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Taqi Uthmani and writing Fatiha with urine

This is a discussion on Taqi Uthmani and writing Fatiha with urine within the Islamic Theology and Ideology forums, part of the Islamic Knowledge category; Originally Posted by Sharif_Abu_Jafar I said: remember the statement of al-Qaradawi concerning the Jews and elections and about Allah, the ...

  1. #11
    Muslim y-mughal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sharif_Abu_Jafar View Post
    I said: remember the statement of al-Qaradawi concerning the Jews and elections and about Allah, the Exalted? For this statement some accused the Azhari Shaykh of Kufr, and alluded even to apostacy!
    Ibn Uthaymeen.

  2. #12
    Peculiarly Ostrobogulous Expergefactionist's Avatar
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    JK brother Shareef for your excellent post!
    A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.

    Albert Einstein

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abualqamah View Post
    Salam aleykum

    I think this deserve a different thread from Taqleed

    read this and judge yourself the status of this man...

    May Allah protect us

    JazakAllaah khair for your post.

    (Before I write any further, I wish to say my english is not so good.)

    It is not hard for me to believe this. I have also read in a book about jamat tableegh, that Zakariyyah Saheb has given some similar answer to a questioner. That book was in Urdu, published by a scholar from Madinah University.

    I am not so comfortable with Deobandis.

    My teacher who taught me Quran, may Allaah protect him, is a deobandi scholar. I have great respect for him, he is mashAllah pro-taliban, and his sons are in the path of Allah.

    I remember him once giving a dars to students in the madrasah, in which he very severely criticised the 'ghair muqallids', and he quoted the Quran Surah Nisaa , ayah 115, and said, the Ummah and specially the momineen have decided that taqleed is an obligation , and so whoever goes against this , his destination is hell!

    After the dars I went to him and said: I like the people of hadeeth. I thought he would explode at me. Instead he said that his niece is also from ahle Hadeeth and that some of these people are good! He never showed me any disrespect.

    And my brother. He was previously a salafi. Later he became a tableeghi, and finally a staunch supporter of deobandi scholars. He reads books of Taqi Usmaani, and gave me a few books to help me understand his choice.he has spent much time with a well known deobandi scholar. He now believes that doing Sajdah to someone other than Allaah is not kufr that throws a person out of the fold of islaam, but just something haraam. he also states that mansoor hallaj, the dog, may Allaah curse him, was an outstanding momin, and that he was not really wrong when he said : innee anal haqq (or something similar) because of something to do with kashf , which my brother himself does not seem to understand and warns others not to dwell into these matters (as they are understood only by the very big scholars). And he hates salafis! he also thinks that the good scholars of Saudi, like the imaam of haram who once came to a mosque where he prays, is not from ahle hadeeth, but from hanbalee madh-hab.

    I thank Allah that He has shown me the path of salaf-as-saliheen, even a slight deviation seems to bring a dented belief in people.

    I respect deobandi scholars and I believe they are excellent Muslims but perhaps not the best. But I do hate those that clearly write such nonsense. Their nice akhlaaq do not make them immune from errors in their aqeedah.

    And it is worth noting that baraelwi scholars sometimes clearly state that deobandi scholars believe in the same things they themselves believe in, except that the deobandi scholars hide such 'facts'. I know one thing for sure, the deobandi do believe in 'hidden meanings'. They have lot of strange stories of awliyaa. I have heard this in one of the lectures of Miraaj Rabbaani, may Allaah guide me and him.

    Anyway , there are outstanding scholars on the path of salah as saliheen , why do we need to learn from others?

    And to brother AbuzZubair , ahabbakAllaah, may I know what would you advice with regards to a scholar from whom such things are proven beyond doubt?

  4. #14
    Peculiarly Ostrobogulous Expergefactionist's Avatar
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    Well, this is the problem. I once bumped into some hardcore Hanafis who asked me if I know of Sh Zaino. When I said yes, the guy just hanged his head down and said, he's gone... He used to be a Hanafi and now he is ghayr muqallid. Whoever becomes ghayr muqallid he's gone... he has no hope. I then started arguing with him about the need of being balanced, etc... He was accusing Sh Zaino of the same sort of blasphemes that Ahl-e-hadis accuse the Hanafis of. But people driven by hate cannot be reasoned with.

