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Sharh 'aqeedah tahawiyyah

This is a discussion on Sharh 'aqeedah tahawiyyah within the Beliefs and Fundamentals forums, part of the Main Topics category; As-sallamu 'alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu Originally Posted by Imaam at-Tahawi(rh) #51- He -(Subhanahu)- encompasses everything and is above it, ...

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    Default Sharh 'aqeedah tahawiyyah

    As-sallamu 'alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu

    Quote Originally Posted by Imaam at-Tahawi(rh)

    #51- He -(Subhanahu)- encompasses everything and is above it, (wa bima fawqahu)......
    At-Tahawi, Abu Jafer,(239-321 A.H.) ISLAMIC BELIEF (Al-'Aqidah at-Tahawiah), Page.11, UK Islamic Academy, (2002)

    Would the 'ashariyyah and maturidiyyah claim Imaam at-Tahawi(rh) has ascribed a "location" to ALLAH Ta'ala?

    innsha'ALLAH Ta'ala next posts I will show what some scholars have mentioned about this sentence bi'idnillah ta'ala
    "Sit with one whose limbs address you, not his mouth." Sahl ibn `Abd Allah ibn Yunus, Abu Muhammad al-Tustari (d. 283), may Allah be well-pleased with him.

    قال إبن عمر: "ولا يكن في قولك فضل على فعلك" ,أخرج البيهقي: شعب الإيمان وابن حجر العسقلاني: الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة

    Ibn 'Umar said: "And do not let your words be in excess to your actions", Al-Baihaqi: Shu'ab al-Imaan and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani: Al-Isaabah fee Taymeez as-Sahaaba




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    where did you get the quote from?
    A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.

    Albert Einstein

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    http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tahawi.html

    I dont know what abu imaan is on about because its clearly stated in line 30 He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.

    Also we see tafwid in line 35

    The Seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden' (Al-Jannah) is true, without their vision being all-encompassing and without the manner of their vision being known. As the Book of our Lord has expressed it: `Faces on that Day radiant, looking at their Lord'. [al-Qiyamah 75:22-3] The explanation of this is as Allah knows and wills. Everything that has come down to us about this from the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, in authentic traditions, is as he said and means what he intended.

    We do not delve into that, trying to interpret it according to our own opinions or letting our imaginations have free rein. No one is safe in his religion unless he surrendershimself completely to Allah, the Exalted and Glorified and to His Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and leaves the knowledge of things that are ambiguous to the one who knows them.

    End of qoute

    Pure tafwid there and no one can play with the words to change it saying he meant this or meant that . He clearly makes tafwid

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    Br. Ahlus SUnnah, point to us the an article or definition of tafwid that you follow inshaAllah, or explain it yourself. JazakAllahu khayran

    also some other translation says this - 51. He encompasses all things and that which is above it, and what He has created is incapable of encompassing Him.

    a little different from the one you provided br. Abu eeman, i dont have the arabic, does anyone have the arabic of this statement.

    Also br. Ahlus Sunnah, if the salaf did engage in tafwid how could they say that the Quran is kalam of Allah and on top of that say that it is uncreated, if they were to take the way of tafwid then they would just leave it as it that the Qurna is kalaam of Allah, nothin else.

    On top of this bro.....if the salaf did indeed believe in tafweed as is being propogated today - that there a multitude of meanings for a certain Attribute and we dotn know them but we reject the dhaahir and any "anthropomorphic" meanign from it then why do you think the Mu'tazila or Jahmiyya woudl have a problem with this, their main issue was that the salaf affirmed these texts and they affirmed them as they were and as they are read, and everythign is read in the dhaahir and understood in the dhaahir unless otherwise stated by Allah or the Prophet (SAW), thus the reason why the jahmiyya and mutazila opposed the salaf int hsi regard and the salafi creed is still being opposed by their offspring today, and you knwo what I am referring to.

    Allah Knows Best

    Jaza
    Last edited by danish al hyderabadee; 22nd October 2006 at 06:56 AM.

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    salamu alaykum

    well akhi, hearing, seeing, speaking is abstract affirming these literally does not mean Allah has limits, but if we literally says he has HAND ie a limb appendeg etc.. then this is limiting him. or saying that he sees by EYES ie organs is limiting him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair
    where did you get the quote from?
    this is the ref bro, (it was in the post )


    At-Tahawi, Abu Jafer,(239-321 A.H.) ISLAMIC BELIEF (Al-'Aqidah at-Tahawiah), Page.11, UK Islamic Academy, (2002)
    "Sit with one whose limbs address you, not his mouth." Sahl ibn `Abd Allah ibn Yunus, Abu Muhammad al-Tustari (d. 283), may Allah be well-pleased with him.

