there are over 1.5 million unmarried women in Saudi Arabia and even more divorcees and widows. Many of these women are under social pressure to get married to anyone, even the shadow of a man. Other women who agree to such marriages want financial support (a bare minimum) or children to fill up their lives. They have no choice but to relinquish their rights in order to get married.
    In conclusion, I would like to ask just one question of these scholars and other men of religion: How many of you have daughters who are living with you while married to a man in a misyar marriage? I would say none. I challenge any of you to tell me that you have done that to your own daughters. As usual, fatwas are made without regard to the victims of such decisions. Correct me if I am wrong. I am waiting for your e-mails.

    * * *
    (Mody Al-Khalaf is a Saudi writer. She is based in Riyadh.)





    Misyar marriage women arrested for bogus deals By Ibrahim Alawi

    Jeddah - Jeddah Police have arrested two women for allegedly cheating men seeking misyar marriage by receiving part of the dowry money upfront and then disappearing in thin air before signing the marriage contract.
    Stung by the malicious intent of the two women, victims have filed reports with the Jeddah Police Department saying that they have been tricked into believing that the two women were sincere about the misyar marriage proposals.
    A misyar contract is known to be a marriage contract where couples can live separately but get together regularly, often for sexual relations.
    Whenever the two women were approached for misyar marriage, they would immediately agree with pushing their urgent needs for a down-payment of the dowry and furniture money that the husbands-to-be would willingly pay for the desire for misyar promiscuity.
    Once paid upfront, the two women would take off looking for another victim. But they would not forget about their first victims. They would squeeze every last penny from their victims by blackmailing them and threatening to inform their wives of their intentions of having second wives, leaving no choice for some victims but to submit to the womens requests to save their marriages.
    Acting on tip-offs provided in the victims reports, the police assigned an investigative team to trace the two women who were arrested in less than 36 hours trying to trap new victims with the approach of Eid. The women targeted misyar marriage seekers with fat wallets.
    Col. Misfer Al-Juaid said the two women have been tricking their victims for a long time, pointing out that the silence of their victims encouraged them to continue with their malpractices. Okaz/SG

    Jail and 300 lashes for Misyar woman By Saud Al-Barakati

    JEDDAH A District Court judge here Sunday sentenced a married woman to two years behind bars and 300 lashes for cheating several men separately. The woman, posing as unmarried, agreed with the men to have Misyar marriage and would escape after receiving dowry.
    A Misyar contract is a marriage contract where couples can live separately but get together regularly. It allows a man to avoid the cost of an expensive wedding, a large dowry, and providing a home.
    A source in the court said the woman, married to an aged Saudi, looked for Misyar husbands with the help of a female matchmaker and a 30-year-old man.
    The female matchmaker and the man, the source said, would negotiate the Misyar marriage on behalf of the sentenced woman.
    The young man involved in the case was also sentenced to one year in jail and 150 lashes for his part in the cheating.
    After concluding the dowry procedures and officiating the marriage, the supposed wife would disappear with the money.
    The woman pleaded guilty to the charges against her. The woman was arrested after her aged husband filed a complaint with the police that his wife had relationships with unrelated men and intended to tie the nuptial knot through Misyar marriage.
    The District Court has referred the verdict to the Court of Cassation for attestation.
    Meanwhile, victims of the womans deception are preparing to file a lawsuit demanding refund of their money paid to the woman in dowry. Okaz/SG








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    'Mr Gangster Man' IbnShaykh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    Third, we are making polygamy that much easier for men and, by doing so, are ruining existing marriages

    And you quote her?
    'Sorry, but I am not a lowly gangster like you guys. *I'm a professional* !!!!!!!!111111111.

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    There is a clear difference between mut'ah and misyar.

    In a mut'ah contract there is a time frame for the marriage specified. Such that you'd say for example "I marry you for 1 month."

    Whereas there is no explicit mentioning of a time for the marriage in misyar. And if there is, then it's no longer misyar it's actually a mut'ah contract. True, there are things like the forgoing of marital rights, such as maintenance and support. But that's really up to the individuals if they want to leave off such rights in order to get married.

