Results 1 to 9 of 9

Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

This is a discussion on Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter? within the Global Affairs forums, part of the Main Topics category; Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter? An article by Arthur Koestler many years ago speculated that ...

  1. #1

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    146

    Wink Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    An article by Arthur Koestler many years ago speculated that Ashkenazy Jews are descended from the Khazars, a Central Asian kingdom that converted to Judaism and eventually vanished. This claim has been used by anti-Zionists to argue that the Jews are not a nation, and that Ashkenazy Jews have no rights to Israel. The best evidence indicates that Jews dispersed throughout Europe from Rome. There were Jewish communities in France in the dark ages evidently. Other Ashkenazy Jews are descended from Spanish (Sephardic) Jews who were forced to leave Spain in 1492. Genetic evidence indicates that European Jews are probably closer to Palestinian and Syrian Arabs than to central Asians who are partly descended from the Khazars; see articles here and here for example. In any case, the claims of a people to nationhood are almost never based on genetics or "race." Nobody claims that all the French are descended from ancient Gauls, or that all the British are descended from the Celts and Picts. When Americans talk about "'our' forefathers," the 'our' doesn't usually exclude the generations of immigrants who came after the Mayflower settlers. Today's Palestinians are not all descended from ancient Canaanites and Philistines. Some are converted Jews. Some are descended from Arab families who arrived with various conquerors. Whatever the merits of the genetic arguments, claims that anyone has no right to a country because they are not racially "pure" are racist claims, and identify the people making those claims as racists.

  2. #2
    Senior Member Logic lover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,281

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Where are the 'lost tribes' if we are to believe that the 'European' Jews are indeed the ethnic Jews? Does it matter where they are from? Not entirely. We judge them on their actions.
    Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions (Quran 4:82)

    'Ibn Taymiyyah Against the Logicians' p. 114:
    'What truth there lies in logic can be known without the logicians'

  3. #3
    Senior Member ibn 'abd al-jabbaar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    2,609

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Whatever the merits of the genetic arguments, claims that anyone has no right to a country because they are not racially "pure" are racist claims, and identify the people making those claims as racists.


    More double standards. So why don't you protest against Israel for evicting people (i.e. Arabs) from their rightful and historical homes because they don't belong to the correct race (Jewish)?

    You didn't answer my question ealier on Zionist apartheid and racism either. Let's hope you answer this one.
    قد قيل للشيخ عبد القادر الجيلي قدس الله روحه هل كان لله ولي على غير اعتقاد أحمد بن حنبل فقال لا كان ولا يكون (درء التعارض 5/5)و

  4. #4

    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Posts
    146

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Logic lover View Post
    Where are the 'lost tribes' if we are to believe that the 'European' Jews are indeed the ethnic Jews? Does it matter where they are from? Not entirely.

    There are generally three different branches of Jewish people, the Ashkenazim or central European Jews, the Mizrahim or Middle Eastern Jews and the Sephardim or Spanish Jews. There are some other smaller groups, but those are the largest.

    DNA evidence proves that almost all of these people can be traced back to having a common ancestry within a Middle Eastern population, primarily in Israel. Jews who migrated away from the Middle East were able to maintain discernible Jewish traits because there was very seldom intermarriage with non-Jewish communities.

    So, it is definitely possible for a person to be ethnically Jewish and "look Jewish", but not necessarily be religiously Jewish...

    We judge them on their actions.
    The world is the way it cause of our contributions to it not in spite of it!

  5. #5
    Senior Member Logic lover's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    3,281

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    That does not answer the question as to where the 'ten lost tribes' are.
    Do they not then consider the Quran carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradictions (Quran 4:82)

    'Ibn Taymiyyah Against the Logicians' p. 114:
    'What truth there lies in logic can be known without the logicians'

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    866

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by My_Lady View Post
    There are generally three different branches of Jewish people, the Ashkenazim or central European Jews, the Mizrahim or Middle Eastern Jews and the Sephardim or Spanish Jews. There are some other smaller groups, but those are the largest.

