Manahij in studying knowledge - What is the way?

[Abu Nuh]

The general thumbrule in studying the Sacred Sciences is that of patient tadarruj - starting each science with a basic beginner's book and moving on from that to more advanced levels. It is know that any truly serious student should stick to a program like this and not jump up the latter even if he thinks he already knows some of the stuff he is told to focus on.

This thread is not about admonishing people to stick to tadarruj -because we already know it is a must for any tryly dedicated student- but rather a discussion on what to do when your own teachers do not want you to do tadarruj! This may sound strange, but it is an unfortunate reality as I've read from Ibn Badran for example in his advice to the students.

So, perhaps the most well known example of this phenomenon is that of the Islamic University of Madina. The program in every department of the Uni begins with Bidayat al-Mujtahid in fiqh and Raudat al-Nazir in usul al-Fiqh and Muqaddima ibn Salah in mustalah among other topics.

If a student already knows arabic he is forced to follow this program whether he has a background in Islamic studies or not, and the story goes that some people do not even know what the word fiqh means when they enter the class - and there they are, studying comparative fiqh and graduating in four years.

So, what is a person to do in this state? What is the best way to get maximum benefit out of these studies since he has to go through the program regardless? No doubt he is encouraged to attend lessons that match his level outside the school and attain a good grasp on the sciences that way, but still, I'm sure there's ways to totally screw up the Uni studies as well as ways to gain some good supplement for the studies in masajid.

What is the best way to go about it facing this difficult situation and gain the maximum benefit? How should one balance his masjid studies and his uni studies to benefit the most?

I've also been thinking that perhaps these Unis were actually set up for people who naturally study the muqaddimat of every science in marhala mutawassita and thanawiyya, so beginning with such big books isn't as big of a deal...and then later on - for some reason - they started putting unexperienced ignoramuses to study in the class and graduate just as the advanced ones graduate. Could it be?

Please, people with experience in studying, contribute if you shall and those with no experience no matter how you desire do not say a thing.

Thank you.

[Abu Nuh]

Here's some insight a student there gave me:

...trust me when I tell you that the level isn't that high as it might seem on the paper. Yes, bidayat al-mujtahid is part of the curriculum as well as other advanced books, but that doesn't mean that the studies are at the level of those books. It might sound a bit paradoxical but that's the truth! So it's not as advanced as it should be at a university level. Probably they realized a while back that the large majority of students aren't qualified to REALLY study books such as bidayat al-mujtahid, so instead of just simply modify the curriculum they kept it as it is and made the exams ridiculously easy! This could vary depending on your teacher but in general any normally gifted student would pass exams without major difficulties!

[Abu Nuh]

Another brother:

Other than Madina, all universities here teach al-Rawd al-Murbi. Ideally, one should read Akhsar al-Mukhtasarat and Umdah or Manhaj al-Salikin and Umdah before that to be thoroughly grounded.

However, if you're not, the solution is to try and make do to the best of your ability with what your dealt with. 4 yrs is not enough anyways, so this is just what you're stuck with.

If you're studying al-Rawd al-Murbi for example, then prepare for your lessons by reading the lesson in advance, but not from Rawd, from al-Sharh al-Mukhtasar by al-Fawzan. In that case, the surah of the mas'ala will be clear in your mind beforehand and perhaps some of the daleel and ta'leel as well.

In Madina, they do Bidayat al-Mujtahid in school, but you have the opportunity to study any madhhab of your choice outside Jami'a. So u simply make sure to do so in the time you are there, starting from when you arrive, and with proper tadarruj. Let that be the meat of your learning and look at your Jami'a lessons as supplemental. Sad, but true.

If you know your are going to be starting Muqaddima ibn al-Salah or something like that, then the summer before, take the initiative to read through al-Nukhba with a good sharh, preferably something clear and contemporary like Tariq b. Awad Allah's as that would be easier (not to mention better) than Nuzhat al-Nazar. You would then be prepared for whatever comes your way, in sha Allah.

In many cases, the more advanced texts are not so difficult to understand, but the details are easily forgotten because of too much information all at once, a problem that doesn't exist when proper tadarruj.

Incidentally, read ibn Badran's advices on learning/teaching at the end of his Madkhal. He mentions that by using the method of tadarruj (starting with extremely mukhtasar until reaching the long mutun), he was able to master the various ulum in just six years of reading with mashayikh, and did not need to continue after that. That in my view is a very good timeframe.