    قال إبن عمر: "ولا يكن في قولك فضل على فعلك" ,أخرج البيهقي: شعب الإيمان وابن حجر العسقلاني: الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة

    Ibn 'Umar said: "And do not let your words be in excess to your actions", Al-Baihaqi: Shu'ab al-Imaan and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani: Al-Isaabah fee Taymeez as-Sahaaba




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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlus Sunnah
    salamu alaykum

    well akhi, hearing, seeing, speaking is abstract affirming these literally does not mean Allah has limits, but if we literally says he has HAND ie a limb appendeg etc.. then this is limiting him. or saying that he sees by EYES ie organs is limiting him.
    so Did ALLAH Ta'ala describe himself with attributes which are limited?


    http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tahawi.html


    I dont know what abu imaan is on about because its clearly stated in line 30 He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.

    Also we see tafwid in line 35

    The Seeing of Allah by the People of the Garden' (Al-Jannah) is true, without their vision being all-encompassing and without the manner of their vision being known. As the Book of our Lord has expressed it: `Faces on that Day radiant, looking at their Lord'. [al-Qiyamah 75:22-3] The explanation of this is as Allah knows and wills. Everything that has come down to us about this from the Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, in authentic traditions, is as he said and means what he intended.

    We do not delve into that, trying to interpret it according to our own opinions or letting our imaginations have free rein. No one is safe in his religion unless he surrendershimself completely to Allah, the Exalted and Glorified and to His Messenger, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and leaves the knowledge of things that are ambiguous to the one who knows them.

    End of qoute

    Pure tafwid there and no one can play with the words to change it saying he meant this or meant that . He clearly makes tafwid
    well my brother here is the translation of the same point from the website you quoted

    Quote Originally Posted by From [url
    http://www.ummah.net/Al_adaab/tahawi.html[/url]

    Al-'Arsh wal-Kursi>: The Tablet and The Pen

    Al-'Arsh (the Throne) and al-Kursi (the Chair) are true.
    He is independent of the Throne and what is beneath it.
    He encompasses everything and is above it, and what He has created is incapable of encompassing Him.
    similar or the same as what brother danish has posted.

    So the question is not 'I don't know what br. Abu Imaan is on about' rather it should be "What on earth is going on? The ash'aris and maturidis say one thing andd the scholars say another? Ajeeb!


    Interestingly the english translation of 'Sharh 'aqeedah Tahawiyyah translated by Muhammad Abdul-Haqq Ansari has this as point #61. on page 226-241. Published by Al-Imam Muhammad Bin Sa'ud Islamic University. And the Arabic Edition I have is that of Mu'assasat Ar-Risalah Tahqeeq by Shaykh Shua'yb al-Arna'ut and Shaykh Dr. 'Abd Allah bin 'Abd Muhsin At-Turki 2nd edition (2001/1421) in the 2nd volume pages 442-449.

    The maturidi sharh I have is that of Abdul-Ghani Al-Ghunaymi al-Maydani tahqeeq by Muhammad Muti al-Hafiz and Muhammad Riyad al Malih, Dar al-Fikr,(2002/1422), page 93, it states:


    (wa bima fawqahu) wa bima tahtahu....
    interesting.....

    wa ALLAHU A'lam
    "Sit with one whose limbs address you, not his mouth." Sahl ibn `Abd Allah ibn Yunus, Abu Muhammad al-Tustari (d. 283), may Allah be well-pleased with him.

    قال إبن عمر: "ولا يكن في قولك فضل على فعلك" ,أخرج البيهقي: شعب الإيمان وابن حجر العسقلاني: الإصابة في تمييز الصحابة

    Ibn 'Umar said: "And do not let your words be in excess to your actions", Al-Baihaqi: Shu'ab al-Imaan and Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani: Al-Isaabah fee Taymeez as-Sahaaba




    Justice for those who are oppressed!

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    as salaamu alaykum,


    Naam interesting indeed akhi, jazakallah khayr

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlus Sunnah
    , hearing, seeing, speaking is abstract .

    what do you mean by abstract? When humans hear it's through ears.... So are you making comparisons with Allah when you Affirm the attribute of hearing literally?


    but if we literally says he has HAND
    You just need to affirm what Allah affirms himself and his Messenger (peace be upon him) affirmed for him - and accept them as they come and not delve into the matter trying to say they mean this or that (.e.g. Yad does not mean hand but means bounty)...When you affirm hearing do you say hearing like this and that.... biologically and physically humans can hear through sound waves through the air that are "caught" by the ear. This is one type of hearing. Sometimes voices can be heard from inside the head. and so on... The point is, does it mean Allah hears as we do? No, of course not as he has said the Quran [with the english meaning] "There is nothing like him". So just as you affirm hearing literally without asking how affirm the other attributes as the salaf did, and don't be like those who came after trying to find explanations for things which what the salaf were comfortable with.


    You should accept them on their literal meaning and not delve into how. Your understanding of attributing a hand for Allah (as he affirmed that for himself) is wrong and you contradict you're own belief when you affirm other attributes.

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