Time for Asr Salat (Proof of Hanafi)

[EuropeanMuslim]

6. BTW, if I do Tarjeeh of Abu Hanifah's opinion, does that make a Hanafi automatically? I might be a misguided Hanbali Mujtahid...

you seem to do a lot brother writing essays weighting the scholars are you a scholar could you post your ijaza here or where you studied?

[Harris Hammam]

you seem to do a lot brother writing essays weighting the scholars

I am actually quite lazy.

are you a scholar

Only an idiot would claim he/she is a scholar.

could you post your ijaza here

1. No. Sorry.
2. Exposing The Ijazah/Isnad Culture Of Ash'ari Contemporaries

or where you studied?

No way Jose!

[EuropeanMuslim]

I am actually quite lazy.


Only an idiot would claim he/she is a scholar.


1. No. Sorry.
2. Exposing The Ijazah/Isnad Culture Of Ash'ari Contemporaries


No way Jose!

no ijaza not a scholar studied nowhere i dont think you should judge/weight the scholars and their statements if you are not even qualified yourself

[Harris Hammam]

no ijaza

I said I'm not gonna show you my Ijazah. Who are you? A judge?

not a scholar

Like I said, only an idiot says he/she is a scholar.

studied nowhere

I said I'm not gonna tell you where I studied. But boy, I studied. I'm still lazy though.

i dont think you should judge/weight the scholars and their statements if you are not even qualified yourself

So who should I follow in this issue? Abu Hanifah? Or Abu Yusuf and Muhammad? And based on what criterion? Come on, tell me...

[Pluma]

lol, you know what you are Nouredeen, a stupid fanatic of Abu Hanifa.

How dare you speak like that of the majority of muhadditheen and fuqahaa?

The only Hadith which the Ghair Muqallideen present to substantiate their view of Mithl, i.e. Asr begins after the shadow has reached one length), is the Hadith which ex- plains the times when Jibraeel (alayhis salaam) led Rasu- lullah (sallallahu alayhi wasallam) in Salaat, The Hadith is as follows:

Completely false. There is the hadiith of Jaabir in S. Muslim that Ibn Taymiyya consider as the most authentic hadiith on the topic.

More than that, Ibn 'Abd Al-Barr said that the Hanafi position is against every hadiith.

Lot of what your write is pure crap. I will give it a try sometime.

[ابن مظفر الاثري]

More than that, Ibn 'Abd Al-Barr said that the Hanafi position is against every hadiith.

not only ibn abdulbar,

ibnu almunthir 318 hijri, also mentioned in "alishraaf alaa mathaahib alulamaa", (a book listing the areas of difference among the scholars with their mathaahib therein, with a list of who held which opinion - a must have book for any serious researcher), volume 1, book 11, chapter 2, masalah 350, page 395-396,

The Imam mentioned 3 mathaahib regarding the beginning time of the Asr Salah, then said:

"and there is in this issue a forth opinion: it is that the beginning time of the Asr Salah is that the shadow becomes twice its length after the zawaal, whoever prayed before that, his doing so would not be valid, this is the opinion of al-numaan (abu haneefah); and he went against sound reports from the messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wa sallam in that opinion, and they are mentioned in other than this particular place."


likewise alshawkaanee in nayl alawtaar, volume 1, book 4, chapter 9 under hadeeth 425 pages 331-332

"and as for the beginning time of Asr Salah, the mathhab of al-'itrah (ahlul bayt) and the majority is that it is when the shadow of an object becomes the like there of, as was mentioned previously under the hadeeth of jibreel; whilst alshaafe'i said the time begins as soon as there is an increase in the length of the shadow past that. Yet Abu Haneefah said "mithlayn" -twice the length of an object- and this is "faasid" - corrupt - the authentic ahaadeeth refute it".

Note that alshawkaane mentioned no one else having the same opinion as Abu Haneefah, like ibnu almunthir before him.

alshawkaane goes on to say page 336 after mentioning Hadeeth 430 from raafi' ibn khudayj who said:

"we used to pray the Asr Salah with the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wa sallam, then slaughter a camel, then divide it into 10 parts, then cook it and eat its well-cooked meat before the sun would go down"

narrated by albukhaari 2485 and Muslim 625, and ahmad 16838.

he said"

"the two hadeeth (the one above and the one prior to it in the text giving the same meaning, narrated by muslim 624 from Anas) point towards the mushroo'iyyah of hastening to perform the Asr Salah, as slaughtering a camel, them dividing it, then cooking it until it is well-done, then eating it completely, then being done with all that before the setting of the sun is from the greatest of indicators towards the Asr being offered early on,and it is from the proofs of the majority, and from those proofs are the Hadeeth of ibnu abbaas and jaabir regarding the Salah of Jibreel as well as other than that, all of them refute what Abu Haneefah said, definitely he differed with the people therein, and from amongst those who differed with him were his own companions as his mathhab was previously mentioned".

