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Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

This is a discussion on Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly? within the Da'wah and Methodology forums, part of the Main Topics category; As salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh. I know somebody about my age (she was born a muslim, it seems ...

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    Anti-Free mixing umm hafsa's Avatar
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    Exclamation Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    As salaam alaykum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh.

    I know somebody about my age (she was born a muslim, it seems into a hard-core beralvi Pakistani family), became very distant from her deen. She practically has or is on the verge of leaving the deen. As sad as it may sound, she was unable to tell much differences between Pakistani Culture and the true Islam.

    She ended up being in a relationship with an atheist guy. He of course is very
    anti-islam because of his findings about Islam from the internet. Once you begin to learn about islam through the media, we know where that leads to.

    Anyway, I have no idea how but allah has opened up this girls heart a little bit, given her the desire to want to learn a bit more about the deen. She has told her B.f that they cannot be together/marry until he becomes a muslim. He is serious in marrying her because he says that he loves her and of course she loves him too (haraam type of love of course -may allah make it halaal type soon!).Anyway, I have alhumdulilah managed to clear up many of her doubts (placed by him/whispers from the shaytaan) in her mind. She is very polite, sensible and I ask allah to help her.

    The first thing I asked her was 'Do you believe in Allah as the creater', alhumdulilah whilst everything
    else was messed up (a lot of it is to do with the lack of proper teachings from beravli family), the basics of tawheed stayed in her miraculously. Alhumdulilah, she believes in allah, tawheed she now feels much better (recently prayed a salah) and inshallah we can hope she'll try to remain a muslim/return back to the deen.

    The current situation: he has promised her to look into islam open mindedly just for her sake...I am desperate to get him to see the haqq and accept islam (not because we believe in it but simply because it makes perfect sense). Also, I know if he does not then the situation for my girl-friend will take the worse turn. She will marry him in his current state where he is not accepting tawheed and indulged in other evils like drinks, etc

    The girl and the guy have known eachother for most of their lives, much more than a decade so it really is not one of those few weeks lasting type of crushes!

    He is bringing up the usual arguments a lot of the time... nothing we have not heard before. I am really trying to not be judgemental since he is googling and ending up on the anti-islamic websites it seems. Of course her family has put him off islam too due to their emotions and shock of what they saw.I am having to respond to a lot these days and it is taking me literally hours. If they pose a question or reservation, I try to collect the sources and write my own response based on them, in an easy manner without any arabic or deenie terminology - responding that way rather than forwarding them to an article or lengthy texts. I find that this is far more effective and they pay attention to this.


    Can some of you insha allah help me out, if in the next few days if I forward to you their questions/ grievances/ reservations about islam here and you could type up a reply which I can forward to them? Something short, to the point and not lengthly. Even if put in bullets..There are some topics on which I can reply pretty quickly because my knowledge is better like 'women in islam' but then he brings up issues in areas I am not too well versed like Prophet (may the peace and blessing of allah be upon him) copying the Quran from Jesus bible, things like Arab idols, Prophet making up the Quran, Prophet simply being a military man and Islam spreading through the sword etc etc.

    I know the answers but I am not the best person to explain these I guess.This is an opportunity through which all of us could get some hasaanat inshallah. I don't want to ignore them simply because I don't have the knowledge to address some of their issues well.

    I may ask them to join the forum sometime in the near future. They may already be reading these posts which of course we dont mind since we are not hiding anything.

    Please keep the best ikhlaaq and show as much sabr and forgiveness as you can (if something pinches you).


    We ask allah to guide us all.
    Please let us not be judgemental.
    Jazakallah khayr.
    Last edited by umm hafsa; 18th April 2012 at 09:02 PM.
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    Anti-Free mixing umm hafsa's Avatar
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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    Bismillah, let us begin insha allah.
    Here are some general statements I am pasting below which we need to address insha allah. Some are in a question-like form whilst others are just some comments/ concerns. Please keep the responses as less descriptive as possible.

    1) 'Give me some reasons as to why the theory of evolution does not work scientifically. I believe that theory explains perfectly how we have come about..point to me the problems.'