    This is why, I would go and learn from the hanafi and ahl-e-hadis scholars whatever they have to offer. But as soon as they start having a dig at each other, I would switch off. Take the good and keep out of their mess. And as I have said many times before, it is more to do with Paki mentality than anything else. For Paki students of knowledge, I would strongly advise that they travel to learn from scholars of different countries. This will broaden their horizon and they'll realise that scholars from all different regions have their own deficiencies that we should avoid and take the good they all have to offer.

    I must admit, contrary to the picture that many have drawn of the najdis, they are the most objective and balanced people I have found. They also suffer from certain type of mentality due to the region they come from, as do we since we come from the UK.

    He now believes that doing Sajdah to someone other than Allaah is not kufr that throws a person out of the fold of islaam, but just something haraam
    This is what the fiqh books also state. Sajda to other than Allah becomes Kufr if one dos it out of ta'dheem. But doing it for tahiyya, just salutations, as the Japanese people may do is not Kufr but Haram. Remember, Sajda as a salutation was legislated in Sharias previous to Islam.

    he also states that mansoor hallaj, the dog, may Allaah curse him, was an outstanding momin, and that he was not really wrong when he said : innee anal haqq (or something similar)
    I have a book on my shelf by Deobandis against the Ahl-e-Hadis accusing them of exactly the same. They even quote from their works verbatim, with even scans.

    And he hates salafis!
    That;s the mentality he follows, he doesn't have much choice in that respect. And this is what I am speaking against. Just because someone hates you, you do not have to hate him.

    Anyway , there are outstanding scholars on the path of salah as saliheen , why do we need to learn from others?
    Because these others have contributed to the various aspects of Islamic law which the Ahl-eHadis scholars have not.

    Mufti Taqi Uthmani has been a leading figure with respect to Islamic financing/banking, application of Sharia in the modern world, minority issues and many other nawazil. He is, I believe, the chairman of Jeddah Fiqh council. Ahl-e-Hadis contribution has been restricted to Hadith sciences, or at least, this is all I have been exposed to.

    Mufti Taqi Uthmani recently came to England to deliver a course on the principles of Islamic finance. Only if a scholar from Ahl-e-Hadis contributed in such fields.
    A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.

    Albert Einstein

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    JazakAllaah khair ya akh Abuz Zubayr for your reply.

    May Allaah bless you further in your knowledge and understanding.


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    Default His first TV appearance

    as salamu`alaykum,

    for those who understand Urdu...really worth watching (on the "women's right" bill) the whole video please. Masha Allah, he really articulated the points well.


  8. #17
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    many Deobandis of today (don't know about the past ones) do not hate Salafis, maybe ahl al Hadith of Pakistan, but I noticed on teh internet many of them calling us Salafis and not Wahhabis like other sufi groups do, and they have respect for shaikh al Islam Ibn Taimiyyah and Ibn al Qayyim rahimahum Allah, even if they disagree with them on some beliefs.
    and they even use some materials written by Salafi shaikhs in some of their sites, things not related to aqeedah issues that we have differences in.

    also, they are not sooooooo extreme as other sufi groups, especially Brelwis, and they fight them.
    (I have heard that their older ones had some similar beliefs to Brelwis, but it seems the teacehrs of today are not exactly like their past ones?)

    actually not all Deobandis are exactly the same, I met one who studied under deobandi teachers, ang said that him and his teachers believe that Salafis are from ahl assunnah.

    and some Deobandis are against mawlid, and some other issues that other sufi groups argue for.

    why make an enemy out of everyone even less extreme ones?
    I don't mean that we don't refute their beliefs that are wrong, but I mean that we should not be hating them and fighting them like we do with extreme ones.

    I discuss with Deobandis but do not make them an enemy.

    I don't know if you get what I am saying.

    I have met very nice Deobandi bros and sisters, I see many similarities between us, and I think that is good.

    I have seen very big difference between them and extreme sufis ... I don't want to mention any names, I am sure you know the famous sufis on the internet who are always attacking Salafis and spread their false beliefs.

    May Allah protect the Muslims from their deviancies.

  9. #18
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    Default From the horse's mouth?

    Assalamu Alaikum,

    Firstly, I would like to thank brother Abuz Zubair and all the other brothers involved in dawah on this site for the great job they have been doing and the immense benefit I have gotten from it (esp, with respect to Tawheed Asmaa wa Saifaat).

    I thought the following article, "Yasir Qadhi & The Deobandis: Unite With “Moderate” Sufis?" (one of the many of its kind floating around on the deobandi blogs on the net) might shed some perspective on this discussion from the 'other side' of the fence...