[Abu Hamouda]

As-salamu 'alaykum,

This is a very interesting thread.

[Abu Nuh]

We hope that more people contribute (especially people who have studied or are studying in a saudi or other islamic uni).

I think that this type of information has been hidden from many for quite long despite its usefulness in evaluating our own studies as well as helping us solve "the madina graduate shaikh" problem.

And just to add: If somebody has other beneficial points siding the exact topic but sticking to the issue of manahij in saudi and other islamic unis, I do allow you to stray from the actual topic.

[justabro]

I've also been thinking that perhaps these Unis were actually set up for people who naturally study the muqaddimat of every science in marhala mutawassita and thanawiyya, so beginning with such big books isn't as big of a deal...and then later on - for some reason - they started putting unexperienced ignoramuses to study in the class and graduate just as the advanced ones graduate. Could it be?

Generally, the majority of Saudi students don't want to study Shar'i sciences. The majority of those who get into Shari'a or Hadith, etc. are there because they're too thick to be in Engineering. Hence the ignoramuses...

This is in spite of the fact that studies in Saudi are generally quite weak across the board. I wouldn't let a Saudi engineer even touch my Lego's much less build me something.

[Abu Nuh]

Yes, I've also understood that generally if you see a saudi in the office applying for the Islamic Uni, he is there because he failed getting in all other places. Naturally exceptions exist in every group.

However, would we say that the books begin from such an advanced level because the students are supposed to go through some muqaddimat before in mutawassita and thanawiyya, or did they just make the manhaj like that really thinking people should begin with such advanced books?

This from a brother really makes me chuckle:

Probably they realized a while back that the large majority of students aren't qualified to REALLY study books such as bidayat al-mujtahid, so instead of just simply modify the curriculum they kept it as it is and made the exams ridiculously easy!

[justabro]

Yes, I've also understood that generally if you see a saudi in the office applying for the Islamic Uni, he is there because he failed getting in all other places. Naturally exceptions exist in every group.

However, would we say that the books begin from such an advanced level because the students are supposed to go through some muqaddimat before in mutawassita and thanawiyya, or did they just make the manhaj like that really thinking people should begin with such advanced books?

This from a brother really makes me chuckle:

The curriculum has been modified... alot... but what would be the point if everyone just studied Usul al-Thalatha for 4 yrs? They have to have something to show for their "degrees".

This is why alot of mashayikh have simply quit teaching in universities. Sh. Abdullah al-Sa'd is absolutely against them. He never even bothered to do more than the Ma'had Ilmi (equivalent of bachelor's). Of course, back in his day, that was the place to study, but he has no Master's or PhD and he doesn't want one either. I was recently listening to his Sharh of Muqizah. When he talked about the section on Abad for the student of Hadith and the importance of Ikhlas, he really tore into the universities and the degrees.

He said they have taken away much of the Ikhlas and the Ilm. You will find a person أجهل من حمار أهله 'more ignorant than the family donkey' yet he is called Dr. in Aqidah or Hadith, wal-iyyadhu billah. And I can vouch for it. I've seen a PhD in Tafsir who looks and speaks like a Jahil Ammi. He's not completely without Ilm - in fact he's Hafiz of Qur'an - but you would never believe the man is an Alim, ever!

[Abu Nuh]

This is an issue. The students who I've been speaking to surprisingly said to me when I asked about their studies: "Yeah...so and so is failing his courses and sometimes he doesn't even attend." Yet I know so and so studies under mashayikh outside the school and has succeeded quite well in his studies there. They say that the uni is nowadays more of a way to stay inside the country and study with the mashayikh.

So here I begin to figure: If I want to master my uni studies to the best of my ability (according to what the teachers require from me) I would have to sacrifice perhaps even much of the time others use with mashayikh. On the other hand, if one approaches his uni studies in a bit more relaxed manner - so to say - he would get to spend much time with the mashayikh. Which of these should one prefer?

[IbnShaykh]

This discussion raises some serious concerns about the way these institutions are ran.

Justabro et al, how does one become a strong talib ul ilm whilst there then? What should you seek out in the first year, and then following that? Who should you try to sit with? What books should you try to cover?