"The Status of Hasan Li Ghayrihi Ahaadeeth"

[Turaabie]

as-Salamu 'Alaikum.

Do a number of weak hadeeth make the action part of Islam?

Jazzaka-Allaahu Khayr.

Wa 'Alaikum as-Salam.

[Turaabie]

Anyone... br.Abuz-Zubair?

I know of Brealwies who use this in their favour to make certain acts justifibale...

[Umm Ahmed]

This is on Islamweb

Abu Bakr Ibn ‘Arabi said: “The weak Hadeeth should be absolutely avoided and not dealt with.”

Second, we should know that the scholars of Hadeeth who permitted the use of weak Hadeeth have set very strict rules applying to their use. Al-Haafith Ibn Hajar Al-‘Asqalaani

said: “There are three conditions that must be fulfilled in order to use the weak Hadeeth:

a. It is well accepted that the weakness should only be slight. This will help to exclude Hadeeth reported by liars or accused reporters (of lying) who are known to commit big mistakes.

b. The weak Hadeeth should be used under already well-established principles and should not bring in ideas of its own.

c. When a weak Hadeeth is used (after it fulfills the above two conditions), it should not be believed to be said by the Messenger of Allaah ; to do so we would be crediting him with that which he did not say.

For the above conditions to be satisfied, people planning to use the weak Hadeeth should have the ability to:

1. Distinguish between the weak and the authentic Hadeeth in order to fulfill condition (c) above, otherwise they may fall into lying about the Messenger .

2. Distinguish between the slightly weak Hadeeth and those which are very weak or fabricated, in order to fulfill condition (a) above.

What should be very clear to Muslims is that the ability to make the above two distinctions is not possessed except by a very small category of the scholars of Hadeeth (who can be counted on the fingers).

In particular with reference to item (2) above, only a few of the scholars of Hadeeth in all of the history of Islam have dealt with it.

Someone might justifiably ask: “Why are we so strict in this matter (of using weak Hadeeth), when some scholars of Hadeeth have permitted it?”

The answer to this question was given by a great scholar of Hadeeth, Muhammad Naassir Ad-Deen Al-Albaani who said:

“The earlier scholars used to mention the Hadeeth with their full Isnaad (chain of Narrators), so that any other scholar reading their treatise could know from the chain of Narrators the degree of authenticity of the Hadeeth.”

We pray that this small introduction to the subject of weak Hadeeth and using it as proof has helped in clarifying how dangerous this is.


By: Abu ‘Abdullaah Muhammad Al-Jibaaly

[Turaabie]

Jazzaaki-Allaahu Khayran Katheeran (L)

[Abuz Zubair]

If the ahadeeth are VERY weak, such that there may be a liar in the chain, or two narrators missing from the chain, etc, then even if there are hundreds of such narrations, they still remain weak, and in fact, are considered even weaker.

But if ahadeeth are not VERY weak, such that there is one dha'if narrator involved, or there is tadlis involved, etc... then yes, a few weak ahadeeth can be considered hasan due to all the different chains coming together.

[Abu Maryam PK]

Bismillah
Assalamoalaikum

But if ahadeeth are not VERY weak, such that there is one dha'if narrator involved, or there is tadlis involved, etc... then yes, a few weak ahadeeth can be considered hasan due to all the different chains coming together.

This is not always true. Shaikh Haytham Hamadan replied to this:
http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vbe/showthread.php?t=695

The shaykh gave some examples of that too. I remember there was a long discussion on it in the arabic multaqa ahlulhadith, but till the time i followed it there were no conclusions drawn. Maybe brother justabro can shed more light.

[Abuz Zubair]

I agree with brother badr al-deen there:

Respectable brother Haitham,

I have a comment to make.

The Hadeeth of “whomsoever memorizes 40 hadeeth …”. didn't become Hasan li-thatihi because it didn't fulfill what sister Um Abdullah has stated, that's why it is declared weak by the salaf. Sister Um Abdullah said: "But if the weakness was because of fisq or lying, then it can't become hasan." And this is what actually happened with this report. Imam Ibn al-Jauzi mentioned all these reports relating to this hadeeth with all their chains in his "al-'ilal al-mutanahiya" and pointed out all weak links. They are all lyers and the like.

Barakallahu fiekum wa ghafara lana jamee'an

I looked through the thread and each and every chain has someone very weak, matruk, etc, etc... and as I said, this many extremely weak chains only increase the hadeeth in weakness.

I would like someone to quote me from one of the works on mustalah where this issue is discussed, which suggests that this isn't a dhabit, or even if it is, then sometimes it isn't, and what is the dhabit to determine when the previous rule is or is not a dhabit?

[Abuz Zubair]

justabro, what's you take on this?

[sunnih]

As for: "But if the weakness was because of fisq". No doubt that fisq consists of different things and just like it's judgement could be relative also the ruling on the reporter acused of fisq can be relative. However, just because the narrator can be a fasiq, this does not automatically make the hadith rejected or denied the chance to become hasan. This is in line with the order of Allah to us that we should verify the news from a fasiq but the order did not mention to reject it. So the matter goes further and not all the types of fisq are equal. These rules presented are there for guidance and are not rigid. Each hadith is judged individually but if the weakness of them is grave then they can not be used to strengthen each other as bro Abu Zubayr did mention. Also when a hadith is taken as hasan as a support it does not mean that the hadith is hasan in itself but when used as support it can be viewed as hasan otherwise it remains daif. So the matter is a broad one and of course disagreements will exist. However the ahadith that the sufis and their likes try to use do not have a leg to stand upon so nothing from this applies to them.

[Abu Maryam PK]

Bismillah
Assalamoalaikum

I would like someone to quote me from one of the works on mustalah where this issue is discussed, which suggests that this isn't a dhabit, or even if it is, then sometimes it isn't, and what is the dhabit to determine when the previous rule is or is not a dhabit?

I would try to find the multaqa thread i was talking about and paste it here.