Women's Salah

[MaRyAm]

Salamz

i have been taught that salah is different for women and men. but i was wondering if this is true. and if so, what are the differences?

jazk

[Abuz Zubair]

A woman should try to collect herself more while bowing and prostrating, i.e. be more concealing than men.

[1mran]

A woman should try to collect herself more while bowing and prostrating, i.e. be more concealing than men.

what is the evidence for this???

The Prophet (peace be upon him) said to "pray as you see me praying". and all hadith explaining the apparnt salah of women are weak, according to sheikh al-Albaani.

if there was a difference, surely the messenger of Allah would have spent atleast one time showing the women how to pray seperatly. yet there is not one authentic hadith about this.

remember, any innovation is misguidance. we should fear Allah and stick to the Quran and Sunnah

and Allah knows best

[Abuz Zubair]

jk for your advice, dear bro.

The woman is considered 'awrah and therefore her postures should be more concealing for her than men. It is narrated from the companions that they would order the women to collect themselves in prayer.

[1mran]

jk for your advice, dear bro.

The woman is considered 'awrah and therefore her postures should be more concealing for her than men. It is narrated from the companions that they would order the women to collect themselves in prayer.

but isnt that the point of the loose garments?

this is What Sheikh al-Albaani says in his book

"All that has been mentioned of the description of the Prophet's prayer (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) applies equally to men and women, for there is nothing in the Sunnah to necessitate the exception of women from any of these descriptions; in fact, the generality of his statement (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), "Pray as you have seen me praying", includes women.
This is the view of Ibraaheem an-Nakh'i, who said, "A woman's actions in the prayer are the same as a man's" - transmitted by Ibn Abi Shaibah (1/75/2), with a saheeh sanad from him.

Also, Bukhaari reported in at-Taareekh as-Sagheer (p. 95) with a saheeh sanad from Umm ad-Dardaa', "that she used to sit in her prayer just as a man sits, and she was a woman of understanding."

The hadeeth about the indimaam (tucking up) of a woman in prostration, and that she is in that regard not like a man, is mursal and not authentic. Abu Daawood transmitted it in al- Maraaseel on the authority of Yazeed ibn Abi Habeeb.

As for what Imaam Ahmad has reported, as in his son 'Abdullaah's Masaa'il, from Ibn 'Umar, that he used to instruct his wives to sit cross-legged in prayer, its sanad is not authentic, for it contains 'Abdullaah ibn 'Umar al-'Amri, who is a da'eef (weak) narrator. "

My knowledge is limited to this.

and Allah knows best

[Abuz Zubair]

( ( 43 ) المرأة كيف تكون في سجودها )

2777 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا أبو الأحوص عن أبي إسحاق عن الحارث عن علي قال إذا سجدت المرأة فلتحتفر ولتضم فخذيها
2778 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا أبو عبد الرحمن المقرئ عن سعيد بن أبي أيوب عن يزيد بن أبي حبيب عن بكير بن عبد الله بن الأشج عن بن عباس أنه سئل عن صلاة المرأة فقال تجتمع وتحتفر

2779 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا أبو الأحوص عن مغيرة عن إبراهيم قال إذا سجدت المرأة فلتضم فخذيها ولتضع بطنها عليهما
2780 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا جرير عن ليث عن مجاهد أنه كان يكره أن يضع الرجل بطنه على فخذيه إذا سجد كما تضع المرأة
2781 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا بن مبارك عن هشام عن الحسن قال المرأة تضم في السجود
2782 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن سفيان عن منصور عن إبراهيم قال إذا سجدت المرأة فلتلزق بطنها بفخذيها ولا ترفع عجيزتها ولا تجافي كما يجافي الرجل

( ( 44 ) في المرأة كيف تجلس في الصلاة )