    It's true that in the cultural application of this then many misyar marriages don't last long. However provided they don't come to an agreement of a length of time in the contract it still differs from mut'ah.

    If you want to suggest that the contract is haram then from a fiqhi perspective you have to bring a specific proof that the contract contains something that nullifies it and makes it prohibited.

    Provided the basic tenets of a contract are met (the wali, the two witnesses, the offer & acceptance, the mahr) then however much someone may dislike the practice they can't use weighty words like it's haram.

    Fiqh needs to be separated from emotion, it's often something black and white, like mathematics. Something is or it isn't. Issues such as how people are abusing a fiqh position are separate from the ruling itself and sure, comment needs to be made on abuse and misapplication.

    There certainly is a lot of media coverage on misyar and the negative results of misyar as a form of contract and I've no objection to such reflections being made. Like for instance how some are using it as means of business to accrue frequent and substantial amounts of mahr and gifts.

    But in terms of the contract itself then to prohibit the contract then there needs to be a specific proof to show it. As we know the basic ruling in fiqh is that something is halal until proof is brought to the contrary.

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    Senior Member Ibn malik's Avatar
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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    What part of the misyar contract is haram akh? It seems similar to what Umm al-Mu'mineen Sawda did when she relinquished her right of the Prophet (s) spending nights with her.

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    brother ibn adam, where does it say in the Mutah contract of Shia duration of marriage ?

    secondly "But that's really up to the individuals if they want to leave off such rights in order to get married."

    really, can anyone make any type of marriage contract like say: I will marry you with the condition that
    1) You will never visit your family + parents + relatives + brothers
    2) You will never leave the house?

    please enlighten us for the above condition of getting married.

    I thought there is something in Sunni fiqh (shariah) something called Valid contract and Baatil Contract (invalid contract) I don't know about Aal Saaud fiqh. do they have also have soemthing like that ?

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by muslim_analyst View Post
    brother ibn adam, where does it say in the Mutah contract of Shia duration of marriage ?
    I'm sorry but I wasn't referring to the shi'a. I have little interest in the workings, tenets, beliefs or otherwise of their religion.

    Mut'ah as a term used to refer to marrital contract is something known. It was actually something permitted in the early days of Islam during the early battles and later on it became prohibited.

    It's even translated into English as temporary marriage, because the contract includes a specified beginning (i.e. the making of the contract) and an end of the marriage. It's "marriage" for a fixed and specified amount of time and this is how it differs from misyar.

    Again, can I please repeat that from a fiqh perspective we don't bring emotion, disdain or dislike for something into the discussion?

    If you want to say that the misyar marriage is haram then you, not I, have to bring a proof that shows that contract is invalid. As it is you that is making the claim of prohibition.

    The basic ruling is that something is halal unless an evidence is brought to the contrary. You stated that misyar is something haram so would kindly point out the clause in the contract that makes it prohibited in this religion of ours?

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    Muslim analyst thanks for the neg rep.

    It would mean more, if I actually thought you were a practising Muslim, but I very much doubt you are and probably are well on their way to modernism.
    'Sorry, but I am not a lowly gangster like you guys. *I'm a professional* !!!!!!!!111111111.

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by IbnShaykh View Post
    Muslim analyst thanks for the neg rep.

    It would mean more, if I actually thought you were a practising Muslim, but I very much doubt you are and probably are well on their way to modernism.
    This guy is a joke Ackh so let's stop giving him a reason to come here and debate with us.

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Aboo Muhammad at-thahabee View Post
    This guy is a joke Ackh so let's stop giving him a reason to come here and debate with us.
    Shukhran ya akhi al-kareem, abo Muhammad at-thahabee, but are you indicating when you say This guy is a joke ... joke like this one

    Captain Wagdi Ghneim says << If anybody calls me a terrorist, I stick a finger in his eye, and say: "You are the enemy of Allah." >>

    al-Bukhari reports in his book a narration from Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam : A person who calls a man an unbeliever or says, 'Enemy of Allah,' when that is not the case will have that come back on him."

