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Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

This is a discussion on Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks within the Sciences of the Qur'aan forums, part of the Main Topics category; Assalamu alaikum, Does anyone know any site that has Tafsir Ibn Kathir? www.tafsir.com has been down for a couple of ...

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    Default Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    Assalamu alaikum,

    Does anyone know any site that has Tafsir Ibn Kathir? www.tafsir.com has been down for a couple of weeks.

    I know about this one: Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir but I found a couple of mistakes, and it's not really user friendly anyway.
    I also found this one: http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/ but it doesn't have the verses in Arabic.

    Does anyone know of another site that has Tafsir ibn Kathir online similar to how www.tafsir.com was? I am not looking for software or a PDF, just a user-friendly website like www.tafsir.com that also has the verses in Arabic.

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    wa 'alaykum salam.

    Verses are in Arabic and English. The file size is about 32 MB. But worth downloading.

    http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/Tafsir Ibn Kathir all 10 volumes.pdf
    الإمام ابن القيم الجوزية رحمه الله فقال: بل الدين كله هو الخلق، فمن زاد عليك في الخلق، فقد زاد عليك في الدين
    مدارج السالكين ج2 ص
    307

    Imam Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah رحمه الله said: Religion consists entirely of good character (الدين كله هو الخلق). Whoever surpasses you in good character surpasses you in religion.
    اللهم يا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلوبنا على دينك

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by ish View Post
    Assalamu alaikum,

    Does anyone know any site that has Tafsir Ibn Kathir? www.tafsir.com has been down for a couple of weeks.

    I know about this one: Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir but I found a couple of mistakes, and it's not really user friendly anyway.
    I also found this one: http://abdurrahman.org/qurantafseer/ibnkathir/ but it doesn't have the verses in Arabic.

    Does anyone know of another site that has Tafsir ibn Kathir online similar to how www.tafsir.com was? I am not looking for software or a PDF, just a user-friendly website like www.tafsir.com that also has the verses in Arabic.
    Don't really want to get into the copyright issue, but . . .

    If you see the website in which the program has retrieved the Tafsir, then you will see that it is an exact copy of the Darussalam version.

    And Abu Khaliyl Jadd Sylvester (USA), one of the translators of the Tafsir, sent an e-mail on three separate occasions warning this website not to distribute work that is not their own. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir (10 volume set) is protected via copyright and a mere comparison of the volumes with these websites and softwares will reveal that this copyright is infringed.
    Mahmud bin Labid narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The thing that I fear the most for you is the minor Shirk: Riya' (showing off)."-Al-Musnad Imam Ahmad (#22528); authenticated by Al-Hilali

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    That is non-sense. You rather not benefit Muslims cause of copyrights? Something the kuffar started.

    Many things we use 'illegally' are copyrighted. I understand that they have to sell the books to cover the publishing cost. But at same time, the books will sell because not everyone wants it online. I can't understand how any Muslim copyrights something that can benefit millions and get 'ajr for it.
    الإمام ابن القيم الجوزية رحمه الله فقال: بل الدين كله هو الخلق، فمن زاد عليك في الخلق، فقد زاد عليك في الدين
    مدارج السالكين ج2 ص
    307

    Imam Ibn Al-Qayyim Al-Jawziyyah رحمه الله said: Religion consists entirely of good character (الدين كله هو الخلق). Whoever surpasses you in good character surpasses you in religion.
    اللهم يا مقلب القلوب ثبت قلوبنا على دينك

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    This is by far the best Tafsir ibn Katheer site online:

    Tafsir Ibn Kathir - Quran Tafsir
    أَوَمَن كَانَ مَيْتًا فَأَحْيَيْنَاهُ وَجَعَلْنَا لَهُ نُورًا يَمْشِي بِهِ فِي النَّاسِ كَمَن مَّثَلُهُ فِي الظُّلُمَاتِ لَيْسَ بِخَارِجٍ مِّنْهَا كَذَٰلِكَ زُيِّنَ لِلْكَافِرِينَ مَا كَانُوا يَعْمَلُونَ


