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Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers

This is a discussion on Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers within the Islamic Law forums, part of the Islamic Knowledge category; بسم الله والحمد للله وصلاة والسلام على رسول الله In the clip below, Hamza Yusuf said the following regarding Sheikhul ...

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    Exclamation Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers

    بسم الله والحمد للله وصلاة والسلام على رسول الله


    In the clip below, Hamza Yusuf said the following regarding Sheikhul Islam ibn Taimiyyah rahimahullah in a conference titled “Rethinking Islamic Reform” at Oxford University, London:

    “Ibn Taimiyyah himself permitted women to lead men in prayer if they were illiterate and she was literate. He just said that she should lead from the back so she won’t distract the men. Ibn Taimiyyah permtting a women to lead men in prayer (Pause and further emphasis added through body language). Right? This is the tradition, it’s all there. People have no idea how many of these issues have been already examined, discussed, and incredible erudition and energy went into this. So if you look, the Islamic tradition has within itself has all of the needs to renovate the house but it is going to take an immense amount of intellectual energy, very very highly qualified people which necessitates institutions that can train and produce the types of people that are needed to engage in this activity…”


    The claim was brought forward to Sheikh Abu Adnan (May Allah preserve him) and this was the Sheikh’s reply:

    I couldn’t find where Ibn Taimiyyah himself permits women to lead men in prayer and that she should lead from the back so she won’t distract the men.

    What was found is in Naqid Maratib Al ijma’). He said:

    (ائتمام الرجال الأميين بالمرأة القارئة في قيام رمضان يجوز في المشهور عن أحمد، وفي سائر التطوع روايتان.)

    “the Ummy (illiterate) men to follow the qari’ah woman in salaah alQiyyam in Ramadan is allowed in the famous opinion narrated from Ahmed and in all the optional salaat there are two narrations from the Imam.”

    There are a few points we can take from this:

    1. We see that Ibn Taimiyyah narrated from Imam Ahmad and it was not his own opinion; that it is permissible because the men are not able to lead, therefore a need and necessity arose. The woman takes the lead because she is the only one who is able to recite properly and correctly. According to the scholars of Fiqh, ‘ummy’ (illiterate) means someone who can’t read/recite the alFatiha. One of the main conditions of correctly leading the prayers (Imamah) is the ability to read the Fatiha correctly.

    2. The case was not in regard to the obligatory prayers. It was regarding the Taraweeh in Ramadan and for when the method of praying it requires an Imam. More importantly, The Teraweeh is an optional prayer. In regards to the other optional prayers, there are two narrations from Imam Ahmad. It is clear, that the difference of opinion is in the optional prayers and not on the obligatory prayers which includes the Friday khutbah and prayer. [Hamza Yusuf failed to cite this salient point, especially when the "issue in America a few years ago" that he mentioned was about a women leading the Friday rituals]

    3. Ibn Taimiyyah was simply quoting a statement in the Hanbali madhab. Ibn Taimiyyah narrated this point not to agree or disagree with the statement/opinion [Hamza Yusuf claims that he agreed with the opinion]. Moreover, the reason why Ibn Taimiyyah wrote Naqid Maratib al-ijma’ was to correct the Ijma (consensus) rulings narrated by Ibn Hazim in his book Maratib al-ijma’. Ibn Hazm (rahimahullah) narrated the following:

    (اتفقوا أن المرأة لا تؤم الرجال وهم يعلمون أنها امرأة، فإن فعلوا فصلاتهم فاسدة بالإجماع)


    “They agreed that the woman does not lead men when they (the men) are aware that a woman is leading them. If the men are aware, their prayer is void by consensus.”

    What we see here is that ibn Taimiyyah was in fact correcting the actual ijma and it wasn’t the opinion of Ibn Taimiyyah himself.

