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Ahlul hadeeth on 'not praying behind someone'

This is a discussion on Ahlul hadeeth on 'not praying behind someone' within the Islam in General forums, part of the Main Topics category; Assalamoa alaikum the reason for this thread is to show that the reason for not praying behind a hanafi 'alim ...

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    Default Ahlul hadeeth on 'not praying behind someone'

    Assalamoa alaikum

    the reason for this thread is to show that the reason for not praying behind a hanafi 'alim is not fiqhi isuues but their aqaid according to ahlul hadeeth of indo pak.

    Quote Originally Posted by Abuz Zubair View Post
    I know, and this is why I mentioned: 'their hands shouldn't be chopped off'. Those whom you call 'followers of Sunna', are also guilty of extremism, such as not praying behind someone who doesn't raise his hands.
    Imam Saheehul Aqeedah huna chahiyay by Badee' Uddin shah rashdi rahimahullah (Urdu/arabic)
    http://www.asliahlesunnet.com/files/...ahihaqidah.pdf

    The Necessity For the Imaam To Have Correct Aqeedah (english translation of above risalah)
    http://www.salafipublications.com/sp.../GRV120001.pdf

    Following is a summary of the beliefs, which have been explained in the treatise:

    1. The Hanafis consider it correct to perform taweel of the attributes of Allaah. Therefore it has been reported in their books that they regard the istiwaa upon the Throne to mean victory and conquering. And they perform taweel of the Hands of Allaah to mean His Power and the uluw of Allaah is interpreted as greatness.

    However all the Quraanic verses regarding the Attributes of Allaah are categorized under the mutashabihaat (unclear verses)1, upon which it is obligatory to have Imaan without asking how. This Imaan must be completely pure and free from every type of taweel, tashbeeh, [takyeef, tateel] etc. And Allaah has described this to be a sign of the people of
    Imaan and only those individuals who carry this belief were named as those who are firmly rooted in knowledge. However, those who perform taweel of the Names and Attributes of Allaah have been included amongst the people of deviation, whose hearts are confused, deviated and untrustworthy.
    Within the same discussion it has been clearly demonstrated that the major Hanafis hold the belief of wahdatul wajood. And the extent to which Allaah is insulted due to this belief is perhaps not found in any other (deviated) belief, Exalted is Allaah above that falsehood, with a great and lofty exaltation.

    2. The Hanafis do not believe the Quraan to be the Speech of Allaah, rather they believe it to be only an indication of His Speech. Such that in connection with this issue various statements have been presented from the book Sharh Aqaaid Nasfiyyah. The basis for this corrupt belief is the foundation for another corrupt belief, that is, since this Quraan is only the understanding of the real Quraan, then its understanding in any other language is also the Quraan. Hence they deem it permissible to pray in
    languages other than Arabic.

    3. The Hanafis say that it is permissible to perform tawassul by means of personalities. With regard to this issue the treatise includes some of the poems which were mentioned by the major Hanafis such as Allaamah Ashraf Ali Thaanavi and Haji Amdaadullaah, Muhajir Makki, which contain clear and manifest shirk.

    4. The Hanafis describe the Messenger of Allaah with eternal life. Such that they regard him to be alive in his blessed grave and not in the life of barzakh. However eternal life is only an attribute of Allaah and He has no partners in this attribute.

    5. With regards to issues of Imaan, the belief of the Hanafis is in clear contradiction to the book of Allaah and the Sunnah, due to the fact that they do not believe in the increasing and decreasing of the Imaan. However in many places in the Quraan, actions have been linked with the increase of the Imaan. Similarly, they do not accept actions to be a part of Imaan, rather according to the Hanafis Imaan is only affirmation upon the tongue and belief in the heart.
    Biddati Ke Piche Namaz Padne Ka Hikm - The Ruling on Praying behind Innovators by Shaikh Zubai 'Ali Zai (urdu/arabic many quotations are in arabic)

    http://quransunnah.com/modules.php?n...=getit&lid=132

    zubair 'ali has done his utmost to prove that rafu'l yadain and reciting fatiha behind imam is wajib. but even doesnt use these fiqhi issues for this specific purpose.
    ј

    We are monotheists, our way is to break traditions (that are against Islam). (Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib, the greatest urdu poet ever)

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    wa'alaikum as-salaam,

    Did the Ahlul-Hadeeth of the subcontinent pray behind Sh. Thanaullah Amritsari?

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    Now this is just nonsense, as much as i hate Hanafees, i would pray behind one based upon Muhammad Ibn Seereen who said pray and upon him is his bid'ah.

    not praying behind a mubtadee hanafee is just nonsense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasir View Post
    wa'alaikum as-salaam,

    Did the Ahlul-Hadeeth of the subcontinent pray behind Sh. Thanaullah Amritsari?
    LOL i know i have to answer your previous question. i didnt reply because my knowledge about usools of narrating ahadeeth have proven to be the knowledge of 'opinions' only. so its better to ask then say something. hope that you will wait for some more days. wassalam.
    ј

    We are monotheists, our way is to break traditions (that are against Islam). (Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib, the greatest urdu poet ever)

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    Quote Originally Posted by salafi brother View Post
    Now this is just nonsense, as much as i hate Hanafees, i would pray behind one based upon Muhammad Ibn Seereen who said pray and upon him is his bid'ah.

    not praying behind a mubtadee hanafee is just nonsense
    You hate Hanafis? That's insane.