    However, before you get to the article, a brief intro to the little that I have understood about this controversy.

    Please note that all the beliefs held by the deobandis mentioned by the (deobandi) author of the article himself can be confirmed in the expose written about them by brother sajid at the ahya website:
    (See 2nd attachment below: TJ_03.pdf)

    In the write up by brother sajid mentioned above, for the most part, simply quotes extensively from deobandi sources, from their major scholars and a'imah. Scholars like the three main imams of this school and originators of the the madrassah at deoband (Rashid Ahmed Gangohi, Qassim Nanotwi and Ashraf ali thanvi, may Allah have mercy on them all and forgive their and all our mistakes), scholars like their shaikh-ul-kul, their top imam (whom the three mentioned previously gave the sufi bayah to), Haji Imdadullah Muhaajir Makki and finally scholars like Maulana Idrees kandhalwi who started of the the tableeghi jamaat (He also gave the sufi bayah to one of the three mentioned above).

    The point I guess I'm trying to make is that their seems to be too much evidence from their own sources, scholars and books, heaps of it, in the form of quotes, paragraphs, fatawa, poetry as well as whole books that cannot just be over-looked and ignored for the sake of convenience, benefit of doubt or a desire for unity. Too much evidence indicatiing entrenchement of beliefs like wahdatul wujood, istighasa bil amwaat wal quboor, belief in the 'tassarruf fil kawn' of the ghawth, aqtaab and awtaad and a lot more...

    Either that or I've just been missing something very big, in which case if anyone could explain to me how to reconcile it all, I would indeed be very obliged and sincerely thankful, for I have great respect for the good that has come out of the likes of sh. Taqi Usmani however if that isn't possible, then should not the purity of this deen be more important then personalities, no matter who they might be?

    And before the thought comes to your mind, no, all of it has not been just misquoted out of context in some bizarre conspiracy to malign the deobandies out of a personal agenda. please do take the trouble to check the sources and articles mentioned above for yourself and for more confirmation, read on...

    Jazakallah for all your patience...

    Yasir Qadhi & The Deobandis: Unite With “Moderate” Sufis?

    Salamu `Alaykum

    Most are already aware of Shaykh Yasir Qadhi due to his contentious rant against Shaykh Sayyid Muhammad ibn `Alawi, which provoked strong outcry from many (see: Jinnzaman). It was indeed outrageous to see such character assassination taking place in the name of tawhid against one whose scholarship was acknowledged from east to west and whose ijaza’s came from some of the greatest `ulema the 20th century had ever seen. Even though Shaykh Yasir Qadhi refused to offer any sort of apology, rather reiterating at a conference to one of my close friends that he stands by what he says and would have allowed his post on the Al Maghrib forum to remain if he had his way, this is not the time or place to discuss his slander and attack on the awliya. It would not be worth my time to defend the Sayyid against such people. When they reach his level we will listen to what they have to say.

    Now, Shaykh Yasir Qadhi is upto something different and it has to do directly with some of the Deobandis and the “moderate” sufis. Thus, as a Deobandi, I feel that people should be aware of these tactful ploys on the part of the Salafi’s which serve merely to further their own goals and purposes by sugar-coating their approach with an intellectual and accepting attitude which some see through and others, unfortunately, do not. I had been hearing for quiet some time that Shaykh Yasir Qadhi was speaking to some Deobandis regarding specific issues. I also was aware that many of the Deobandi `ulema were researching up on Shaykh Yasir Qadhi to evaluate his stances and to see whether he generally fell into what we categorise as Traditional Sunnism. It is important to note here that Shaykh Yasir Qadhi did not consider Shaykh Nuh and his murids to be “moderate” sufis, thus, effectively throwing them out of his “unity” advocacy. I think Shaykh Qadhi may have forgotten (or most probably was simply ignorant of) the fact that Shaykh Nuh has good relations with a few of the most senior and representative individuals of the Deobandi manhaj: Mufti Rafi` `Uthmani and Mufti Taqi `Uthmani, not to mention many of the Deobandi `ulema who have read his works consider him to be nothing other than a traditional, high ranking Sunni scholar. This is an addition to the fact that many of the concepts Shaykh Nuh propogates as a part of tasawwuf are also propogated by the Deobandi Akabir. khayr…

    The simple thing i would like to convey at this point, without getting into too many details of the “actual” talks, is that the Deobandis simply cannot and will not accept Shaykh Yasir Qadhi’s proposal, nor his stances, nor his methodology, or beliefs. Rather, the Deobandis should be considered as engrossed in shirkiyyah and deviant beliefs as Sayyid Muhammad ibn `Alawi supposedly was according to Shaykh Qadhi for a number of reasons:

    [1] We are proponents of the soundness of the Ash`ari and Maturidi schools of belief and define Ahly Sunnah as one who follows either. Contrast this to Yasir Qadhi’s “refutation” of Ash`ari’s here.

