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whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

This is a discussion on whats all the fuss with having slave girls? within the Politics, Jihad and Current Affairs forums, part of the Main Topics category; Al salam alaikum wr wb Muslims but where does it say in the Quran or sunnah that u could do ...

  1. #11
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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    Al salam alaikum wr wb Muslims
    but where does it say in the Quran or sunnah that u could do that by force?
    55:13 - فبأي آلاء ربكما تكذبان

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    Senior Member Abu Yusuf 74's Avatar
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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic695 View Post
    From an outsiders perspective I'm often absolutely bewildered by the bizarre moral distortions that religion creates, to the extent that taking women as war booty, enslaving them and pinning them down whilst you have intercourse with them against their will is considered a bit over the top but no big deal, yet eating a ham sandwich every Monday is considered a serious moral deficiency. It seems extremely detached from the things that we should really be concerned about, such as let's say human suffering.
    I think the poster could have approached the subject with some more hikmah but anyways.

    Once you have abolished slavery you have essentially made people literally worthless, the rise of genocide and the liquidation of millions following the abolishment of slavery is no accident.

    Better that one child is sold then the whole family dies because of famine but that would be immoral wouldn't it.

    Is it more moral for a women to sleep with just one man than the whole town I think so and I could think of a few women that would be more moral as slaves.

    If there is more benefit in something than harm Allah has made it lawful for mankind Alhamdulillah and as for ham sandwiches then that is also lawful once thats all you have left to eat.

    And as for the women in all of this they will be just fine don't you worry yourself about that it will be love but not in the Hollywood sense of it.

    In psychology, Stockholm Syndrome is an apparently paradoxical psychological phenomenon in which hostages express empathy and have positive feelings towards their captors, sometimes to the point of defending them. These feelings are generally considered irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims, who essentially mistake a lack of abuse from their captors for an act of kindness.
    Mary McElroy was kidnapped and held for ransom in 1933 and released by her captors unharmed. When three of her four captors were apprehended and given maximum sentences (including one death sentence), McElroy defended them. According to reports, she suffered from feelings of guilt concerning the case which compromised her mental and physical health. She took her own life in 1940.
    On August 23rd, 1973 two machine-gun carrying criminals entered a bank in Stockholm, Sweden. The two bank robbers held four hostages, three women and one man, for the next 131 hours. The hostages were strapped with dynamite and held in a bank vault until finally rescued on August 28th.

    After their rescue, the hostages exhibited a shocking attitude.. One woman later became engaged to one of the criminals and another developed a legal defense fund to aid in their criminal defense fees. Clearly, the hostages had “bonded” emotionally with their captors.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic695 View Post
    From an outsiders perspective I'm often absolutely bewildered by the bizarre moral distortions that religion creates, to the extent that taking women as war booty, enslaving them and pinning them down whilst you have intercourse with them against their will is considered a bit over the top but no big deal, yet eating a ham sandwich every Monday is considered a serious moral deficiency. It seems extremely detached from the things that we should really be concerned about, such as let's say human suffering.
    There is something wrong with your premises. You have no moral institution and don't even have a criteria that is constant and you somehow want to say that what we believe is wrong? There is a difference between the two, the first is being discussed as we speak so read and than after pass your judgement's. (no one has said no biggie) and you are making the eating of swine like its nothing. It's like cheating on a test and when your caught you tell your teacher "I just looked over this piece of paper and put the answers on a test whats the big deal" the big deal is you went against the rules. The rules are in degrees so comparing the two things that you did is a deceiving argument. Why didn't you compare what I compared of women being raped in Jails, in armies, as captives? That is okay, to rape a women but somehow it isn't okay to enslave women and children and give them the proper care and rules that you can only find with the Lord of Mercy? You don't find these rules of mercy among the pagans nor do you find it among the western secular people and you definitely don't find it among the distorted law of the Jews and Christians. Anyway what criteria do you even have to dictate what is and isn't evil and good. Only subjectivity, you can keep that. It is amazing that Allah has created this world in such a way that the objective can only come from him and not from the minds of people.



    Quote Originally Posted by AbdulMatin View Post
    in real terms, this issue does not occur today in the manner it did in the past,

    Islam came with rules to deal with the issues people faced at the time, and this was one of those issues - people would bring their families to the battlefield etc. and then there was the question of who was responsible for those left after their husbands etc. had been killed, or similar.

    As for those debating on the internet about such things, you probably will find they are not yet old enough to marry let alone anything else. if they were they would probably spend more time discussing real issues that they confront on a regular basis rather than this type of escapism.

    at the same time, this particular thread was more about discussing the moralistic position others take towards the Islamic viewpoint on such issues, and should be seen in that light.
    All ready married akhi. So are you saying that we should allow the false conception that raping your wife is allowed in the sharia? Although this has nothing to do with our times today you never know the Islamic Khilafa may arrive around the corner and the next day I or you may have a slave women. Next thing you know one person forces his slave to have sex with him and it breaks out because shes a loud mouth. What will the Muslims do when it is put on front page? You see this is a bit more probable because people these days are totally against the idea of raping or forcing anyone to have sex with no matter who it may be. Simple question, simple answer. Is it haram to force your slave girl or not? What have the fuqaha and ulema say and so forth and from the first part of my statement we shouldn't be so apologetic because people in multiple armies throughout history rape women and when we Muslims have slave women in our deen than it is all of a sudden a no no. We shouldn't be ashamed and we should use this as an argument.
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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    you know ive always wanted to know, do muslims get slave girls in jannah?