2783 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا إسماعيل بن علية عن محمد بن إسحاق عن زرعة عن إبراهيم عن خالد بن اللجلاج قال كن النساء يؤمرن أن يتربعن إذا جلسن في الصلاة ولا يجلسن جلوس الرجل على أوراكهن يتقي ذلك على المرأة مخافة أن يكون منها الشيء
2784 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا أبو خالد عن محمد بن عجلان عن نافع ان صفية كانت تصلي وهي متربعة
2785 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن برد عن مكحول أن أم الدرداء كانت تجلس في الصلاة كجلسة الرجل
2786 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا عبد الوهاب الثقفي عن عبيد الله عن نافع قال تربع
2787 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا معتمر بن سليمان عن مسلم عن قتادة قال تجلس كما ترى أنه أيسر
2788 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا غندر عن شعبة عن منصور عن إبراهيم قال تقعد المرأة في الصلاة كما يقعد الرجل
2789 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا وكيع عن العمري عن نافع قال كن نساء بن عمر يتربعن في الصلاة
2790 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا غندر عن شعبة قال سألت حمادا عن قعود المرأة في الصلاة قال تقعد كيف شاءت
2791 حدثنا أبو بكر قال نا محمد بن بكر عن بن جريج قال قلت لعطاء تجلس المرأة في مثنا على شقها الأيسر قال نعم قلت هو أحب إليك من الأيمن قال نعم قال تجتمع جالسة ما استطاعت قلت تجلس جلوس الرجل في مثنا أو تخرج رجلها اليسرى من تحت اليتها قال لا يضرها أي ذلك جلست إذا اجتمعت
2792 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا وكيع عن سفيان عن منصور عن إبراهيم قال تجلس المرأة من جانب في الصلاة
2793 حدثنا أبو بكر قال حدثنا وكيع عن سفيان نا إسرائيل عن جابر عن عامر قال تجلس المرأة في الصلاة كما تيسر

This is all from Musannaf b. Abi Shayba. Point being that this is a widespread opinion and practise amongst the Salaf, and Imam Ahmad in particular is well known for strongly considering the fatawas of companions, and then that of the tabi'in to a much lesser degree.

[1mran]

but the thing is brother, when it comes to ibadah especially, its best to stick to the sunnah.

even if its recommended by some imams who follow the way of the Salaf, thats another issue.

but to say the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) asked women to prayer differently, is not true.

and if thats so, then shouldnt we follow his command?


Narrated Malik:

We came to the Prophet and stayed with him for twenty days and nights. We were all young and of about the same age. The Prophet was very kind and merciful. When he realized our longing for our families, he asked about our homes and the people there and we told him. Then he asked us to go back to our families and stay with them and teach them (the religion) and to order them to do good things. He also mentioned some other things which I have (remembered or) forgotten. The Prophet then added, "Pray as you have seen me praying and when it is the time for the prayer one of you should pronounce the Adhan and the oldest of you should lead the prayer.

[Sahih Bukhari , Volume 1, Book 11, Number 604]


"With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Qur'ân), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought." (An-Nahl 16:44)

“Indeed in the Messenger of Allâh (Muhammad SAW) you have a good example to follow for him who hopes in (the Meeting with) Allâh and the Last Day and remembers Allâh much.” (Al-Ahzab 33:21)



“Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Obey Allâh and the Messenger (Muhammad SAW)." But if they turn away, then Allâh does not like the disbelievers.” (Aali Imran 3:32)

and Allah knows Best

[Abuz Zubair]

It isn't as simple as we may think. Deducing laws in Islam is not as simple is finding or not finding a text correctly attributed to the Prophet - SallAllahu 'alaihi wa-sallam. There is an entire thought process and a ministry of law through which an issue must be processed before there being a legal ruling issued on it.

Some of the women companions who are reported to have prayed slightly differently didn't do so out of their own making. 'Pray as you have seen me praying' is a very general statement and there is no contradiction here. There is only exception to the rule.

