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Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

This is a discussion on Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) within the Helpers' Corner forums, part of the Miscellaneous category; How is it misinterpreted? And what about the women in Fath Makkah who were also commanded to be punished?...

  1. #31
    Naql-head al-suyuufi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    How is it misinterpreted? And what about the women in Fath Makkah who were also commanded to be punished?

  2. #32

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    Quote Originally Posted by al-suyuufi View Post
    How is it misinterpreted? And what about the women in Fath Makkah who were also commanded to be punished?
    The two singing slave girls of al-Maqees? Do you have the actual text where it's said that they were killed for insulting him? And by text I mean the reason given by Rasoolullaah or a Sahaabi that witnessed it happen

    As far as I've seen, the hadeeth in Sunan Abi Dawood doesn't give the reason

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    were they not known to sing against him? What other reason was there for the order?
    Also how if the example of kab misinterpreted?

    finally, this wouldn't explain every incident so what do you do with those?

  4. #34

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    Quote Originally Posted by al-suyuufi View Post
    were they not known to sing against him? What other reason was there for the order?
    I don't know, if you have actual proof that clearly mentions why Rasoolullaah ordered their killing, it'll really make things a lot easier to understand

    Actually I just remembered, there are conflicting reports on who was their owner and why the order was given to kill them. In reality, only one of them was killed while the other accepted Islaam, the reasons on the command of there killing isn't clear, although what I've read was that it was due to treachery and kindling the fire of war against the Muslims

    Also how if the example of kab misinterpreted?
    If you read the Seerah of bin Ishaaq or any biography discussing his assassination, they mostly mention he was inciting the mushrikeen against the Muslims, and it's also mentioned in "The Sealed Nectar." Him insulting Rasoolullaah wasn't the main cause of his killing, rather it was also kindling the fire of war. The ahadeeth don't mention the reason either, but only state he "harmed Allaah and his Messenger." Some have tried to change the word "harm" to "insult" in their English translations and that's not honest work

    finally, this wouldn't explain every incident so what do you do with those?
    Well not every incident is actually authentic, and not all of them actually give rulings on the obligation of doing it

    There's incidents when Jews would say to Rasoolullaah "as-Saamu 'alayka" and 'A'yesha would retaliate, nonetheless Rasoolullaah stopped her and told her the proper way to handle the situation

    And telling someone "death be on you" is for sure an insult
    Last edited by Butterknife al-Batil; 24th February 2011 at 06:29 AM.

  5. #35

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    Bro when they said as-saamu alayka they sholars have said its up to the prophet who he forgives while he is alive what i want from you to answer is
    can me and you kill someone who insults the prophet
    also was the brother who killed the producer of that film that mocked Allah and his Messenger in holland a sinner?
    Quote Originally Posted by Saif ul Haq View Post
    I don't know, if you have actual proof that clearly mentions why Rasoolullaah ordered their killing, it'll really make things a lot easier to understand

    Actually I just remembered, there are conflicting reports on who was their owner and why the order was given to kill them. In reality, only one of them was killed while the other accepted Islaam, the reasons on the command of there killing isn't clear, although what I've read was that it was due to treachery and kindling the fire of war against the Muslims



    If you read the Seerah of bin Ishaaq or any biography discussing his assassination, they mostly mention he was inciting the mushrikeen against the Muslims, and it's also mentioned in "The Sealed Nectar." Him insulting Rasoolullaah wasn't the main cause of his killing, rather it was also kindling the fire of war. The ahadeeth don't mention the reason either, but only state he "harmed Allaah and his Messenger." Some have tried to change the word "harm" to "insult" in their English translations and that's not honest work



    Well not every incident is actually authentic, and not all of them actually give rulings on the obligation of doing it

    There's incidents when Jews would say to Rasoolullaah "as-Saamu 'alayka" and 'A'yesha would retaliate, nonetheless Rasoolullaah stopped her and told her the proper way to handle the situation

    And telling someone "death be on you" is for sure an insult

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    talha that's the question I see no evidence for, can me and you do this to people we have no authority over like random people on the street? Vs. the actual examples where it was someone with some authority over the one they punished...

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    Bro tell me why ibn taymiyyah was wrong and bring the scholars who disagreed don't make a false statement not backed up with daleel
    ''Now I've seen the ''evidences'' people bring and have read what ibn Taymiya said, and I can tell you he was definitely wrong and not all scholars agreed to such a stance'' i want from you all the scholars who disagree with All the great scholars who implemeted there knowledge and those scholars who you claim to be scholars that had this batil stance
    Quote Originally Posted by Saif ul Haq View Post
    What I'm saying Rasoolullaah is the example to be followed and he didn't kill people for insulting him, the evidences shown regarding those whom he ordered to be killed (Ka'b bin 'Ashraf) are misinterpreted

    Now I've already seen the "evidences" people bring and have read what ibn Taymiya said, and I can tell you he was definitely wrong and not all scholars agreed to such a stance

    And rulings differ from a Kaafir insulting him to a Muslim

  8. #38

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    Al Waqidi mentions an incident; the Caliph Haroun ar Rasheed asked Imam Malik about a man
    who had spoken against the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him). Ar
    Rasheed told Imam Malik that the Fuqaha’ of Iraq gave him a Fatwa to flog this man.

    Imam Malik was angry and said, “O Ameer al Mumineen, how can the Ummah survive when its
    Prophet is cursed! Whoever curses the Prophets should be executed, and whoever curses the
    companions of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) should be
    flogged!”

