Omnipitus2006's obsession with Ibn Myatt

[omnipitus2006]

As Salaam Alaykum,

Thanks for the information. How many times have the Mujahideen sacrificed their own operations, so as to minimize civilian casualties? How many times have the Mujahideen, whether in Iraq or "Saudi" Arabia or elsewhere, warned the Muslims from gathering at places they intended to attack? Especially in Iraq, we always see civilians are killed in areas where police or other attack dogs of the regime congregate. Is "collateral damage" okay for the Americans but not the Mujahideen?

The only part of your post I disagreed with (and this is a minor disagreement) was your saying the Ghazwah of 9/11 was in retaliation for the cruise missile attack. According to analyses from Mujahideen (and Usamah bin Laden himself), the attack was intended to draw the US into a war which would drain its resources and ultimately lead to its defeat, just like what happened to the Soviet Union.

It was aimed against the economic and military power of the American Empire, as you stated. It was never intended to lead to many civilian deaths. But, and this is another thing the self-righteous always ignore, Usamah bin Laden issued a Declaration of War back on 23rd August 1998. His intentions to attack the US were made clear from the very beginning; his warnings to the American government and people was rejected and ignored each time.

Therefore, weighed on the scales of the laws of the Kuffar themselves, there was nothing wrong with the Ghazwah. Its easy for the hypocrites to ignore this, but at least Bin Laden warned the US of the impending attack. What did the US government do in Iraq? They certainly didn't declare war and they even tried to fool everyone into thinking they wanted a peaceful solution!

Likewise, the 19 Lions were youth who devoted nearly their entire lives for the attacks. They were training and looking forward to the day, which they realized would end in their martyrdom. They went right into the den of their enemy's military and financial centers, slapping the arrogant tyrant right in the face. They were certainly more courageous than those cowards who slaughter indiscriminately, from the skies.

If only the Muslims didn't accept the concepts of the Kuffar. If only the Muslims would realize their glorious history, rather than imitating the Kuffar and slandering the Mujahideen. There are Kafirs who admire how courageous Islam is in taking on tyranny and fighting the aggressors, many of whom actually embrace Islam. So where are the Muslims? Why won't they treasure this marvelous inheritance?

Was-Salaam,
Suhaib

There is a main problem being overlooked, targetting civilians is not what America does - either in Iraq or elsewhere. They've certainly never hijacked planes and used them as guided missiles in indiscrimate acts of mass slaughter. Even if you think (erroneously) America is responsible for half a million dead Iraqi children due to sanctions, then 9/11 isn't justified using Myatt's logic.

Its probably not a bad idea to take a look into David Myatt's past. Islam isn't the first ideology he's adhered to that's allowed him to justify killing innocent and defenseless civilians.

We can probably turn to half a dozen ideologies - including the three monotheistic religions from the ME - and find a way to use the texts to justify killing innocent people. Simply parse some quotes then ignore, deny, and if that doesn't work, get repetitive. Islam is hardly alone as having people use its material to justify primitive behaviour.

But you are right about one thing, we did ignore OBL's declarations of war, which originally came in 1996, BTW. And we continue to ignore the warnings from militant islamists. This we do at our peril, but it doesn't make AQ's terrorism more acceptable. His declarations of war are simply not specific enough to count as 'warnings' for something like 9/11 or even the African Embassy Bombings.

To us it takes far more courage (and character) to don a uniform and fight for a real nation than it does to dress up like a civilian and committ suicide in order to kill lots of innocent people. Just a different POV, I guess.

[ibnmyatt]

Its probably not a bad idea to take a look into David Myatt's past. Islam isn't the first ideology he's adhered

1) Islam is a Deen - not an ideology. Obviously you still cannot understand the difference.

2) My past is well known to people here. See the thread:

http://forums.islamicawakening.com/showthread.php?t=827 (From Neo-Nazi to Muslim)

May Allah (Subhanahu wa Ta'ala) protect us from all forms of Al-asabiyyah Al-Jahiliyyah, forgive us for our mistakes, and guide us to and keep us on the Right Path.