    {“And is one who was dead and We gave him life and made for him light by which to walk among the people like one who is in darkness, never to emerge therefrom? Thus it has been made pleasing to the disbelievers that which they were doing.’”}

    Al-An'aam 122

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Massoud View Post
    Don't really want to get into the copyright issue, but . . .
    You did. So strap in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Massoud View Post
    If you see the website in which the program has retrieved the Tafsir, then you will see that it is an exact copy of the Darussalam version.
    So, all that means is that they should give credit where it's due.

    Quote Originally Posted by Massoud View Post
    And Abu Khaliyl Jadd Sylvester (USA), one of the translators of the Tafsir, sent an e-mail on three separate occasions warning this website not to distribute work that is not their own. The Tafsir of Ibn Kathir (10 volume set) is protected via copyright and a mere comparison of the volumes with these websites and softwares will reveal that this copyright is infringed.
    If it was not allowed in Islam to transcribe the works of others without permission from the author where it came to the works of scholars, Abu Khalil would not have had any work to translate in the first place.

    So what determined that the work of Ibn Kathir was allowed to be translated by Abu Khalil? Did he get permission from Ibn Kathir or his relatives to translate the work and claim that it is an interpretation of the original work?

    Of course not. Because men determined that copyright laws are effective for only a certain amount of time. Did any Islamic scholars or jurists have a say in development of the copyright laws?

    It is one thing to pass work off as your own or not to give credit, it's another thing to create a work or a service that is reproducible and to demand that it not be done simply because kafir laws say you can do that.

    Finally, there is a difference of opinion among our scholars on the issue. I certainly don't want anyone doing anything that could lead to imprisonment or a fine where it comes to copyright infringement laws and penalties in the west. However, that does not mean we should go around warning people against infringing on copyrights when this goes against the well-known precept that in matters of Ikhtilaf one should not condemn others who take a valid position on the matter.

    I leave you with the Fatwa of Shaykh Sulayman Ibn Nasir Al-‘Ulwan:

    5-If someone wants to copy it in order to learn or teach, spread Da'wah, etc. he has the right to do so even if it is copyrighted, but cannot make money off of it. Also, if he can pay, he should, as it took time and money for the thing to be written and published to begin with.
    Source

    If you believe differently than that, that is your right. However present your view in a manner that shows balance and acknowledgement of the other views, In Sha Allah, as that is closer to justice and fairness in advising others.
    "Their generosity is impressive, their faces luminous, their voices soft, their manners exquisite. And they have given us the satisfying feeling that we are more important to them than time, or anything else."


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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    It might be useful to read this first before taking the more lenient position:

    as-salamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah:

    Some people have advertised, made available, circulated, etc., books in various data forms that are owned by others.

    There is a popular statement that circulates upon the tongues of the Muslims:

    "There is no copyright in Islam"

    Many of the arguments put forward by the claimants, deal with "gray" areas about the topic. For example, everyone is free to recite the Qur'an, the hadiths, etc., no one can claim to have a copyright to a copy of the Qur'an, etc.

    Just that statement alone, which I wrote above, contains truth and falsehood in it, misleading points and correct points. And similar arguments abound.

    As for the Qur'an, it is the word of Allah, uncreated, there is no means for "the Qur'an" to be brought into the discussion, whoever brings it into the discussion must ask themself:

    "Why did I liken Allah's speech to the works of creatures in this matter?" And I can not answer that question for you.

    As for the hadiths, the books of "Rijaal" and "al-Jarh wat-Ta`deel" are full of people whose biographies say things like:

    "He was in Baghdad, stealing hadiths..."

    And the title: "thief of hadiths"

    It is not a secret just because the average people do not know it. Rather, those versed in the field should be well aware of this.

