Important Let Them Eat Sandwiches! - Wifehood & Motherhood: Not the Only Ways to Paradise

[Amélie]

What I said above was in order to highlight what I saw to be hypocritical, i.e. motherhood and wifehood is too demanding of a job for a woman to spend time on being anything else, yet, they have no issues with wasting so much time on the forum. Of course, only later we discovered that the person in question hadn't a clue what she's talking about because she is neither a mother nor a wife.

You have issues undertanding my posts. I dont need to be a mother or a wife just like you dont need to be a woman to understand.

[Amélie]

We should ignore him. I can't take him seriously anymore.

Btw, Why did he call us "jihadist"? is he working for Jarett Brachman?

[Ibn Jafar]

It wouldn't be unreasonable, especially considering this post, to think I am suggesting that women must be kept barefoot, pregnant, illiterate, and chained to the kitchen.

But this is NOT what I am suggesting. In a way I am 100% in agreement with AZ, I just do not like the words and phrases we are using to frame this discussion. "Confine", "active" etc.

I think that many of the dai'es who grew up in the West do not have a clear idea about the reality of gender. On the one hand we/you ARE influenced by feminism, though many may not know it, and on the other hand many righteous brothers have a Madonna like view of women.

When I hear them talk about topics like this and "misogyny", I assume it's because outside of their marriage and family they have NOT had much experience with women, and why the Sharia has the gender laws it does. This is an understandable result of being free from zina and being influenced by feminism.

But of course, being free from zina and not mixing with strange women is nothing but praiseworthy.

[Ibn Jafar]

...just like you dont need to be a woman to understand.

Funny no one mentioned that!

[Umm DJ-N]

We should ignore him. I can't take him seriously anymore.

Btw, Why did he call us "jihadist"? is he working for Jarett Brachman?

He claims I "abused" him, so I'd really just love to know how, it will be an interesting response no doubt.

Otherwise it is defamation of my character as far as I am concerned.

[Wild Wild West]

Even if Umm Raiyah feels - even if rightly so - that she was provoked, after feeling that her family members were insulted and with EF responding in a like manner - the comments that then followed by Umm Raiyah and those supporting her, particularly the brother, Allahu a'lam were much worse - calling a person bad mannered, arrogant, insecure, not humble, calling by nicknames which we know is prohibited, even referring to the name of a Sahabi is a derisory manner. We also all seem to have so much su' adh-dhann - that if a person does not reply immediately we assume the reasons for that i.e. a person is too arrogant to apologise and never will do so.

OK, all other matters aside, I feel that referring to the name of a sahabi in this manner is way beyond all boundaries, but I could not find it in the thread. Could you please point this out?

[Umm Lu'ay]

This thread has really derailed big time; it lost its purpose way back.

I think the important thing to remember is to give benefit to the other poster; and not presume things, and also to articulate your views in a way that does not involve putting others (or their viewpoints) down. Otherwise it is not a discussion thread anymore, it is just a fight.

No one disagrees with the fact that sisters need to have vision, whatever their role - as daughters, wives or whatever their situation may be. But you have to appreciate that people attach different meanings to different terms. And it is not for anyone to judge, or to put down others.

At the end of the day, we all have to try our best, whatever we do, and remember there is not only one path to Jannah - you cannot have such a narrow minded way of thinking there is one way of doing things for everyone. But as another poster mentioned, the foundation has to be strong.

And at the end of the day, it will be Allaah who will be judging us. This is just a forum.

And this thread is to a degree 'pointless' without a similar discussion on mens roles and responsibilities. Because much of what a woman can or cannot achieve (in whatever field, home or outside the home) is sometimes limited (or accelerated) by the menfolk in her family, or her husband.

[AnonyMousey]

I'm going to get burned big time for this, but I think it's quite relevant to the discussion we're having - it's not exactly about wifehood/ motherhood and activism, but definitely relates to it:

The Perfect Muslimah | Muslimah in Progress

[Amélie]

I'm sorry, but God fearing muslim husbands don't behave in this manner with their wife's. That article described an emotionless husband who doesn't consider his wife's feelings, needs and unnecessarily harsh. And also the women sounded like robots.

P.S. We could discuss this in the SS..LOL.

Edit: But she gave good advice, mashaAllah.

[nomad]

What an interesting 19 pages of reading, (which i had to take all day to read as my motherly duties called me). Firstly we are lacking what the term 'activist' actually means. In my opinion, if someone said they were an activist, i would presume they go to lots of demonstrations up hyde park, and are a sort of Lauren Booth type muslim. spending time in the masjid, organising a bring and buy sale in aid of mosque every so often, doesn't really conjure up the term activist. So firstly i think we need a more concise explantion of what the shaykh was speaking about and against. Secondly, being a wife and a mother greatly differs from family to family. Here is a run down of a typical day in my house:
fajr(depending on time of year depends on whether its before wake up time or after)
6:00 wake up kids for school,
6:30 breaky for first 2 kids to leave,
7:00 moaning and 'come on' winjin
7:30 first kids pushed out the door , second load of kids to get ready for school
8:00 moaning and 'come on' ing
8:15 walk kids to school,
9:00 back at home, tidy house, washing, hoovering, blah blah blah boring house hold chores
10:00 sit with daughter homeschooling
12:00 ish, more house work
1pm dhohr, lunch,
2pm cook dinner
3pm walk to school to get 2nd group of kids
4pm home, give dinner
4:30 1st group of kids arrive, dinner, more come on ing fit in asr
5:00 tidy up from dinner, more boring housework
6:00 homework, reading, family time
7:00 bedtime for 2nd group, bit of free time but that is usually spent either ironing, getting dinner for husband, tea, visiting dignitries, etc. magrib
pray isha and bed, too tired for anything else.
(obviously its not as regimental)

As you can appriciate its not a 2 hour job, but i have mashallah 6 kids, so maybe its harder for me than a women with 2 or a women who has all bigger children to do much else than housework. For the time being im quite content with that, however if i found i had free time, i deffinately wouldnt be happy with just sitting around, or shopping! however saying that, if there was a lady interested in islam, i have made time to invite her round, wives of other arabs etc. you know the score, and i try to go to bazaars, support community things, but for me to arrange such things would be above and beyond my capabilities. I have found in the community often events are organised poorly as the wrong person for the job has stepped forward, brothers and sisters. Each sister should know her capability, and not be pressured to step up if she knows she wont do teh job right.

However, one thing i have picked up on is that ez obviously is happy with his wife skills outside the house, is proud of her, and helps her to attain her happiness. This is an important point. mashallah, im sure that the kids are not neglected as the father is picking up and helping.

conclusion, please define what is 'work outside the house activism'