[jalwa]

To us it takes far more courage (and character) to don a uniform and fight for a real nation than it does to dress up like a civilian and committ suicide in order to kill lots of innocent people. Just a different POV, I guess.

So it takes "far more courage" to bomb a third world country from the safety of the sky with F-16, F-22 and Choppers against an enemy who barely have some AK-47 and some rockets ? Whoa, american propaganda must be really strong to lead one to believe thats courage. Thats weakness, not courage. Its like an hunter who goes into the jungle armed with M-16 and grenades, kill a crocodile with them and then say "see how brave i am"... While im not very fond with the suicide attacks that Mujaheeden uses (when targeting civilian) i can not oversee the fact that it takes REAL COURAGE and BRAVERY to do what Mohammed Atta and his brothers did. I may not agree with it, but thats REAL COURAGE. Hey, you can have real courage even when doing a BAD thing. You probably link COURAGE to the RIGHTNESS of an action. So if you probably think the US invasion in Iraq or Afghanistan are "GOOD", you link the "rightness" of the US pilots who bombs a 3rd world country from the safety of the sky with COURAGE. Thats not courage. Its flat out WEAKNESS.

and fight for a real nation

What would this "real nation" be ? The US ? its barely a "real nation", its a joke. A joke WITH NO HISTORY. Or culture of any significance, a thing that i guess makes americans very envy that the rest of the world have a millenary history and culture behind their countries. A country where the propaganda and the nationalistic patriottism is so strong and widespread that everything turns into an ideology (americanism) is barely a "real nation". A country where the people can be so easily led into doing something (even sacrifice their own life) by only using SLOGANS like "God Bless America" or "United We Stand" or any other ideological crap like that is barely a "real nation". Like i said before, the US became a JOKE right after WW2. Before that pretty much the whole world looked up to that nation because it was considered as the only "great nation" with no imperialistic aims. Bad guess, then the truth shown up, along with its arrogance and stupidity which is spreading around the world, like feminism, pop culture and other crap which is destroyng america from the INSIDE and its spreading like a cancer around the globe. And make no mistake, im no muslim, a non believer as other would call me, but i know this feeling about america is so widespread in Europe and other nations, that there are so many groups of atheists and christians who are giving their support in MONEY to the mujahedeen organizations fighting in Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine and Lebanon. And this support for the arabs brothers will continue, regardless of the fact we dont share the same religion or beliefs.

Bye

ps. the USA, will soon or later fall. Just like the Roman Empire have fallen, and any other great empire fallen in the past. Its a cycle of life. And to take this to a greater extent, when some millions of years from now the sun will stop burning and explode, it will destroy for the rest of eternity the world. Taking with it the "USA" and all the americanism ideology in which Bush and his disciples believes so much. The "american flag", in which many american dumbasses are so much in a religious-like love with, will be erased for the rest of eternity from the Universe. Theres no "God Who Bless America", if theres a God he blesses the whole world, not just a single country (whos been stealing stuff from third world countries for the last 50 years).

[Suhaib Jobst]

targetting civilians is not what America does - either in Iraq or elsewhere.

Oh yea. Try telling that to my father's relatives, non-Muslims who lived in Germany during the American-British bombardment during the early 1940's (I say that since Muslims you obviously won't listen to). It was indiscriminate and clearly against civilian targets. The US government just has a long record of doing such, from Germany and Japan to Afghanistan and Iraq. Try doing some historical research, and your ridiculous assertions will tumble to the floor like pearls from a necklace.

Even if you think (erroneously) America is responsible for half a million dead Iraqi children due to sanctions

Elsewhere on this forum, I read your stupid Zionist rhetoric against Holocaust Revisionists. But your denial of the American role in the Iraqi sanctions just proves you're nothing but a real Holocaust denier!

His declarations of war are simply not specific enough to count as 'warnings' for something like 9/11 or even the African Embassy Bombings.

Who issues declarations of war which tell their enemies exactly where to expect their attacks? No one, so get serious. But nothing Usamah bin Laden or the Mujahideen will do can ever satisfy you people; it doesn't matter, so long as he continues to inspire thousands of Muslims and seeks nothing but the pleasure of Allah (Subhanahu wa-Ta'ala). You have made plain that you're an enemy of Islam, as you yourself stated!