    DNA evidence proves that almost all of these people can be traced back to having a common ancestry within a Middle Eastern population, primarily in Israel. Jews who migrated away from the Middle East were able to maintain discernible Jewish traits because there was very seldom intermarriage with non-Jewish communities.[/SIZE][/FONT]

    So, it is definitely possible for a person to be ethnically Jewish and "look Jewish", but not necessarily be religiously Jewish...
    Now this is what i like to discuss about the jews and finish off their claims of being the chosen people. We need to use both religious and scientific findings in order to solve this problem, as religion and science are not opposing forces. Dna suggests that about 40% of the ashkenazi are from 4 women who were likely (not a solid fact) from levantine pool.

    If these 2 groups only worked together they will finally conclude that the present day jews are in fact the gog mentioned in all the scriptures. In the old testament chronicles 5, it is mentioned that gog is descended of rubin, who in turn was one of the sons of jacob and a son of israel. So gog and the rest of his relatives are really the israelites and magog were people who already lived in khazaria before gog arrived.

    This is how the dna came about. So the present day israeli jews are gog and magog

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Posts
    823

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    The ashkenazi jew is not to be confused with the biblical hebrew , although the biblical jew was known for his treachery and lies , the ashkenazi jew can only be described as a brutal , vicious , unproductive and uncreative thief . The ashkenazi jew is the bastardized product of a bastardized past , descended from the armpit of khazaria in 740CE , it is doubtful they are even semites .

  8. #8
    Junior Member 3abudi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Age
    29
    Posts
    178

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Quote Originally Posted by My_Lady View Post

    ...were able to maintain discernible Jewish traits .
    Attachment 3546

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    2,531

    Default Re: Are Ashkenazi Jews descended from Khazars and does it matter?

    Today's Jews are in fact descended from the Biblical Hebrews, and thus are the people that al-Qur'an ash-Sharif says are cursed. Anyone who accepts Koestler's claim that they are Khazars is an imbecile.

    Keep in mind that Arthur Koestler was a Zionist Jew himself. His reasons for claiming that the modern Jews were descended from the Khazars was so he could absolve them of their reputation as the enemies of Jesus Christ (alayhis salaam). Keep in mind that since the Christians believe that Christ was crucified, a traditional epithet for a Jew was "Christ-killer".

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Koestler argued that by proving Ashkenazi Jews to have no connection with the biblical Jews, European anti-Semitism would lose all basis.
    As for where the 10 lost tribes of Israel went, the question is irrelevant. They most likely assimilated into the local population of whatever places they went to and are no longer a distinct group.

    I hate when Muslims try to assimilate kaafir nonsense like this (and other conspiracy theories). The modern Jews being descended from the ancient Hebrews actually makes our case stronger than if they are descendants of the Khazars. Koestler's argument was only picked up by the secular Arab nationalists because their claim to Palestine is based on "who was there first". The Islamic claim is based on whom Allah (subhanu wa ta'ala) has favoured.

Similar Threads

  1. A Matter of Contemplation
    By Wmin_ISoc in forum Quranic Spirituality
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11th December 2009, 04:50 AM
  2. What Will Matter?
    By juwairiyah in forum Ethics and Spirituality
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 3rd January 2009, 07:02 AM
  3. Video The Secret Beyond Matter
    By ahmetsecer in forum Islam in General
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 23rd October 2008, 09:09 PM
  4. Transgress not in the matter of the sabbath
    By Expergefactionist in forum Global Affairs
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 20th October 2007, 12:57 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162 163 164 165 166 167 168 169 170 171 172 173 174 175 176 177 178 179 180 181 182 183 184 185 186 187 188 189 190 191 192 193 194 195 196 197 198 199 200 201 202 203 204 205 206 207 208 209 210 211 212 213 214 215 216 217 218 219 220 221 222 223 224 225 226 227 228 229 230 231 232 233 234 235 236 237 238 239 240 241 242 243 244 245 246 247 248 249 250 251 252 253 254 255 256 257 258 259 260 261 262 263 264 265 266 267