    This is the response of Imam Malik in such a situation!
    When he heard this he was very angry at these so-called Fuqaha’, who gave this false and wrong
    fatwa. He said that there is difference in speaking against the Messenger of Allah (peace and
    blessings of Allah be upon him) and speaking against the Sahabah.
    If you speak against the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) you are
    executed -put to death, if you speak against the companions then you are flogged!
    And now listen to the comments of Al Qadi I’yaad.
    Al Qadi I’yaad said, “This story was narrated to us by more than one person from the companions
    of Malik, and the ones who wrote books about him”
    And then he says, “I have no clue who these scholars from Iraq are who would give such a fatwa
    and we have already mentioned the opinion of the scholars of Iraq -that he should be executed!”
    He then justifies the situation “Probably they are from those scholars who are not known to be
    scholarly, or they are those whose fatwa we cannot trust, or they are those who follow their
    desires. Or probably what this man said is not really cursing (and there is a difference of opinion
    whether it is cursing or not- something that is not clear, as the Khalifah did not clarify that to Imam
    Malik) or probably this is a man who cursed the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah
    be upon him) but then he made Tawbah. Because it is the consensus of the scholars that who
    ever curses the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) should be killed!”

  9. #39

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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    The other book is .Asshifa. fe Ahwal al Mustafa . by Qadi I.yaad -a Maliki scholar. The book talks
    about the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) in general but the last
    part includes a section on blasphemy.

    We will start with what Ibn Taymiyah said,
    Ibn Taymiyah says, .Whoever curses the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be
    upon him) -a Muslim or a non Muslim- then he must be killed!.
    And he says .and this is the opinion of the general body of scholars.

    And Ibn Munzir says, .It is the consensus of our scholars that the one who curses the Messenger
    of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) should be executed!.
    And this is the opinion of Malik, alLaith, Ahmed, Ishaq, Shafi.i and Numan Abu Hanifah.
    The opinion of Abu Hanifa is that the Muslim speaking against the Messenger of Allah (peace and
    blessings of Allah be upon him) should be executed and if it is a non-Muslim who doesn.t have a
    contract he should also be executed.
    In Asshifa. Qadi I.yaad says .It is the Mazhab of Malik that who ever says something that belittles
    the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) should be executed without
    any warning!.

    And even Ibn Ataab says that, .The Book, Quran and Sunnah, imply that who ever seeks to harm
    the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) or belittle him should be killed
    even if it is a very small thing!.

    In fact Imam Malik said, .If someone says that the button of the Messenger of Allah (peace and
    blessings of Allah be upon him) is dirty, then he should be executed!.
    Even if it is as small as saying that, then this person should be executed!
    And then Qadi I.yad says .And we don.t know any different opinion, this is a consensus and we
    don.t know any different opinion!.

    Now brothers and sister, anyone of you who has studied O.sool of Fiqh, would realize that the
    Ijmaa. is Hujjah. That Ijmaa. -when the scholars have consensus on something- is just like Quran
    and Sunnah, because the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) says
    .My Ummah cannot have consensus on something that is wrong. 20
    Imam Malik says, .Whether Muslim or Kafir that doesn.t make difference he should be killed
    without warning!.


    I WILL REPEAT WHAT IMAAN MALIK SAID ''PROBABLY THEY ARE SCHOLARS WHO ARE NOT KNOWN OR THEY ARE THOSE WHO'S FATWAS CANT BE TRUSTED OR THEY ARE THOSE WHO FOLLOW THERE DESIRES. (TO ALL THOSE WHO SAY THE ONE WHO INSULTS THE PROPHET IS NOT A KAFIR OR SHOULDN'T BE KILLED OR THOSE HYPOCRITES WHO CAUSE CONFUSION IN THIS UMMAH)




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    Default Re: Ruling about the one who commits blasphemy of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)

    Now some of the arguments that are presented is that when the Jews came to the Messenger of
    Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) and rather then saying .Assalamu alaikum.,

    they said .Assamu alaikum. which means, .May death befall you..

    Aisha (may Allah be pleased with her) cursed them and then the Messenger of Allah (peace and
    blessings of Allah be upon him) told her
    .That Allah Almighty, loves leniency in all things.
    And he told her not to curse them.

    So these say that this is how we should deal with these people. Ibn Taymiyah and Qadi I.yaad did
    not leave it with out responding to and refuting it.
    Qadi Iyaad said, .This hadith, and others similar to it, were in the beginning of Islam, but after that
    the Huqm of Sharia is that they should not be forgiven.. So he said this is a Huqm that is

    Mansookh- is abrogated.


    Ibn Taymiyah says .Number one this is not an outwardly clear cursing of the Messenger of Allah
    (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) because that is something that is not apparent for
    everyone..
    And then he also says that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
    can forgive but we cannot! This is the Haq (right) of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings
    of Allah be upon him), it is something that belongs to him -to forgive or not to forgive- because it
    is a harm done to him, so he has the right to forgive!
    But we don.t have that right, it is a Haq of the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah
    be upon him) and therefore he is the one who can forgive!
    For example, somebody steals money from me and then you forgive him! It is none of your
    business! How could you forgive him? I am the one who needs to forgive him!
    So it is up to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) to forgive or not.

    Ibn Taymiyyah says, .After the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)
    passed away, we cannot forgive anyone. We can forgive people when they harm us, but not

    when they harm the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him)!
    .
    Another argument is that the Kuffar curse Allah Almighty and they say that Allah has a son -when
    they talk about Isa (peace be upon him), so that is something greater.


    Ibn Taymiyah says, .When they say that about Allah, they really don.t mean to curse Allah, it is
    their believe and they honestly believe in that. And when they say that, they don.t intend to curse!

    But when they speak about the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him),

    they are intending to harm the Muslims and they are intending to speak against Islam and

    therefore the two are different.

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