Imam annawawee mentioned the same point in his commentary of the Hadeeth of Ana in his commentary of Saheeh Muslim, hadeeth 624.

sufficient is it to recognize the invalidity of this opinion, that both of his companions and all of the other Ulama differed with him

It is an established academic fact that Abu Haneefah rahimahullah was the only member of the salaf to arrive at the opinion he held.

insha Allah I will bring the evidences as to why the opinion of the Imam was treated so harshly by the other Ulama, and please remember, he was an Imam, alshaafi'e said that the people are as a family to Abu Haneefah in fiqh (meaning he was like their father, with out him they wouldn't have known anything in fiqh rahimahumullah).

Please give me until after Saturday when I will insha Allah have finished my last exam.

As for the brother who started this topic, brother you have done an extreme disservice to the Imam by assuming such an arrogant and nonacademic approach to dealing with those who have differed with you. Above your being ignorant to all the evidences pertaining to this masalah, and how to correctly understand the texts you were aware of, this masalah is not connected to alwalaa and albaraa so that it becomes permissible for you to harbor or invoke enmity towards anyone who differed with you therein.

If anything, we would have more right to be angry with you for trying to push an irregular, fring opinion on us.

May Allah enlighten our hearts.

Ibn Abbas said that any knowledge learned that did not increase its companion in fear and reverential awe of Allah had been learned for other than Allah, as Allah All-Mighty has has Said "none from amongst the slaves of Allah truly fear him except those of knowledge"

[ابن مظفر الاثري]

QUOTE=Nooruddeen;219445]Yes Barailwis are much closer to Ahlus Sunnat in terms of aqeedah in comparison with the so called "hanaabilah".

There are of course major differences we have with them, but the celebration of mawlid un nabi is not that big a difference.

Therefore I have more respect for barailwis than ghair muqallids and mamatis.

Tahir ul Qadri is despised by even other barailwis. He is exposed for being a shia agent.[/QUOTE]

I just found this on a different thread

Nooruddeen is a pagan mushrik, his bigotry now makes perfect sense to me.

As for the brelvies, there is no doubt in their disbelief for those that know what they are upon, even the deobandies make takfeer of them. I'll list some of there kufreyyat below as they come to me insha Allah, not necessarily in order of "importance", rater as they come to mind
1. The Nabiy sallallahu alaihe wa sallam according to them was not human, but rather made from light.
this is a contradiction of the Saying of Allah in Surah kahf "qul innamaa ana basharun mithlukum", they say that the "innamaa" was not supposed to be written as one word, but rather it is inna maa, changing the meaning to inna maa ana basharun mithlukum. !!!
2. They say the nabiy is present everywhere and sees everything.
This is shirk in asmaa wa sifaat, only Allah Sees everything.
They dont stand during the iqaamah for salah, but wait until the imam is on the musalla as they believe that the Nabiy is present there with they during the iqaamah!! As such it would be disrespectful to stand in his presence!!
During their celebration of the Nabiy's birth date they leave an empty chair at in front of them, as they believe that the Nabiy sits their during their party...!!
3. They regard directly making du'aa to the Nabiy, or indeed any of the pious deceased person to be a praiseworthy act, even if it be for things that none have the power to facilitate beside Allah, like.. oh muhammad grant me paradise. oh abdulqaadir aljallaane forgive me my sins. oh muhammad interceed for me. oh mhammad help us in our trials.
All of these things are shirkiyyaat.
dua is an ebaadah, as in the Hadeeth, aldu'aa huwa alebaadah, likewise Allah Says in surah Jinn "wa annalmasaajida lillaah falaa tad'oo ma'allaahi ahadan" and He Says "qaala rabbukumud'oonee astajiblakum. wa innaallatheena yastakberoona 'an 'ebaadatee sayadakhuloona jahannama daakhireen"
anything Allah commanded towards becomes an ebadah, as is in usool, in addition to the tasreeh of the Nabiy sallallahu alaihe wa sallam that dua is ebaadah. dua is ism jins, tahtahu afraad, mithli alistighaathah, walisti'aathah etc, kulluhaa min al'ebaadah. the brelvies have no objection to, rather yastahibboona sarfa jamee'e anwaa'e aldu'aa lighayrillahi ta'aalaa.
that is alshirk alakbar that the pagan Arabs were guilty of "wa maa na'buduhum illaa liyuqarribunaa ilallaahi zulfaa", in this regard they are akfur min mushrikee alarab, finna alaraba innamaa da'aw ma'budaatihim 'endarrakhaa, wa tarakooha 'enda alshadaaid "wa ethaa rakiboo filfulki da'awullaaha mukhliseena lahu aldeena falammaa najjaahum ilalbarri ethaahum yushrikoon", also in the hadeeth of 'amr ibn al'aas, the nabiy asked him "how many aalehah do you have?", he said "7, one in the sky, 6 in the earth". The Nabiy said to him, "which of them do you turn to when you are in need", he said "the one in the sky"... to the end of the hadeeth.
As for the brelvies, they never abandon duaa to their ma'boodaatihim, even during difficulties, wallahu a'lam.
man, the list goes on, subhanallah