    [2] We are proponents of taqlid of the four schools of fiqh. Taqlid is to follow someone without knowledge of the proofs. Yasir Qadhi rejects this in numerous places with the typical rhetoric of following the “Qur’an and sunna“.

    [3] We promote following a spiritual path by giving bayah to a spiritual guide. Contrast to this Yasir Qadhi’s statement:

    “Since there is no evidence to support such a bay’ah, and this bay’ah has religious connotations, it must be labeled an innovation.” (Link)

    “To summarize, there are in the present day and age no organized Sufi tariqahs that are error-free.” (Link)
    [4] Within the spiritual path we believe in concepts such as wahdat al wujud, karama (miracles), kashf (unveiling), ilham, sama’ (poetic recital) with ecstacy and other overwhelming experiences of the soul.

    [5] We believe the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) was the first creation, and a light (nur) before a body, and that if it were not for him Allah would not have created anything. We agree with Imam Busayri’s statement, ” “And of your generosity is the creation of the Wolrd and its co-wife (i.e. the Hereafter)…” which Shaykh Yasir considers as a statement of shirk.

    [6] We believe in his viewing of the deeds of his ummah, praying for them, and witnessing.

    [7] We believe in his authority to act as our intermediary in this life and the next. This intermediation can be done through imploring Allah through his status, honor, and right, calling out to him infront of his grave, seeking his aid, and so forth. We attest to the statement of Imam Busayri, “And who else there, besides you, who I can call out, at times of distress and problems?” Contrast this to Shaykh Yasir’s statement:

    “If any person openly proclaims such beleifs, then he has contradicted numerous explicit verses in the Quran, and there is no serious need to show his deviancy. He has placed himself to a level similar to some groups of the Christians” (Link)
    And his statement regarding the Burda:

    “However, that doesn’t change the fact that there is blatant shirk in all three categories of tahweed in that poem: shrik in ruboobiyyah, uloohiyyah and asma wa sifaat.” (Link)
    [8] We believe he (Allah bless him and grant him peace) is alive in his grave and his life in his grave is stronger than what we conceive as life on earth.

    [9] We believe that the area he (Allah bless him and grant him peace) is buried in is the most holiest and noble of all lands and creation, ever moreso than the `arsh and the ka`aba. (see: imadad al fatawa)

    [10] We believe that visiting the grave of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace), the awliya, and the `ulema is a prasieworthy religious practice. Shaykh Yasir states that making it a primary intention to visit such sites is a bida`.

    [11] We believe that within their relics lie baraka and shifa’.

    [12] We believe in his knowledge of the unseen (`ilm al ghayb) and we believe that his knowledge encompasses “the knowlege of the Tablet and the Pen.”

    [13] We believe in the possibility of the visitation of the Prophet (Allah bless him and grant him peace) and the awliya to righteous, living Muslims in a wakeful state i.e. a return of their souls to the world or gazing upon the Prophet’s barzakhi body, or his light and so forth.

    [14] We believe in the countless miracles of the awliya such as their walking on water, disappearing from sight, the worlds folding up for them, their peering into hearts, and so forth.

    [15] We believe in the hierarchy of their ranks such as the ghawth, qutb, abdaal and so forth.