    And what does that mean? It generally refers to a person who is narrating hadiths to people with certain chains on the authority of some shaykh that did not actually give him any form of permission to do so, or, from whom he did not actually hear it, or whom he did not actually meet.

    Meanings similar to this are found when a person was accused of stealing hadiths.

    Nowadays, the popular books of hadith are printed and re-printed by various publishers all over the world.

    Rather than people being concerned about learning them from the scholars or the qualified, people are merely concerned with which editions are best, free of typing errors, with the correct selections of alternative wordings found in the various manuscripts, overseen by better scholars or editors, etc.

    Some publishing companies are known for their lack of concern about typing errors in their publications of such books, and others will often take a printed edition, edited and carefully prepared by another publisher with a team of editors and reference writters, and re-print it without mention of any of that, giving the apperance that this publisher has done all of this work.

    Often times they are not very good at hiding that either, sometimes leaving certain footnotes that make no sense without some of the important notes that were in the introduction which the stealing publisher has removed, etc., and on and on.

    Our people have found many ways to steal from each other, calling it by other names.

    This is the point of the examples above, while there are so many of them that they could not be mentioned in a message like this.

    So now, you may pick up a copy of an Arabic printed edition of Sahih al-Bukhari and read the hadiths, and there is no argument that this is good.

    But ask yourself this then, if you are with Imam al-Bukhari, and he said to you: "I do not want you narrating these hadiths of mine" will you tell him: "there is no copyright in Islam?" Then you will be one of those theives in the books of "Rijaal" I mentioned before.

    All of this is dealing with the texts in Arabic. And whoever believes that someone's translation of a religious text in English is somehow a legacy or the sole domain of the "ummah" then he is severly confused.

    A translation is but an explanation, and those who translated it are its explainers, and if they tell you that you do not have the right to make copies of it and distribute it, and you do so, then you are a theif.

    The same with a book that is written by an author on a topic, and the same with a translation of such book.

    I personally worked on the Arabic abridgement of al-Misbah al-Muneer fi Tahdheeb Tafseer Ibn Kathir, in Riyadh, with Shaykh Safiur-Rahmaan al-Mubarakpuri, and I over-saw the English preperation of it (the ten volumes of the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir), and edited it entirely, and it was my responsibility to determine which narrations were removed from the Arabic text - since we wanted to present the people with only the authentic hadiths of the Prophet (sall Allahu `alaihi wa sallam), removing the weak narrations, as well as other work that I am not listing here.

    Now whatever you read in the English translation, who do you think decided it should be there, and said this or that way? And do you have more right over my work than I? Do you have more right over our work that we do?

    So we were a team of translators and editors who prepared this text under the supervision of our Shaykh Safiur-Rahmaan, the author of ar-Raheeq al-Makhtoom - which should be mentioned shortly if Allah wills.

    We agreed to do this work for Darussalam, and Darussalam would be the owner of that work.

    I have been working for Darussalam for over 7 years now, I revised the translation of ar-Raheeq al-Makhtoom (which someone has tried to distribute a file or link of here) while Shaykh Safiur-Rahmaan was present in Riyadh, and with an edition of the text in Arabic that he wrote additional notes and edited with pencil and pen by his own hand.

    I was given instructions by the publisher as to what sort of editing, and how much time to spend, etc. There is a list of things I did, which I will not mention here.

    I ask you, do you have more authority, ownership, right over our work than we do?

    So consider this, you write your own great book in Arabic, or Urdu, or English, you go out and spend on a copy of the complete version of the Tafsir of Ibn Katheer, then you abridge it in Arabic as you want and see is best - get your own scholars to help you - then you hire a team of translators and editors and you get them to translate it into different languages and you sell it to cover the expenses of its production. Do you think I have the right to then make copies of it in various forms and distribute it without your permission?