when i was studying in Pakistan we (the students) would often cross paths with a group of brelvi students of misguidance on their way to school. Their being kuffaar was confirmed by our teacher who prohibited us from making salam with them and said, anyone who offered a salah behind them must perform that salah again as salah is not valid behind a kaafir.. that was coming from a deobandi.

Before you start trying to attack me, Im not a person of ghuloo, its just that I've come into contact with the brelvies face on on too many occasions to offer jahl as an excuse, there can be no uthr biljahl in matters of shirk and tawheed as it impossible for them to exist together whilst they are opposites of each other. We can hope that some of their juhhaal will be reckoned as Muslims by Allah in the aakhirah, as for ahkaam aldunyaa, hum kuffaarun mushrikeen.

fee amaanillah

no one need bother replying to nooruddeen regarding fiqh, nor take anything he has to say of any worth. Would anyone of you take their Islam from a Jew? or a Hindu?

Both of them are closer to us than he is, so take heed.

akhookum fillah

wassalam

[Nooruddeen]

QUOTE=Nooruddeen;219445]Yes Barailwis are much closer to Ahlus Sunnat in terms of aqeedah in comparison with the so called "hanaabilah".

There are of course major differences we have with them, but the celebration of mawlid un nabi is not that big a difference.

Therefore I have more respect for barailwis than ghair muqallids and mamatis.

Tahir ul Qadri is despised by even other barailwis. He is exposed for being a shia agent.

I just found this on a different thread

Nooruddeen is a pagan mushrik, his bigotry now makes perfect sense to me.
[/QUOTE]

Wow you took my quotes completely out of context! But what else to expect?

I said barelwis are more closer to us (diubandis) in terms of aqeeda with regard to the issue of Nabi Akram Sal Allahu alaihi wa salam being alive in his grave. Just like jews are closer to our aqeeda in rejecting the trinity as compared to christians, despite the fact that they are kafiroon.

But of course I regard the barelwi as kafir just like the jew, in fact even worse. I would never give them salam either or pray behind them or eat their meat.

The mamatis who deny belief in the prophet being alive in the grave are a deviant sect that is hijacking the name of Diuband.

[Nooruddeen]

"and as for the beginning time of Asr Salah, the mathhab of al-'itrah (ahlul bayt) and the majority is that it is when the shadow of an object becomes the like there of, as was mentioned previously under the hadeeth of jibreel; whilst alshaafe'i said the time begins as soon as there is an increase in the length of the shadow past that. Yet Abu Haneefah said "mithlayn" -twice the length of an object- and this is "faasid" - corrupt - the authentic ahaadeeth refute it".

Note that alshawkaane mentioned no one else having the same opinion as Abu Haneefah, like ibnu almunthir before him.

alshawkaane goes on to say page 336 after mentioning Hadeeth 430 from raafi' ibn khudayj who said:

"we used to pray the Asr Salah with the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wa sallam, then slaughter a camel, then divide it into 10 parts, then cook it and eat its well-cooked meat before the sun would go down"

narrated by albukhaari 2485 and Muslim 625, and ahmad 16838.

You obviously didn't read what I pasted from a translation of a booklet by contemporary hanafi scholar.

Read about the hadeeth of jibreel leading the Messenger in more detail. The exact same hadeeth mentions jibreel even led him in prayer for Asr at MITHLAYN!!!

Secondly, the second hadeeth I quoted of you, tell me, IS IT QATI ATH THABOOT? Please be honest.

[Harris Hammam]

Secondly, the second hadeeth I quoted of you, tell me, IS IT QATI ATH THABOOT? Please be honest.

Are you the same guy who once said:

I did answer your question. The matn is not qati ad dalalah but the ma'ana is.

And with that, I rest my case.

HH. Out