    [16] We attest to the righteousness of the likes of shaykh al akbar Ibn `Arabi, Mansur al Hallaj, Imam Shadhili, Moinuddin Chishti, Imam Suhrawardi, Imam Rifa`i, Imam Busayri, Imam Jazuli, our master al hajj Imdadullah Muhajir Makki, and others from the great saints of Islam whom people consider as deviated (we seek refuge!). Contrast this to Shaykh Yasir’s statement:

    “However, later more radical beliefs crept in, such as wahdat al-wujud (manifested in people such as al-Hallaj, Ibn Arabi and Ibn Sabi’an), and these poeple Ibn Taymiyyah considered non-Muslims.” (Link)
    [17] We believe in the practices prescribed by the spiritual masters such as doing specific amounts of dhikr - loud or silent -. We permit movment with this dhikr and do not condemn any modality of such remembrance. Contrast this to Shaykh Yasir proving the unsufiness of Ibn Taymiyya by stating he was against:

    “Sufi awrad which each and every tariqah, without exception, is guilty of.” (Link)
    Yasir Qadhi while mentioning some of the “mistakes” of the sufis, quoting Ibn Taymiyya, states:

    “Regarding Ibn Taymiyyah’s relationship with ‘Sufism’, really it all depends on how one wishes to define this rather ambiguous term. If Sufism is purely about tazkiyah an-nafs, then who amongst the Muslims does not wish to purify his soul? But the reality is that the group which identifies itself with these words also manifests mistakes in a number of areas, and Ibn Taymiyyah was a very vocal critique of all of these mistakes.
    So, for example, he was against:
    - group dhikrs
    - Sufi awrad which each and every tariqah, without exception, is guilty of
    - the unconditional veneration of saints
    - traveling to visit the grave of any saint or prophet
    - believing that the Quran has a ‘batin’ (hidden) meaning that has nothing to do with its epxlicit meaning, and which Allah blesses His chosen servants with
    - believing that the Sunnah of the Prophet salla Allah alahyi wa sallam is somehow insufficient for worship and hence extra acts need to be added on to the relgion (such as the Mawlid)
    - looking down upon studious scholarship with the presumption that real knowledge is not gained through rigourous study but rather thru khalwa
    - taking one’s beliefs and acts from sources such as dhawq, kashf, and ilhaam (all Sufi terminoligies)
    - believing in the existence of a hiearchy of ’saints’ awliya, qutb, ghawth, etc (again a belief each and every Sufi tariqah is guilty of)
    - believing that it is necessary for a person to become a ‘murid’ and have a ’shaykh’ whom he must unconditionally obey or give bay’ah to
    And as can be seen there are quite a few aspects above which we Deobandis staunchly believe in. As such, what exactly does Shaykh Yasir mean by “moderate” sufi? What he proposes as a moderate sufi is in reality the same person who propogates “blatant shirk” and innovation according to him.
    This should be a warning and a sign to all Deobandis. We will not compromise the beliefs of our akabir, or their practices, for such people in whose eyes the akabir were guilty of bida` and shirk. It is a warning of the dangers of the Salafis and their inherent opposition to the true manhaj of Ahly Sunnah. Such people are guilty of promoting animosity towards the awliya through their methodologically challenged outlook.

    We pray that Allah protects His friends, and guides those who have enmity towards them lest He declare war on them. We pray that Allah does not divert our attention from the “Real” and the true goal of the path.

    wa anta haqqan ghiyathu al-khalqi ajma`ihim
    wa anta hadi al-wara lillahi dhi al-madadi

    And you (the Prophet) are in truth the helper of all creation,
    and you are the guide of mortals to Allah, Owner of help.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default From another blog...

    Original article written by "shaikh" Faraz Rabbani of Sunnipath on his blog was titled:

    "When Mountains meet."

    Sayyidi wa Sanadi Mufti Taqi Usmani db visits Sheikh Nuh db

    From our most dear & respected Shaykh Faraz Rabbani sahib db's site:

    Today, I had the honor of a lifetime: I picked up Mufti Taqi Usmani from his hotel (he’s here for the Islamic Fiqh Academy sessions this week in Amman) and took him to visit Shaykh Nuh Keller at the latter’s house in Kharabsheh.

    It was a beautiful meeting of two great luminaries of our times. An important issue raised and agreed upon by both scholars was the importance of considerations of tazkiya (spiritual benefit) when one answers religious questions. The point of religion is to promote deen in the lives of people, which is why the fuqaha deemed systematically seeking out dispensations to be impermissible, and why they encouraged people to follow one school of law.

    (As an aside, please make dua for Mufti Taqi: he got a bit sick in the afternoon, and we’re now cooking Pakistani food for him over the upcoming days, instead of the hotel stuff he preferred to avoid.)

    Allah SWT give Hazrat db complete, quick and pur-afiyat recovery. Ameen.

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    Your post is kind of messed up...bro , Its not easy to figure out what u are quoting or what u are saying urself ....

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