    The punishment for calling him terrorist ( someone who puts fear in others heart or scares them or terrorizes them) is TakfeeeeR !

    which one is joke? you decide !

    Quote Originally Posted by IbnShaykh
    Muslim analyst thanks for the neg rep.

    It would mean more, if I actually thought you were a practising Muslim, but I very much doubt you are and probably are well on their way to modernism.
    I clicked on that icon for the first time and got a message approve/disapprove.. it didn't know that will make you loose some valuable expensive points. is there any trophy or prize at the end of the month for anyone who collects max points ?

    now, regarding practicing muslim or not. come to Ajyad al-Masafi, next to the tunnel (above) in Makkah and you can see me.

    now regarding modernism.

    if calling for Imamah (1400 year old pratice) is modernism or calling for the modern Shimagh/Ghutrah (some say British gift to aaal saauud) moderism ?

    if calling for sunnah type marriage (1400 year old practice) is modernism or calling to offshoot shia style mutah type marriages called misyar misyaf mityar ?

    if calling for siwak miswak (1400 year old pratice) is modernism or calling for calling for using oral-b toothbrush with signal 2 paste before salah?

    think again and you decide !

    @ibnadam,
    shukhran for your reply. This is one of the good and reasonable replies. Alhamdulilaah. The forum has nice good brothers.
    however you didn't reply to my questions. True the burden of proof lies upon the claimant. Indeed it does.
    You said something over the lines that everything is halal unless stated haram... "something is halal until proof is brought to the contrary."
    you know this line is used alot by sufis and asharis to justify strange things. Please remember marriage is Ibadah and Sunnah (an nikah min sunnati) so sufis do dancing dhikr and what not and we have some green turban sufis who also have strange pratices. What about becoming Mureed of a sufi shaykh ? something is halal until proof is brought to the contrary.

    what about Mawlid ( celebrating birthdays like hindu pagans do? which Salman Awdah approved of )
    "something is halal until proof is brought to the contrary."

    i can give you 100s of examples on the same reasoning.

    but again, i am follower of Ahl al-Hadeeth wal Athar. My role model is Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam and sahaba and their followers and followers.

    So i look back in history. did they have misyar / misyaf / mityar type of marriages then ? yes or no.

    remember, Salafi means to follow salaf and not to innovate new new things. The Prophet sallallahu alaihi wa sallam gave us everything. Nothing is short. there is no need to come up with new ways of sunnah.

    Golden principle:
    On the authority of Abu 'Abdullah al-Nu'man bin Bashir, radiyallahu 'anhu, who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam, say:
    "Truly, what is lawful is evident, and what is unlawful is evident, and in between the two are matters which are doubtful which many people do not know. He who guards against doubtful things keeps his religion and honour blameless, and he who indulges in doubtful things indulges in fact in unlawful things, just as a shepherd who pastures his flock round a preserve will soon pasture them in it. Beware, every king has a preserve, and the things Allah has declared unlawful are His preserves. Beware, in the body there is a flesh; if it is sound, the whole body is sound, and if it is corrupt, the whole body is corrupt, and behold, it is the heart."
    http://fortyhadith.iiu.edu.my/hadith06.htm
    [Al-Bukhari & Muslim]



    also, if misyar misyaf mityar were no different than sunnah marriages why the need to come up with new names for it ? also, why the need to hide these marriages ? also, what purpose does it serve? also how does it help the society ?
    Last edited by muslim_analyst; 14th September 2009 at 09:25 AM.

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    Default Re: Saudi Muta'ah Bida? --vs-- Shia Muta ?

    assalaamu alaikum

    Muslim analyst, you also say that misyar marriages are by nature kept secret (you mention it in point 3). Are you sure that is the case? It seems to me that you may be confusing yourself with the urfi marriages which have some popularity in places like Egypt.

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