To us it takes far more courage (and character) to don a uniform and fight for a real nation than it does to dress up like a civilian and committ suicide in order to kill lots of innocent people. Just a different POV, I guess.

This is the classic example of hypocrisy! So its innocent people only if they're Americans? What about the innocent Muslims slaughtered throughout the world? Usamah bin Laden did nothing more than fight America on its own terms, playing them at their own game. Who started this conflict with their atrocities in Palestine and Iraq?

[omnipitus2006]

1) Islam is a Deen - not an ideology. Obviously you still cannot understand the difference.

There is absolutely no difference David. Stop trying to play with words. An ideology is the set of doctrines or beliefs which form the basis of a political, economic, religous, or social system. That is *exactly* what you are talking about.

2) My past is well known to people here. See the thread:

Do they know you've posted a lot of essays calling into doubt the veracity of your claims to be a muslim? Like the essay I found on your site written in 2004 that you quickly deleted once I pointed out that it was clear from the text that you ABSOLUTELY DO NOT view the world solely through the Quran and Sunnah?

Thanks for inviting me to this forum BTW. Considering the new anti terror legislation in the UK I'm looking forward to reading more of your material, and making sure the relevant authorities get an opportunity to read it as well.

Have a nice weekend. Try to get out lots. :-)

[Abu Faaris As-Sumalee]

"Thanks for inviting me to this forum BTW. Considering the new anti terror legislation in the UK I'm looking forward to reading more of your material, and making sure the relevant authorities get an opportunity to read it as well.

Have a nice weekend. Try to get out lots. :-)"

Akhi this would be rida, you dont do stuff like this because you hate somone or disagree with their opinion

[omnipitus2006]

"Thanks for inviting me to this forum BTW. Considering the new anti terror legislation in the UK I'm looking forward to reading more of your material, and making sure the relevant authorities get an opportunity to read it as well.

Have a nice weekend. Try to get out lots. :-)"

Akhi this would be rida, you dont do stuff like this because you hate somone or disagree with their opinion

Tell that to the jihadists who slaughter defenseless civilians. And their enablers, either physical or ideological.

[ibnmyatt]

There is absolutely no difference

Since you obviously have forgotten our debates on soc.religion.Islam about this matter, I shall refresh your memory - the difference is fundamental. One represents the Muslim way, of thinking, of being; the other represents the way of the kaffir, the way of Ignorance.

One manifests Tawheed; the other conceals Tawheed.

An ideology is ...

A Taghut, and an abstract term used by the kuffar to apprehend reality, which apprehension amounts to Ignorance and which apprehension they project onto our Deen to "interpret" it.

the set of doctrines or beliefs which form the basis of a political, economic, religious, or social system.

Islam is a Deen - an expression of Tawheed, of The Unity. All those things you mention are Taghut - ignorant divisions which conceal the nature of Tawheed.

That you and the kuffar in general cannot comprehend this is no surprise - for otherwise you might revert to Islam.

That you assume in your prejudice that "your" assumptions, your abstractions, your kaffir divisions, are "universal" and should and must be not only applied to our Deen but that we should accept such things, is one of the fundamental errors of Ignorance.

Do they know you've posted a lot of essays calling into doubt the veracity of your claims to be a muslim? Like the essay I found on your site written in 2004

Anyone interested can view our discussion about this on soc.religion.islam - it was not "my" site, and was written by me before my reversion. As I said to SO12 Scotland Yard Detectives following my arrest in 1418 (1998 CE) I do not accept and never have accepted the principle of copyright and people are free to distribute my writings, and have done so for many years, as some of them have been altered or changed in some ways without my permission. There are also some forgeries "out there", whether designed to discredit me or not, I do not know and do not care.

“You who believe, if a dishonourable person [fasiq] comes to you with any news, verify it lest you harm people unwittingly and afterwards regret what you have done.” (49:6 Interpretation of Meaning)


My public avowals of my Islam, of my loyalty to Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and His Messenger (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) since my reversion have been many - there have been several this year, including one published in "The Times".

