Refuting Aboo Baseer ?

[anam]

Assalamu Alaaykum

I was wondering if anyone did see the attempt to undermine Abo Baseer in his work on tawgheet and takfirr which was translated and can be found on salafi manhaj...what do the people think of it ? was there any rebuttals? who is misguided in this issue?

[Abu Hafsa]

It is based upon some arabic text by a shaykh Abu Noor Ibn Hasan, with their (salafi Manhaj) own added footnotes. Abu Basir was asked about it (arabic version) after it being rendered into english, he said its not worth replying to as it has no real ilmi basis, just the usual distortions attacks labels etc etc so not worth the time of day. Salafi Manhaj also have particular documents regarding abu qatdah and abdullah al faisal like this.

[anam]

May Allaah reward you brother,

thanks for the reply, actually it's not hard to see the clear hatred which comes from salafimanhaj translators...and this adds to the reasons of learning arabic and it's importance when seeking knowledge, it would be better if they practised jihad an nafs, then correct and advise with love for their brother and the muslims at large instead of throwing blatent lies and abuse...this is not the way an adult behaves let alone a Muslim.


so i ask to see the response mainly and not to find arguments,

to judge by other than Allaah revealed [swt] could be a minor kufr if he declares this to be wrong also it could be major kufr so there is a lot of debates concerning the rulers that rule today.. but my question is can one still be Muslim while taking into consideration his replacing a law of shaariah with man made law, legislating without divine permit and also arbitrating judgments from other than the shariah.....is their preventions involved or ignorance here?

[Abu Hafsa]

but my question is can one still be Muslim while taking into consideration his replacing a law of shaariah with man made law, legislating without divine permit and also arbitrating judgments from other than the shariah.....is their preventions involved or ignorance here?

I believe the brother already commented upon this issue, i paste it below and can be found here.

That is what they (the Madhaakhilah) say about everyone, the only person they have not said that about is Iblees, the reason they say this is because they want to defend the Tawagheet. And this is what we say to them: Do you expect that those leaders are so ignorant and that they do not know the truth and we need to put evidence towards them? Those leaders they know the truth more then the people who putting the evidence against them. Their Kuffr is because of their arrogance and how many Shaykh’s have attempted to put Hujjah against them and they have killed them? Can we say that those scholars are in an environment and they are ignorant people? obviously not. They know the truth more then us, and they deliberately choose not to rule by the Shariah of Allah (swt) but they dismantle it and the only reason is that they only have one mission to fight Islam and prevent it from coming into power, any leader who attempts to break away from this mission they break him away and get someone else. When you establish Hujjah against someone it has to be against someone that has the following attributes, First is that the person you put Hujjah against he has fallen into a mistake and is not able to get out unless you tell him and explain to him his mistake, someone may ask why have you put this inability to get out of this as a condition? because inability to do something takes the Takleef (responsibility) away from you, responsibility is related to your carrying out these obligations, as for the person who has not fallen into a mistake and he deliberately tries to do these actions, then he does not have excuse of ignorance and towards that person you cannot say ‘why do you not establish evidence against him’ he has already rejected it, are you asking me to put evidence against him when already in his reach is that evidence so there is no need to establish Hujjah against these leaders, that is why the Ulema have talked about a situation of person who lives in jungle, those are people who you establish evidence against, not these type of peoples, and Allah (swt) knows best.

[anam]

JZK brother...

I now want to find out the opinions on going to vote in an election for kufr under pretext of 'benefit and harm'...i am not mocking benefit and harm i just want to know the solid truth as it's something i have a natrual feeling about as i did about the previous question in that this is wrong ,, obviously im no scholor but what i hear from them does confuse ..

so here's a article i saw on the site refering to the muslim's in the west

http://www.as-sahwah.com/viewarticle...rticleID=1150&

i can understand if you are picking someone to run the affairs of a community..i.e small jobs and responsabilities but when the party is trying to take part in tawheed robobiyah it should worry any sincere muslim in that he seek their judgment when we have Allaah's [swt] infront of us.

[Abuz Zubair]

search the forums for democracy and voting...