    4. The description on how the woman should lead was actually made by one of the fathers of the Hanbali Fiqh, ibn Qudamah rahimahullah in his comprehensive work, alMughni; again not by ibn Taimiyyah. In this, ibn Qudamah also restricted it to the optional Taraweeh prayers and he was quoting other Hanaabilah scholars. In fact, Ibn Qudamah had disagreed and refuted the opinion of a woman leading in all prayers and said it is impermissible by the following statements (underlined in the Arabic text below), “…the hadith of the Prophet (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) is sufficient for us, ‘a women should not lead the men…” and he continued by stating, “there is no disagreement (khilaaf) in that she is not allowed to lead them in obligatory Salah…”

    مسألة : إمامة الخنثى مسألة : قال : وإن صلى خلف مشرك أو امرأة أو خنثى مشكل أعاد الصلاة وجملته أن الكافر لا تصح الصلاة خلفه بحال سواء علم بكفره بعد فراغه من الصلاة أو قبل ذلك وعلى من صلى وراءه الإعادة وبهذا قال الشافعي وأصحاب الرأي وقال أبو ثور و المزني لا إعادة على من صلى خلفه وهو لا يعلم لأنه ائتم بمن لا يعلم حاله فأشبه ما لو ائتم بمحدث ولنا أنه ائتم بمن ليس من أهل الصلاة فلم تصح صلاته كما لو ائتم بمجنون وأما المحدث فيشترط أن لا يعلم حدث نفسه والكافر يعلم حال نفسه وأما المرأة فلا يصح أن يأتم بها الرجل بحال في فرض ولا نافلة في قول عامة الفقهاء وقال أبو ثور : لا إعادة على من صلى خلفها وهو قياس قول المزني وقال بعض أصحابنا : يجوز أن تؤم الرجال في التراويح وتكون وراءهملما [ روي عن أم ورقة بنت عبد الله بن الحارث أن رسول الله صلى الله عليه و سلم جعل لها مؤذنا يؤذن لها وأمرها أن تؤم أهل دارها ] رواه أبو داود وهذا عام في الرجال والنساء ولنا قول النبي صلى الله عليه و سلم : [ لا تؤمن امرأة رجلا ] ولأنها لا تؤذن للرجال فلم يجز أن تؤمهم كالمجنون وحديث أم ورقة إنما أذن لها أن تؤم نساء أهل دارها كذلك رواه الدارقنطي وهذه زيادة يجب قبولها ولو لم يذكر ذلك لتعين حمل الخبر عليه لأنه أذن لها أن تؤم في الفرائض بدليل جعل لها مؤذنا والأذان إنما يشرع في الفرائض ولا خلاف في أنها لا تؤمهم في الفرائض ولأن تخصيص ذلك بالتروايح واشتراط تأخرها تحكم يخالف الأصول بغير دليل فلا يجوز المصير إليه ولو قدر ثبوت ذلك لأم ورقة لكان خاصا بها بدليل أنه لا

    يشرع لغيرها من النساء

    Barakallahu feekum
    Note: Comments in the square brackets are not from Sheikh Abu Adnan.

    Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taimiyyah (rahimahullah) and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers | Facebook

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    Default Re: Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers

    May Allah reward Sh. Abu Adnan for his clarification.

    On the point of whether an Ijma' exists, the Maliki scholar, Muhammad b. Sahnun, (d. 256H) also cites a difference of opinion (although he does not mention which scholars held what view), as mentioned in Fatawa ibn Sahnun. He is a contemporary of Imam Ahmad, having died just 15 years after him.
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    http://madkhalis.com/2013/06/the-qui...dkhali-and-co/

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    Default Re: Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers

    What a jâhil.

    Remember it is the guy who said that the whole of Al-Qaida ideology was based on a misprint of the Mardin fatwâ...

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    Default Re: Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers

    Quote Originally Posted by Pluma View Post
    What a jâhil.

    Remember it is the guy who said that the whole of Al-Qaida ideology was based on a misprint of the Mardin fatwâ...
    Which his Shaykh found...let us not forget that either.

    قَال

    :مُحَمَّد بْن بَدْرِ اَلدِّينِ بْنِ عَبْدِ اَلْقَادِرِ بْنِ بَلْبَانَ الْخَزْرَجِيُّ اَلْقَادِرِيُّ, اَلْحَنْبَلِيُّ

    اِجْعَلُوا اَلنَّوَافِلَ كَالْفَرَائِضِ, وَالْمَعَاصِي كَالْكُفْرِ, وَالشَّهَوَاتِ كَالسُّمِّ, وَمُخَالَطَةَ اَلنَّاسِ كَالنَّارِ, وَالْغِذَاءَ كَالدَّوَاءِ

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    Default Re: Sheikh Abu Adnan: Hamza Yusuf, Ibn Taymiyyah and the Issue of Women Leading Men in Prayers

    Assalamu Alaikum,

    Is Hamaz Yusuf a revert? No offense to any of his followers but the ones I have met are like cult members. They email 20 times a day with his messages.

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