"Be loyal and do your duty to Allah; fear Him and always speak with honour. He will direct you to do honourable deeds and will forgive your mis-deeds. And whosoever obeys Allah and His Messenger will achieve the greatest achievement of all." (33:70-71 Interpretation of Meaning)

Considering the new anti terror legislation in the UK I'm looking forward to reading more of your material, and making sure the relevant authorities get an opportunity to read it as well.

This seems to be somewhat abusing the courtesy we Muslims are extending to you here, you - an avowed pro-Zionist who has insulted our beloved Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

Only Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala knows what await us. Two quotes in reply -


"We do not fear prison, or execution, and nor are we frightened by torture or injury; rather, we say what the magicians said to Fir'awn: 'We will never choose you above the clear proofs that have come unto us, and above Him Who created us. So decree what you will decree, for you can only decree what touches the life of this world.' " (Sheikh Omar Abdur-Rahman's speech "Confronting the Apostate Ruler." The ayah is 20:72 )

"This is one of the ways in which Allah establishes His deen on the earth: by subjecting some of His servants to extreme hardships... The Deen of Allah is perfect, permanent and eternally protected. The Deen of Allah does not die with the death of one, the torture of a second, the imprisonment of a third or the extradition of a fourth. The Deen of Allah does not and will never die." Babar Ahmad: "Two Years in Captivity"

[omnipitus2006]

That you and the kuffar in general cannot comprehend this is no surprise - for otherwise you might revert to Islam.

LOL...

David, for me to accept these notions I'd already have to be a muslim. Once again you've gotten your logic backwards.

That you assume in your prejudice that "your" assumptions, your abstractions, your kaffir divisions, are "universal" and should and must be not only applied to our Deen but that we should accept such things, is one of the fundamental errors of Ignorance.

That you assume in your prejudice that "your" assumptions, your abstractions, your Islamic divisions and word games, are "truth" and must be accepted by non-muslism is one of the fundamental errors of Ignorance.

Of course none of this matters. Whether you call it an ideology or a deen is irrelevant to the matter at hand. In the past you've used the ideology (deen) of national socialism, now you're using the ideology (deen) of Islamism.

There is one constant, which extends further into your time spent as a satanist, and that is the desire to sow discord through violence. I just think its important that muslims who read your work are familiar with your past, because a pattern emerges which speaks far more truth than your esoteric parsings of Islamic texts.

Anyone interested can view our discussion about this on soc.religion.islam - it was not "my" site, and was written by me before my reversion.

Funny that you dated it "October , 2004", and even more strange that as soon as I brought it to your attention it was removed. That's a lot of control you apparently don't have. :-)



[QUOTE=ibnmyatt]As I said to SO12 Scotland Yard Detectives following my arrest in 1418 (1998 CE) I do not accept and never have accepted the principle of copyright and people are free to distribute my writings, and have done so for many years, as some of them have been altered or changed in some ways without my permission. There are also some forgeries "out there", whether designed to discredit me or not, I do not know and do not care. [/QOTE]

David, please, I know far too much about you and your duplicitous (to say the least) past to believe your word on this matter.

This seems to be somewhat abusing the courtesy we Muslims are extending to you here, you - an avowed pro-Zionist who has insulted our beloved Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam).

You extend me no courtesy David, and if you're concerned you have a few options. One of them is to re-think your ideology, another is to stop promoting terrorism in Britain, and another would be to work within your political system to change your domestic laws so you can promote terrorism, like you have been for several years now.

But by all means, keep it up. I find you to be a great resource for western softies who dont' think there's anything in Islamic teachings which could turn a muslim into a suicidal, mass murdering, automaton.

[Umm Ahmed]

But by all means, keep it up. I find you to be a great resource for western softies who dont' think there's anything in Islamic teachings which could turn a muslim into a suicidal, mass murdering, automaton.

No Muslim dropped a bomb on Hiroshima , no muslim made the nuclear bomb , if you would take the time to read some of Abu Zubairs comments on attacking innocents and others in Islam then you might not have made that outrageous comment. You dont need to look to far from your own front door for mass murderers.