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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    @ AbuMatin

    'escapism' just remember not to say that word around your slaves you don't want them getting the wrong idea.

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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    Quote Originally Posted by Abu Yusuf 74 View Post
    I think the poster could have approached the subject with some more hikmah but anyways.

    Once you have abolished slavery you have essentially made people literally worthless, the rise of genocide and the liquidation of millions following the abolishment of slavery is no accident.

    Better that one child is sold then the whole family dies because of famine but that would be immoral wouldn't it.

    Is it more moral for a women to sleep with just one man than the whole town I think so and I could think of a few women that would be more moral as slaves.

    If there is more benefit in something than harm Allah has made it lawful for mankind Alhamdulillah and as for ham sandwiches then that is also lawful once thats all you have left to eat.

    And as for the women in all of this they will be just fine don't you worry yourself about that it will be love but not in the Hollywood sense of it.
    we all make blunders every now and than, subhan'Allah those quotes are gems.
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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    to call this "escapism" seems to be a label that is thrown because you two believe that some how i want to escape reality. I don't make the same claims against any of you however i will make the point that the two parts of my post was concerning something that I am generally confused about and at the same time we seem to be really apologetic when it comes to slave women this and that. Rather today is friday so i have more time to see the threads and ask questions and read. Plain and simple, if a kaffir comes and asks me "can a Muslim rape his slave, is that his right or what?" (don't be surprised in my time of dawah i've gotten millions of questions like this) than how do you want me to answer? I will be unapologetic however i need to give him an answer no? Until that time i'll be using Allahu Alim. There is beneficial and unbeneficial knowledge, I would understand if I asked "what was the food on the table that was descended upon Isa ibnu Maryam and his companions? was it chicken? rice?" but i didn't ask that so instead of saying "escapism" answer the question thank you and Jazak'Allah khairan. I benefited a lot from the previous thread discussed on muqatila and ghayr muqatilla.
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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    Brothers section is there for a reason,it has real purpose,please use it..

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    Default Re: whats all the fuss with having slave girls?

    uhh, this thread has got to be the worst thing that ever happened to islamic dawah in the UK

    perhaps getting an answer to this issue BEFORE your conversation is broadcst to the whole world is useful

    please use wisdom on these topics, how is this going to sound to a non muslim reading it? I doubt they will rush to take their shahada

    I have never in my whoe life heard from a muslim that you are allowed to force your wife to have sex with you, this is only something I have heard from islamaphobes. Please provide some evidence for this. It is a sin for your wife to not have sex with you but where is the proof you can force her?

    Mods please delete this thread before it ends up on Fox news

    Id propbabily say trying to arge the benefits of slavery is probabily about just as bad as justifying that you can rape your slave so I really would consider what you guys are posting here and the impact it could have. Islam has slowed down its conversion rates now as a direct result of the atheists picking up on these sorts of things and mass broadcasting them. Anything that sounds bad thats in Islam, has been made common knowledge in the non muslim household now, amd is getting heavily entrenched in their minds. When I came to islam i never heard of any of this stuff but I dread to think if i would have still come to islam if this had been drilled into my head before hand

    of course the reality is that my life has improved thousands of times over as a result of following the shariah, married with kids rather than contracting STD's, keeping my body pure from intoxicants, staying away form gambling, interest etc, the benefits are massive, but the emotional impact that issues like slavery, rape etc will over power the logical that islam will improve your life, and if even worse things are added into the mix that are not even actually from the shariah then this will only exhasberate things more. Please understand that these emotional "proofs" where things that sound shocking to western culture are presented to non muslims are probabily the biggest obstacle to teh muslim community, even though logically speaking a set of laws are arbitary and Allah could have told us to kill children (such as ibrahim with ismail" and we still would have to hear and obey, so logically it doesnt matter what the shariah says, but the emotional impact on the average brit if they read this thread would be huge

    if you can prove that these ruling cames from Allah then of course we hear and we obey but no proof that you can rape your wives and slave girls has yet been provided to please provide it ASAP or delete the thread
    Last edited by Abu Fatimah; 30th March 2012 at 06:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by abuhannah View Post
    Brothers section is there for a reason,it has real purpose,please use it..
    Agreed.

    To all those who are under the false impression that slavery no longer exists, the modern equivalent of
    slavery is forcing, defrauding or coercing people into labor or sexual exploitation. About 14,500 and 17,500 people – mostly women and children – are trafficked across national borders each year, and experts guess that there are 27
    million slaves worldwide.

    http://www.dosomething.org/tipsandto...an-trafficking

    So don't put your nose up at people of past times, because it still exists, not as openly but on a large enough scale. We just don't seem to realise what a big issue it is.
    Al-Fudayl Ibn `Iyaad said: "Whoever finds discomfort in loneliness and comfort in people's company, his heart is not safe from Riyaa (insincerity)"

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