    2) Mohammad was a man who of course existed, Islam came after Christianity. Quran contains the same/very similar stories to the Bible. Mohammad heard and re-told them simply which is why the stories are so similar


    3) Many people have miracles today. Magic exists and using magic so much can be done so why should I believe that Jesuss so called miracles or Mohammads were from God? Both were simply men trying to gain following
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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    Al-Salamu `Alaykum Wa Rahmatu 'Llahi Wa BarakaTuhu,

    1) 'Give me some reasons as to why the theory of evolution does not work scientifically. I believe that theory explains perfectly how we have come about..point to me the problems.'
    A person can either be sincere in searching the truth, or insincere. Whereas this atheist must have gone through hundreds of pages of 'evidence' supporting evolution, I doubt he's spent nearly a hundredth of that time searching the opposite argument. Also, due to his narrow understanding of the religion of Islam, he doesn't realize exactly how Islam views evolution. For example, Islam doesn't have a problem with creating antibiotics for bacteria that evolve and become resistant. But it does have a problem with saying than man came from fish. Does this atheist know why, the whole of the issues surrounding the religion, as well as evolution in and of itself? I think he should invest more time in educating himself.

    Below are some links which deal with this exact question :

    Science Islam - Evolution Creation or BOTH?
    What does Islam say about the evolution theory? - Abdur-Raheem Green - YouTube
    Evolution in Islam - YouTube

    2) Mohammad was a man who of course existed, Islam came after Christianity. Quran contains the same/very similar stories to the Bible. Mohammad heard and re-told them simply which is why the stories are so similar
    This is a logical fallacy. People, in order to win arguments, create logical fallacies which cannot be rationally argued against. In this case, it's an assumption which forms the premise of the argument. That since x is true and y is true (they bring this to support their assumption later on) - hence z (the assumption) is also true and all of them must be connected! Wrong. Prove to me, from reliable sources, where he (s) learned those stories - and then prove to me that he re-told them as he 'heard' them. If you get this done, and you won't - then tell me one thing. All of the stories from Muhammad (s), on a plethora of topics is true (from what we know either scientifically, or historically) but the Bible contains numerous scientific, logical, and historical errors in the same exact version of the story. So how is it, that a Prophet (s) hears the lies, and conveys the truth only!? It is an impossibility, because statistically speaking there are hundreds of situations where this situation (the story in Islam being true and that is the other religions having a visible error) is true. So statistically speaking, the chances of this being a coincidence are virtually 0. Bringing up issues like the Prophet (s) was illiterate, and etc. is even more of a reality-check for these people who don't wish to find the truth, but rather seek argumentation.

    3) Many people have miracles today. Magic exists and using magic so much can be done so why should I believe that Jesuss so called miracles or Mohammads were from God? Both were simply men trying to gain following
    Lol! An atheist who believes in magic!? That's a first.

    In any case, the differentiation of belief in this is a matter of Eman, and this person is putting up a silly question as a buffer to try and contemplate the logic behind the truth that is Eman. What difference does it make where the magic comes from. If you believe in magic, then why can't you believe it comes from either Allah (swt), or by the Devils (whom Allah (swt) allows to do that 'magic'.)

    The issue comes in, well - how do you know that these two prophets (may the Peace and Blessing of Allah (swt) be upon both of them) did it from the blessing of Allah (swt), and not to 'seek a following' - while the other people (living today, and the magicians) are doing this as servitude to the Devils? Well simply put, all the other signs are a testament to their intentions, as well as the source for their 'miracles'. Look at all the proofs in the Qur'aan - is this something from the Devils, or the one who knows the ins and outs of the Heavens and the Earth? Once you believe this, then the answer is clear. Plus, the legacy of these two Prophets of Allah (swt) stand as proof of their truth. Muhammad (s) did not get a following through miracles, rather he suffered through it. He got a following through the struggle he faced - and he used 'miracles' (what Allah (swt) did out of His mercy) only to strengthen the hearts of the Believers.

    I hope that answers these questions - the first one has a basis to it, the second one is looking for argument (hopefully it's quelled with the answer), and the third is partially a matter of faith and part of the question is not true (in that Muhammad (s) gained a following through miracles.)

    I suggest you forward those two people this text :

    Dawah Book: The Man in the red underpants by A.R. Green

    May Allah (swt) guide both of them, and forgive the sister for her wrongdoing and lead her away from this fitnah.

    ٰ ۚ ۖ ۚ
    ٰ ۚ ۚ ٰ

    Indeed, Allah has purchased from the believers their lives and their properties [in exchange] for that they will have Paradise. They fight in the cause of Allah , so they kill and are killed. [It is] a true promise [binding] upon Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. And who is truer to his covenant than Allah ? So rejoice in your transaction which you have contracted. And it is that which is the great attainment.