Besides, a mujtahid should not force his opinion on another mujtahid or an 'aami... let alone an 'aami doing that. Difference of opinion exists as Allah's mercy, as Ibn Qudama says. It creates ease for people as Imam Ahmad says, and therefore we shouldn't try to eliminate this mercy and ease in our religion and learn to tolerate difference of opinion that are within the realm of legitimate differences.

[justabro]

Brother Imran, were not the Sahaba present when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) taught them how to pray. Is it conceivable that they were praying one way in the lifetime of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) and then started instructing the ladies of their house to start praying another way? Does it not indicate then that they must have been instructing their ladies to pray in that manner while the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) approved of it. Remember that the sunnah includes the tacit approvals of the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم).

In addition, the statement "Pray as you have seen me pray" is a general statement. You might be aware that in the usul al-fiqh, the scholars have explained general statements can have specific exceptions. From that, obviously , when the Prophet (صلى الله عليه وسلم) was reciting out loud, the Companions were listening silently, because the imam is different from the ma'mum. Likewise, there could have been some other exceptions. Also, for the women, when they pray their own jama'ah, does she not stand in the middle of the front row, unlike the male imam. This is also not based on a marfu hadith, but actions of Companions.

Again, mind you, he is not saying that the woman performs a totally different salah, but there can be certain differences due to the difference between men and women.

[1mran]

differences arent a mercy

"The differing amongst my Ummah is a mercy."

[No isnad exists for this hadith: al-Subki (d. 756) said, "It is not known to the scholars of Hadith, and I cannot find an isnad for it, whether sahih, da'if, or maudu'." It, along with the previous one, is often used to justify the following two extremes: (i) blind following of the views of men, with no reference to the Qur'an and Sunnah; (ii) conveniently following whichever scholar holds the easiest view, or that most agreeable to one's desires, again without reference to the fundamental sources. ]

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamen.../aape.html#G16

but i see what you are saying.

i wasnt giving my opinion, i was just conveying what i have learnt.

its just that brother, the Messenger of Allah many times showed the Sahabah how to pray. infact once he pray on the mimber just to show them:-


Narrated Abu Hazim:

Sahl bin Sa'd was asked about the (Prophet's) pulpit as to what thing it was made of? Sahl replied: "None remains alive amongst the people, who knows about it better than I. It was made of tamarisk (wood) of the forest. So and so, the slave of so and so prepared it for Allah's Apostle . When it was constructed and place (in the Mosque), Allah's Apostle stood on it facing the Qibla and said 'Allahu Akbar', and the people stood behind him (and led the people in prayer). He recited and bowed and the people bowed behind him. Then he raised his head and stepped back, got down and prostrated on the ground and then he again ascended the pulpit, recited, bowed, raised his head and stepped back, got down and prostrate on the ground. So, this is what I know about the pulpit."

Ahmad bin Hanbal said, "As the Prophet was at a higher level than the people, there is no harm according to the above-mentioned Hadith if the Imam is at a higher level than his followers during the prayers."

[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8, Number 374]


and it has been reported that he taught women individually:-


Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Some women requested the Prophet to fix a day for them as the men were taking all his time. On that he promised them one day for religious lessons and commandments. Once during such a lesson the Prophet said, "A woman whose three children die will be shielded by them from the Hell fire." On that a woman asked, "If only two die?" He replied, "Even two (will shield her from the Hell-fire)."

[Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 3, Number 101]


Yet it not reported from him (authentically) about one difference in salah between men and women?


and yet we even know the smallest of differences, even in justmaking Takbeer:-

Narrated Muhammad bin 'Amr bin 'Ata': “…. Abu Humaid As-Saidi said, "I remember the prayer of Allah's Apostle better than any one of you. I saw him raising both his hands up to the level of the shoulders on saying the Takbir; …” [Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 12, Number 791]



Malik b. Huwairith reported: “The Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) raised his hands apposite his ears at the time of reciting the takbir (i. e. at the time of beginning the prayer) …” [Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 0762]


You dont find this abit strange?...


and Allah knows best