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    You hate Hanafis? That's insane.
    its called extremism

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    Quote Originally Posted by salafi brother View Post
    Now this is just nonsense, as much as i hate Hanafees, i would pray behind one based upon Muhammad Ibn Seereen who said pray and upon him is his bid'ah.

    not praying behind a mubtadee hanafee is just nonsense
    from khalq af'al al'ibaad, imam bukhari said:



    meaning: i dont care whether i pray behind jahmi and rafdhi or i pray behind yahood and nasarah.

    in his saheeh he has brought a mu'allaq athar of hasan basri that pray behind a mubtadee and also the qaul of uthman ibn 'affan ra who also approved it.

    so its a matter to be investigated by an individual his/herself. i know many deobandi ulema who have very little knowledge about the sifati issues ( i dont want to say anything about breilvis no 'udhr in basic aqeedah) . so what should we do in that case? what if there is a possibility of missing a prayer altogether if one doesnt pray in jamah? this is a problem with many guys i know.

    my intention with this thread was to remove a misconception, as i said in the begining. and yes no need to hate them. deobandees are indeed very close to salafis. mostly , but ironically, the more ignorant and practicing a deobandi hanafi the better he is. and Allah knows best.


    Last edited by nobody; 24th August 2007 at 11:33 PM.
    ј

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    waalaikum as-salaam,
    Quote Originally Posted by ibn imam View Post
    hope that you will wait for some more days.
    I look forward to it inshaAllah, and appreciate you making the effort in order to find out more. JazakAllahu khairan.

    Who do you mean by the term, "Ahlul-Hadeeth"?
    Do you mean the scholars, the muhadditheen? Or people that unfortunately have never had the opportunity to open a book of hadeeth, let alone study, acquire, memorise, preserve and seek to understand the ahadeeth, yet fancy the title "Ahlul Hadeeth"? Is it possible to be from the Ahlul-Hadeeth without to have knowledge of the ahadeeth?
    4. The Hanafis describe the Messenger of Allaah with eternal life. Such that they regard him to be alive in his blessed grave and not in the life of barzakh. However eternal life is only an attribute of Allaah and He has no partners in this attribute.
    Can you post the reference for this statement please, and also explain which super-being it was uttered by such that as a result his statement has become representative of all the Ahnaaf?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasir View Post
    Who do you mean by the term, "Ahlul-Hadeeth"?
    for this thread, by ahlul hadeeth i mean ahle hadeeth 'ulema of indo pak. because we the laymen are mustafti and not muftis, so we cant pass such fatawa. LOL

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasir View Post
    Do you mean the scholars, the muhadditheen? Or people that unfortunately have never had the opportunity to open a book of hadeeth, let alone study, acquire, memorise, preserve and seek to understand the ahadeeth, yet fancy the title "Ahlul Hadeeth"? Is it possible to be from the Ahlul-Hadeeth without to have knowledge of the ahadeeth?
    well from the aqwal of 'ulema i have found only this according which people like us can be called ahlul hadeeth clearly.

    Ahlalhadith is not one party. On the contrary, you would find them every where, amongst them you will find the brave fighters, scholars, Hadith colecters, pious and righteous people and others who join the right and disjoin the wrong, etc it is not necessarily to find them gathered in one place as you may find them everywhere [ Sharh Muslim by Imam Nawawi 13/67]

    oh but i dont have such qualities, may Allah forgive me.

    the other one which can prove this to some extent is:

    Ahl Al-Hadith are the boarder guards of Muslim states. Abu Mansour Al-Baghdadi said: Those who guarded the boarders between Muslim states and Roman, Arab land, Al-Sham, Atherbijan, Africa, Yemen and Andalusia were following the Madhab of Ahl Al-Hadith. [Osool Al-Deen: 1/317 quoted from the history of Ahl Alhaith book by Al-Hashmi, page 59]

    so there has been a madhhab of ahl al hadeeth, which 'ulema and laymen have been following.

    from http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=134. you will some other qoutes there too.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yasir View Post
    Can you post the reference for this statement please, and also explain which super-being it was uttered by such that as a result his statement has become representative of all the Ahnaaf?
    it is there in the 2nd pdf file. the risalah was written about the ahnaf living in indo pak in recent times. otherwise, its useless. yiup there are mamatit deobandees but they are exceptional case.
    ј

    We are monotheists, our way is to break traditions (that are against Islam). (Mirza Asadullah Khan Ghalib, the greatest urdu poet ever)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Yasir View Post
    Who do you mean by the term, "Ahlul-Hadeeth"?
    Do you mean the scholars, the muhadditheen? Or people that unfortunately have never had the opportunity to open a book of hadeeth, let alone study, acquire, memorise, preserve and seek to understand the ahadeeth, yet fancy the title "Ahlul Hadeeth"? Is it possible to be from the Ahlul-Hadeeth without to have knowledge of the ahadeeth?
    http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=134
    Shaykh al-Islām, may Allāh have mercy on him, states, We do not mean by Ahl al-Hadīth, merely those who are devoted to hearing them, writing them, or narrating them. Rather we mean by them all of those who are most deserving of having memorized them, knowing them, and understanding them apparently and in reality, and following them privately and publicly. [Majmū` al-Fatāwā (4/95)]

    Ahl al-Hadīth are the Salaf from the (first) three generations and those who tread their path from the Khalaf. [Majmū` al-Fatāwā (6/355)]

    Can you post the reference for this statement please, and also explain which super-being it was uttered by such that as a result his statement has become representative of all the Ahnaaf?
    I beleive you can find it in Al-Mahnad by Khaleel Saharanpuri. As noted in another thread, the "Hanafies" mentioned in Sh Badi's article are Debandis. It is specific for Indo_pak deobandis.
    Brown Sahib

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