Hukm Bil-Taghut in the Salafi Kingdom

[Abu'l 'Eyse]

that ruling is just foul! Subhanullah!

[abu hafs]

Well, for one, Sh. Abdullah al-Sa'd is in and out of jail for his inkar of munkar, but it's not the sort of thing that would get press coverage.

Can you link what he said about any of the issues ?

[Sir Paindoo Pants]

Well, this ruling shows a serious problem in saudi society and that is people becoming wary of 'traditional' ulema (by traditional I mean the ulema associated with najdi da'wah). I wouldn't necessarily blame the senior ulema for it, but the culture of 'salafiism' that developed along with short-sighted political activism (the "sahwa"). I think the scholars or rather the du'aat failed to convey how shari'ah is eternally viable, and how in its essence it is a perfect system. Most saudis, living in a hypocritical society where you see one thing on the outside and it's a totally different thing on the inside, don't even take ulema seriously. I think this ruling was just in making- most of these guys are probably burnt out ex-activist salafi types (or even madkhalis). WAllahu a'alam.

Anyway fisq of saudi hukkam is nothing new, so nothing surprising.

[IbnShaykh]

Well, for one, Sh. Abdullah al-Sa'd is in and out of jail for his inkar of munkar, but it's not the sort of thing that would get press coverage.

Any others? Who are those whose hands are tied?

[justabro]

Any others? Who are those whose hands are tied?

I don't remember names at the moment, but I remember seeing that Sh. Abdullah al-Sa'd and others had condemned a policy that any issues concerning media (print or TV) would be referred to a committee of some Ministry of Information or something like that rather than to the Shari'ah courts. They condemned this as hukm bil taghut. (The details are fuzzy in my memory so don't quote me on this, however, I know I saw it on the multaqa).

Sh. al-Barrak is an example that comes to mind. He not long ago declared a secularist journalist an apostate who should be executed. This caused quite an uproar. A student on the Multaqa mentioned that he read Sh. al-Barrak's fatwa to the Mufti, Abd al-Aziz Al al-Shaykh, and he agreed with his fatwa wholeheartedly. Although, I should say, I doubt that the Mufti would come out and make these types of statements, but Sh. al-Barrak has always been fairly independent. He also happens to consider Sh. Bin Baz to be his most important teacher. He would sometimes take Sh. Bin Baz's place in Dar al-Ifta' when Sh. Bin Baz would be away from Riyadh.

Even Sh. Bin Baz, though he tried to be diplomatic in his own ways, would speak out when he thought necessary. For example, many many years ago, before the oil had really started booming, he openly criticized King Abd al-Aziz's decision to bring in an American team for some sort of project for agricultural development and research. (This is mentioned in Sh. ibn Aqil's biography)

[abumuwahid]

The Taghut Kings of Saudi and their henchmen established the Majlis Al Shoura so ultimately they are responsible for any legislation that is passed.

Does anybody here have the correct ruling on this issue, in written form?

['Abd al-Kareem]

Well, this ruling shows a serious problem in saudi society and that is people becoming wary of 'traditional' ulema (by traditional I mean the ulema associated with najdi da'wah). I wouldn't necessarily blame the senior ulema for it, but the culture of 'salafiism' that developed along with short-sighted political activism (the "sahwa"). I think the scholars or rather the du'aat failed to convey how shari'ah is eternally viable, and how in its essence it is a perfect system. Most saudis, living in a hypocritical society where you see one thing on the outside and it's a totally different thing on the inside, don't even take ulema seriously.

So, what do you propose akhi?

This isn't a rhetorical question or a challenge. A genuine question...

[justabro]

Abiding by international agreements as well as Shariah has been a stated focus of the governmental Saudi Human Right Commission, which recently commemorated the 60th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

One such international agreement is the Convention on the Rights of the Child that the Kingdom voluntarily signed in 1996 that, among a list of other articles, prohibits putting to death criminals who committed their crimes when they were under the age of 18.

In November, the Shoura Council approved a law officially defining the age of adulthood as 18, a move aimed at putting the Kingdom in sync with the definition of the age of a minor in the eyes of the United Nations and a large number of countries. The Kingdom has committed to not putting to death minors under this definition.

Mueed Al-Hakami, the 16-year-old son of Hussein Al-Hakami, was beheaded on July 10, 2007, in the southern Saudi city of Jizan two years after he was arrested, charged and found guilty of sexually assaulting and killing a younger boy.

Hussein said he was prevented from being present during the police interrogation shortly after Mueed was arrested, and that he didn’t learn of his son’s beheading until a few days after the execution and burial. He claims that he doesn’t know where his son’s body is buried.

Hussein’s lawyer, Abdullah Al-Zmami, told Arab News in April that the judge in the case should have never passed this case beyond juvenile court. Hussein claims the judge passed the case on after asking only for physical proof that Mueed was acting as an adult: his pubic hair.

http://arabnews.com/?page=1&section=...15&m=12&y=2008

what filth

[Wild Wild West]

In November, the Shoura Council approved a law officially defining the age of adulthood

The thing is that there are Scholars on this council like Hatim Al-'Awni and Salih bin Humaid (who is in fact the chairman).

How on earth can they justify what they do?

[Sir Paindoo Pants]

The thing is that there are Scholars on this council like Hatim Al-'Awni and Salih bin Humaid (who is in fact the chairman).

How on earth can they justify what they do?

I think, in the original article it states that the chairman opposed the move.