Usama Hasan: The Archbishop of the Mosque of England?

[Daniel]

Abuz-Zubayr, what is the relationship between Usama Hasan and JIMAS, because I know that JIMAS changes manhaj with the weather. One day they are "jihadi", then extreme Murji'ah following people like Salim al-Hilali and Ali al-Halabi, then they became "Surori" and invited people like Ali al-Timimi and Jamal Zarabozo to their conferences, and more recently they became modernist and started promoting folks like Tariq Ramadan and Hamza Yusuf. Was Usama Hasan in on all of that?

[abu_ibrahim]

Abuz-Zubayr, what is the relationship between Usama Hasan and JIMAS

He was one of the invited speakers to this years JIMAS which just ended in August.

[NAveed]

Well actually its only a natural progression of the free-thinking minhaj that salafi da'wah encourages.

Thats why we see shaykh suhaib hasan sitting in modernist think-tanks , despite being a product of an ahlul hadeeth institution.

This emphasis on maslahah has destroyed many the secure boundaries of classical fiqh.
Sometimes I think hizb at tahreer was somewhat right to attack the concept of maslaha-though it is valid it is being abused by many in the west , to promote evils- like sami yusuf to promote his music, and others to promote views more palatable to the western government.Having said that maslaha is a valid concept- its just theres a lot of fuzzy thinking nowadays to appease the kuffar.

The problem with these guys is that they were ikhwani salafis and that modernist trend was always there
the desire to put aql above nass particularly in apologetics.
I was shocked at some of the things the ikhwanis preached in leicester back in the days-at the islamic foundation.
they were preaching the backwardness of the hijab years ago...

[Umm]

He was one of the invited speakers to this years JIMAS which just ended in August.

The history pre-dates that significantly.

As far back as when Usamah was a teen he would go to the JIMAS da'ees such as Abu Aliya etc for opinion, and they would tell him to ask his father Sheikh Suhaib.

[al-omari]

Well actually its only a natural progression of the free-thinking minhaj that salafi da'wah encourages.

You clearly don't know anything about the Salafi da'wah to accuse it of free-thinking.

Thats why we see shaykh suhaib hasan sitting in modernist think-tanks , despite being a product of an ahlul hadeeth institution.

Even if Suhayb Hasan sits in modernists think-tanks, the actions of one man do no represent all of the Salafis. Aren't there also "traditionals" who have modernist ideas.

This emphasis on maslahah has destroyed many the secure boundaries of classical fiqh.
Sometimes I think hizb at tahreer was somewhat right to attack the concept of maslaha-though it is valid it is being abused by many in the west , to promote evils- like sami yusuf to promote his music, and others to promote views more palatable to the western government.Having said that maslaha is a valid concept- its just theres a lot of fuzzy thinking nowadays to appease the kuffar

I agree with you here, but why only accuse Usama Hasan of this when there are "traditionals" who are just as guilty in this matter such as Gibril Haddad who says pacifism is from Islaam.

The problem with these guys is that they were ikhwani salafis and that modernist trend was always there
the desire to put aql above nass particularly in apologetics.
I was shocked at some of the things the ikhwanis preached in leicester back in the days-at the islamic foundation.
they were preaching the backwardness of the hijab years ago...

Which guys are you talking about? Can you give me examples of these apologetics? For example, while what Usama Hasan said recently was wrong, his article "Recapturing Islam from the Pacifists" was excellent and there is no evidence of aql over naql in it as you are insinuating. Why don't you distinguish between the Ikhwanis and the Salafis in this matter(naql over aql and vice versa). Many Salafis refuted Muhammad al-Ghazali and Yusuf Qaradawi of the Ikhwan in this matter. And while there is a element of modernism in the Ikhwan, it isn't fair to say they are all like this. I watched an interview with the leader of the Ikhwan in Sudan where he condemns Hasan at-Turabi for his modernist ideas. And what do you say of Sayyid Tantawi or Ali Jum'ah of Al-Azhar, two examples of "traditionals", who have given ridiculous fatawah in order to please the Egyptian government.

[Daniel]

Even if Suhayb Hasan sits in modernists think-tanks, the actions of one man do no represent all of the Salafis. Aren't there also "traditionals" who have modernist ideas.

Well, T. J. Winters (aka Abdal-Hakim Murad) is one that comes to mind. This darling of the "traditional Islam" movement is as modernist as they come. What is his excuse?

[Abu'l 'Eyse]

who is worse? tj winter or u. hasan?

hey naveed, don't forget, you still have irfan 'alawi calling the Tableeqis shayateen on news channels so i wouldn't get too excited!

man this modernist push makes me sick.

Islam is Islam, al-hamdulillah 'ala na'matul-Islam wa kafabiha na'ma

[al-omari]

hey naveed, don't forget, you still have irfan 'alawi calling the Tableeqis shayateen on news channels so i wouldn't get too excited!

Irfan 'Alawi and Stephen Schwartz were interviewed on CBN(the channel of the charlatan evangelist, Pat Robertson) inciting against Muslims. This is another example of their moral bankruptcy.

[y-mughal]

....I know that JIMAS changes manhaj with the weather. One day they are "jihadi",....

They were 'Jihadi'?

[tawheedullah]

who is worse? tj winter or u. hasan?
[/i]

TJ Winter is worse than anybody at everything. He is a pretentious imbecile who says things like:

"British Buddhism: who can abide this chinoiserie?"

What?

"Versailles is Augustinian; Hidcote is Pelagian."

Huh?

"Our Paradise shows that the Dionysian mysteries were proleptic."

This is by far the worst. Not only is it pedantic, but blasphemous. He's claiming that the Bacchanalian orgies of the ancient Greeks foreshadowed Jannah.