    Someone says: "People should do for the sake of Allah not money." Eh!? People who do for the sake of Allah - Allah knows who they are does He not? And the one who has the right, has the right to decide what is done with the right. So people should fear Allah, because they could never do for His sake if they did not fear Him first! And it can not be said that the one who is taking the right of his brother is "fearing Allah" while doing so!

    I warn you my brothers and sisters, against taking the lenient of two different opinions when the lenient - if wrong - means you are stealing from Muslims. Because wrong-doing, oppression, injustice, will be darkness for you on the Day of Resurrection.

    Lastly, I realize that we live in the age where people have no regard for learning, rather just acquiring stuff, so they can say they have it, and be inspired, to get more stuff, and complain about how everyone else should be helping them get more stuff, and stop being so stingy with them, and one expects that whatever they want to read - they should be able to get it for free on the internet.

    So as much as there is no copyright in Islam, there is no sitting on your behind and getting knowledge without effort in Islam either.

    So make your decision, either learn according to Islam, or follow the way of the disbelievers, not giving the rights, committing the injustices, blaming it on others, calling evil by another name, claiming to be innocent when you know you are not, spreading mischeif in the land, etc.

    I have said all of this, because, as it is not secret to most, copying English translations of texts and spreading them on the internet is the standard which many Muslims have adopted, and they could never, ever, in all of time, prove that doing that is halal in Islam, as long as the publisher of the text has written on every copy "All rights reserved...."

    And do not even dare to be so ventursome to compare our work to Allah's speech if you are a Muslim!

    So consider this and beware, I have written privately to many, and Allah blessed them to see the way on this matter, to close websites, to stop spreading some things for free that we have published, but I will not tolerate people sending messages to this email group with attachments or directing to links where people can go and get or acquire materials that these people do not have the right to spread in such form., etc.

    And while there is much more that I could write about this, I only drew this out because of my experience with the doubts that are often raised by people. And Allah knows best.

    jazakum Allahu khaira
    was-salamu `alaykum
    Abu Khaliyl
    Last edited by Massoud; 26th August 2011 at 05:49 AM.
    Mahmud bin Labid narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The thing that I fear the most for you is the minor Shirk: Riya' (showing off)."-Al-Musnad Imam Ahmad (#22528); authenticated by Al-Hilali

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn al-Iskandar View Post
    If it was not allowed in Islam to transcribe the works of others without permission from the author where it came to the works of scholars, Abu Khalil would not have had any work to translate in the first place.

    So what determined that the work of Ibn Kathir was allowed to be translated by Abu Khalil? Did he get permission from Ibn Kathir or his relatives to translate the work and claim that it is an interpretation of the original work?

    Of course not. Because men determined that copyright laws are effective for only a certain amount of time. Did any Islamic scholars or jurists have a say in development of the copyright laws?
    This is a rather ridiculous argument; the Darussalam edition is an abridgement, or more precisely, a Tahdib. There is a great distinction between what you are stating and what Darussalam did.

    Trust me, Abu Khaliyl's position is by far more appropriate in this context as you will see:

    as-salamu `alaykum wa rahmatullah:

    Through personal messages, as well as those sent to quranwasunnah@yahoogroups it occured to me that I should elaborate on a few more points.

    I have stated in the previous message that translations are but interpretations of translators, some are better, more precise, more "desireable" than others.

    Taking the case of the translation of the Qur'an for example, at Darussalam, we are favored to have the expressed permission of Shaykh Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan, to hold the copyright to his and Shaykh Muhammad Taqiud-Deen al-Hilali's translation entitled:

    "Interpretation of the Meanings of The Noble Qur'an in the English Language, A Summarized version of at-Tabari, al-Qurtubi, and Ibn Kathir...."

    Reading the title, it is clear of the intent of those who prepared it. While it is normally referred too today as: "The Noble Qur'an (translation) by Muhsin Khan"

    Then, shortening the title on the tongues of the people, leads to the idea that it is somehow "the Quran" and therefore, there can be no copyright of the Qur'an, etc, as was mentioned before.