    (Surah at-Tawbah 111 - 111 )
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Si vis pacem, para bellum

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    Sis, have you explained to her the dangers and the "not so rosey" part of disobeying Allah? Carrot and Stick approach. Particularly if she is so set on marrying him despite him not being a muslim. May Allah open his heart to Islam. Even though alhamdulillah such cases are not so common today, I think in following generations living in the west they may well be. Its the scariest of all; your children leaving Islam.

    And this thread is a great idea I think.
    Al-Fudayl Ibn `Iyaad said: "Whoever finds discomfort in loneliness and comfort in people's company, his heart is not safe from Riyaa (insincerity)"

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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    For #2 ... this is a rather common accusation ... most of the stories about the prophets were revealed in Makkah, which was a strictly pagan environment ... the stories in the Qur'an are of great detail .... Muhammad (saaws) was illiterate and had no access to such stories so how would he have heard about them in such an environment? His companions always surrounded him .. wouldn't they have noticed that he was just copying stuff?

    The stories are not the same btw ... they differ quite a bit and the Qur'an corrects the mistakes the bible has made in relating these prophetic stories ... the Qur'an contains some other stories that are never mentioned in the bible there was no established church in the Makkah and the only source could've been the Jews in Medina but most of these stories were Revealed during the Makkan time period before the Hijrah to Medina

    The pagans actually claimed that he was teaching them stories of the ancients, but this accusation is answered by Allah (swt) in the Qur'an

    And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted. Nay, here are Signs self-evident in the hearts of those endowed with knowledge: and none but the unjust reject Our Signs. [Qur'an 28:48-49]

    In that day and age, to have such extensive knowledge of the prophetic stories (which includes the ones not found in the bible) you would have to have been able to at least read and have access to the original source.

    As for #3 you can read the greatest miracle of Islam itself today ... the Holy Qur'an


    Last edited by Ghazi al Mujahid; 18th April 2012 at 09:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    You can always answer their random- but not so new queries but I would recommend something different. Tell them to put their question(s) aside and take them through a journey.

    Take them straight to tawheed. Ask them if they believe in God. If yes, then ask them if they believe Muhammad is the last and final Messenger of God. If yes, then invite them to Islam and tell them about Jannah and Naar. I wrote a similar answer elsewhere so I'll just copy and paste it here:

    If she believes that there is a Creator skip the first step. If not, then make sure to go through step 1.


    1. Start off by giving her examples of common sense. Give her logical scenarios, for example: "If I was walking through a desert and found a watch in the midst of sand, would you believe me if I said that this came together all on it's own?" Get her to agree with you. Then tell her: "the watch has very intricate detail, so the one who made it must be intellectual." Expand by giving other examples.
    Conclude to saying that anything can't come from nothing and also, order cannot spontaneously arise from chaos. There has to be a Creator.


    2. Tell her that the Creator cannot be the creation. The Creator must be eternal and Self-Sufficient. There cannot be more than one God otherwise there will be competition and that would also imply that God has a weakness. Remind her that through this whole journey, you're using logic and reason- not mere feelings. Keep telling her to use her logic.


    3. Next, ask her: Would the Creator create us for no reason? Wouldn't the Creator inform us about our purpose of existence? Shouldn't there be an answer to suffering in the world? If so, how would the Creator tell us this? The best way would be through books and messengers. Tell her that God has given us a Book and that is the Qur'an and the reason why she should believe that it is from God is because:


    - it has the correct concept of God (Surah Ikhlas)
    - it is internally & externally consistent
    - It contains Miracles (scientific, historical, linguistic, mathematical) [give a few examples. 2 will do as long as you know them well]


    Then tell her about our purpose:


    - To ONLY worship The Creator
    - Paradise & Hell


    4. Move on to Messengers. Tell her that there were other Prophets who came to give Glad Tiding's as well as Warnings. Then tell her that Muhammad was a Messenger. He can either be a liar, deluded, or truthful. Expand in this manner:

    => Liar: Muhammad was KNOWN as the truthful. He was offered to be king, offered more women and literally anything he wanted/desired just so that he stops saying that there is only ONE God. He refused all of this and went through hardships. You can also mention here about Surah 'Abasa. Tell her that Muhammad's son died and right at that point in time, there was an eclipse. People immediately thought that this was a sign of his prophethood. If he was a liar and wanted power- he would've just said yes. However, he said no, this is a sign from Allah and an eclipse does not happen because someone dies.