    While it is clear as stated on the cover in the title, that there is no claim that this English translation is the Qur'an, but rather interpretations of it in the English language.....

    What follows, is directed to those who are concerned with translations, as for classical Islamic texts in the Arabic language, most of what I said does not apply to that, because in most cases, the original Arabic text of a "classical" book - Ibn Kathir for example, will not have a copyright holder, or its equivelant in our time. And again, I have explained that the Darussalam edition is an Abridgement, being a translation of the Arabic edition entitled: "Al-Misbah al-Muneer fi Tah-dheeb Tafseer Ibn Katheer." So my saying that Ibn Kathir in Arabic is "free domain" has nothing to do with the abridged edition that we worked on and translated and published.

    Translations can be divided into two categories with respect to the authors of the original Arabic text:

    1. Those scholars of the past, or distant past, like Ibn Kathir, al-Bukhari and others.
    2. Those of the recent past or present, like Shaykhs al-Albani, Ibn Baz, Ibn `Uthaymeen, Muqbil bin Hadi etc.

    For the first category, what I said before should be enough, in nearly all cases we do not find anyone saying that they hold the rights to these original Arabic texts, therefore, there should be no reason - without a claimant - for us to fear translating and publishing them in other languages.

    In the second category, the case of each of them will differ depending upon what is known or made known. For example, many or most of Shaykh al-Albani's works have been sold by the Shaykh to the owner of Maktabah al-Ma`aarif in Riyadh, he personally told me when I was purchasing some books there: "Just don't translate any of them, I have the rights to that." Meaning, according to him, and what I have learned since then, it is not lawful for anyone to translate any of those titles which Shaykh al-Albani gave to his publishing house, since the Shaykh also gave translation rights to those titles, and for some monetary amount. So the right to sell it is the Shaykhs, and after that the right belongs to the one he sold it.

    There are a number of books that he did not sell, some are still the right of al-Maktab al-Islami in Beirut, and there may be others with other publishers too.

    There is no rule with these books, or, no rule that we can state with certainty, except that we can say as I said above, if the original owner of the work has sold it and its right to translation for some money to someone, or given - for free - all expressed rights of publication, as original or otherwise translated, to someone, than the one who received that right, as a gift or after payment, has more right than anyone else. That is well founded in Islamic law, and there can be no dispute of these facts.

    Shaykh Ibn `Uthaymeen, his work in orignal language as well as some translations is available on website established by his foundation, and they mention that only they have the rights to the titles:

    http://www.ibnothaimeen.com/index.shtml

    scroll to the bottom of the page and it is even written in English.

    As for Shaykh Ibn Baz, I am not really aware of details pertaining to his works.

    As for Shaykh Muqbil - he approved of me translating and publishing Sahih al-Musnad fi Asbab an-Nuzool some years ago (perhaps it was over ten), and about 1/3 of it was published in the periodical HUDAA at that time while I was a contributor and editor, which I have not been since the past seven or eight years.

    Then while in Riyadh, shortly, I think it was not even a year perhaps before the Shaykhs death, may Allah have mercy with him, he wrote permission for Darussalam, that is he wrote it with his hand on paper, that they have the permission to re-publish the Arabic text. And he also gave us permission for his COMPLETE annotation of the Tafsir of Ibn Kathir, - that is he actually gave it to us, and I often consulted it for our project with Ibn Kathir. It was a set of notebooks with his hand written footnotes and footnote reference numbers written in the volumes of Ibn Kathir cooresponding to his written footnotes in the notebooks. I hope that Allah facilitates that we may complete the reprinting of the Shaykh's Arabic text of Asbab an-Nuzool in Arabic, as the earlier edition had a number of typing errors, and the Shaykh had some more notes and changes. And I hope that Allah will facilitate the printing of the complete Arabic edition of the Shaykhs annotation of Ibn Kathir's Tafsir. I heard later that someone has translated his book on Asbab an-Nuzul, perhaps that person had acquired some permission from the Shaykhs relatives after his death, or from him during his life, and Allah knows best.

    That story above, sheds light on the difficulty in some of these cases, where it may be that more than one has been given the right to translate a title, or to publish it. And it also supports the claim that with authors of recent or modern times, we must be very careful and ascertain the situation before just deciding that we are going to translate and publish their works.

    Then, there is no doubt that because translations are interpretations only, they can not be considered to be a theft of the original. But as I have said, if the author has given permission to translate to only this person, than only this person has been given that permission, and if another did it later, it may or may not be considered "wrong" based upon whether the author sold that permission, or gave it for da`wah purposes alone, etc.

    This is further comment to clarify that what I wrote previously was essentially addressed to English books that are published, then spread through various means by other than the publishers in an attempt to make them "free domain." All of what I said or wrote is not addressed to all kinds of texts in all languages, and with what I wrote before, and these additional points, I think that should be clear if Allah wills.

    Suffice it to say that English translations taken from Darussalam publications, they may not be posted in complete form on websites, nor shared by any other means in their complete form. This was the objective of the original, and I have been authorized to say that, and to anyone who had some "school of thought" to the contrary that they wish to convert others to about this: the number of the main office of Darussalam in Riyadh is on every one of their books, no one is stopping anyone from calling them, and that is the next step for the complaint.

    And indeed Allah knows best.

    was-salamu `alaykum
    Abu Khaliyl




    Last edited by Massoud; 26th August 2011 at 06:11 AM.
    Mahmud bin Labid narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The thing that I fear the most for you is the minor Shirk: Riya' (showing off)."-Al-Musnad Imam Ahmad (#22528); authenticated by Al-Hilali

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by Ibn al-Iskandar View Post
    So, all that means is that they should give credit where it's due.
    Hate to break it to you, but they didn't. So much for keeping it classy, eh?
    Last edited by Massoud; 26th August 2011 at 06:08 AM.
    Mahmud bin Labid narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The thing that I fear the most for you is the minor Shirk: Riya' (showing off)."-Al-Musnad Imam Ahmad (#22528); authenticated by Al-Hilali

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    Default Re: Other options for Tafsir Ibn Kathir online. www.tafsir.com has been down for weeks

    Quote Originally Posted by أبو جنبية View Post
    That is non-sense. You rather not benefit Muslims cause of copyrights? Something the kuffar started.

    Many things we use 'illegally' are copyrighted. I understand that they have to sell the books to cover the publishing cost. But at same time, the books will sell because not everyone wants it online. I can't understand how any Muslim copyrights something that can benefit millions and get 'ajr for it.
    This response is priceless:

    So consider this, you write your own great book in Arabic, or Urdu, or English, you go out and spend on a copy of the complete version of the Tafsir of Ibn Katheer, then you abridge it in Arabic as you want and see is best - get your own scholars to help you - then you hire a team of translators and editors and you get them to translate it into different languages and you sell it to cover the expenses of its production. Do you think I have the right to then make copies of it in various forms and distribute it without your permission?

    Someone says: "People should do for the sake of Allah not money." Eh!? People who do for the sake of Allah - Allah knows who they are does He not? And the one who has the right, has the right to decide what is done with the right. So people should fear Allah, because they could never do for His sake if they did not fear Him first! And it can not be said that the one who is taking the right of his brother is "fearing Allah" while doing so!

    I warn you my brothers and sisters, against taking the lenient of two different opinions when the lenient - if wrong - means you are stealing from Muslims. Because wrong-doing, oppression, injustice, will be darkness for you on the Day of Resurrection.
    Mahmud bin Labid narrated that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "The thing that I fear the most for you is the minor Shirk: Riya' (showing off)."-Al-Musnad Imam Ahmad (#22528); authenticated by Al-Hilali

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