    => Deluded: He was a great man, very compassionate and a great husband. If he was deluded then how come he was perfectly sane in every other sphere of his life? Moreover, his enemies would leave their belongings with him. If he was not sane then why would they leave their stuff with him?

    => Truthful: Because he was not a liar, nor deluded, then most certainly he has to be truthful.

    Ask her if she understands your logic so far.

    5. Now she should believe that there is a Creator and that He has sent down the Qur'an as the last and final revelation and that Muhammad was really a Messenger. Tell her to declare what she believes now and take her through Shahadah.
    Last edited by ; 18th April 2012 at 10:02 PM.




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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    Quote Originally Posted by umm hafsa View Post
    Bismillah, let us begin insha allah.
    Here are some general statements I am pasting below which we need to address insha allah. Some are in a question-like form whilst others are just some comments/ concerns. Please keep the responses as less descriptive as possible.

    1) 'Give me some reasons as to why the theory of evolution does not work scientifically. I believe that theory explains perfectly how we have come about..point to me the problems.'

    2) Mohammad was a man who of course existed, Islam came after Christianity. Quran contains the same/very similar stories to the Bible. Mohammad heard and re-told them simply which is why the stories are so similar


    3) Many people have miracles today. Magic exists and using magic so much can be done so why should I believe that Jesuss so called miracles or Mohammads were from God? Both were simply men trying to gain following
    answer 1: there is nothing in the fossil record to suggest that anatomically modern man descended from apes there is no intermediate or transitional form between the most upright ape and anatomically modern man. apes have existed for millions of years in that time many species have come and gone. it does not mean we are related to them..

    answer 2: the Quran sometimes deals with the same subject matter as the Bible but relates it differently in some key areas this is better illustrated by comparison I have found this website that might help but please proof read it first before you pass that along.

    answer 3: Sorcery is learnt and is practiced through incantations, spells, rituals and potions etc etc it can be taught while Miracles occur by Allah's leave and cannot be taught...
    Last edited by gag order; 18th April 2012 at 10:21 PM.



    Zionism is to the Palestinian what Nazism was to the Jews

    *lifting the gag on legitimate debate*

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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    2) Mohammad was a man who of course existed, Islam came after Christianity. Quran contains the same/very similar stories to the Bible. Mohammad heard and re-told them simply which is why the stories are so similar



    2) To add to the above answers, I believe he should know that the Taurat/Injeel/Quran (aka Torah/Bible/Koran) are from the same source, of course in their original and pure form (except the Quran which has always been
    untampered)

    If you were given three guide booklets on Yamaha's R1,R6,R125... What are they going to be talking about, is one going to be about digestion system of frogs or what. No they are for the same purpose, to guide you and help you on their bikes. As for Muhammad s.a.w just hearing and copying, how can that possibly be true. Why can I nor anyone on this earth just hear Quran then and make up our own version.

    Quran - 2:23
    And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.



    So, I would give him a background on the books & origin, and where they stand as of now and what happened to them.. & etc.. He may not believe, but if he(or anyone out there) isn't willing to then take this challenge from Allah ta'ala, then I then believe he is not a sincere human being. And he would probably need to get rid of and cleanse some more hatred in his heart.


    TL;DR Version: Muhammad s.a.w could not have heard and copied stories because it is possible to recreate/mimic/copy creations designed by human intelligence, but since this Quran is not a creation and is the very word(knowledge) of Allah ta ala it is literally impossible to design another exactly like it. If believed otherwise, you have been challenged to produce a minimum of at least one chapter of its like.

    but I should follow up with the next ayah of warning..

    Quran - 2:24
    But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.










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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    As for the others... both #1 & #3 is a bit ridiculous in my opinion. First asking scientific evidence, I mean what does he want you to do exactly, the fact that its just a theory is a problem itself. And the third question, it makes absolutely 0 sense in my opinion. So I think its better left for the other forum goers, I have to many brain farts just thinking about a question like that.

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    Default Re: Another girl- boy situation. Could you help me next few days by checking this thread regularly?

    We also need to remember that the end of the day, guidance and misguidance is in the hands of Allah azza wajal. So we can answer all his questions but his heart could still be sealed and he will not be satisfied.

    You need to concentrate more on the sister IMO ... She needs to be strong enough to accept the outcome and not be misled by the traps of the shaytan.

    She also needs to be careful 'cos there are many cases of men/women falsely reverting to Islam just for the sake of 'marriage' then you see them going back to their old ways.

    may Allah guide her and all of us.

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