Abdullâh `Azzâm Utterly Refutes al-Qaeda

Discussion in 'Global Affairs' started by abu hadeed, Mar 26, 2012.

  1. abu hadeed

    abu hadeed <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    [video=youtube;gjrqyulQsKc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjrqyulQsKc[/video]


    no idea if its credible.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2012
    voiceofpk likes this.
  2. أم عمارة

    أم عمارة New Member

    What is in that video is stated in this book: http://www.p4peace.com/edisi/data/unlicensed to kill-ebook.pdf


    This is the same book which has a fatwa on page 165 condemning terrorism. It mentions: "It is the civic and religious duty of Muslims to cooperate with law enforcement authorities to protect the lives of all civilians. "


    Regardless, with relation to the actual apparent statements, remember the following:
    "O you who have believed, if there comes to you a disobedient one with information, investigate, lest you harm a people out of ignorance and become, over what you have done, regretful." [al-Hujarat:6]
     
    walid likes this.
  3. voiceofpk

    voiceofpk New Member

    Hows the shaykh rh refuting Al Qaeda? he didnt even mention them, the title sounds like it's implying al Qaeda's core ideology is to attack women, children and all Xtians.
     
  4. Abu Hawwa

    Abu Hawwa Formerly 'LionofIslam'

    this is also from the book "words from Abdullah Azzam" book on kalamullah which brothers from this forum translated
     
  5. abu hadeed

    abu hadeed <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    you have to understand that there are certain Muslims who think that prior to 9/11 everything was fine in the World and the Kuffar and Muslims were camping around fires singing songs.
     
  6. abu hadeed

    abu hadeed <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    "its not allowed for you to rip up a telephone bill"

    this reminds me of an incident involving a Saudi student who i knew in the UK, he rented a house from an elderly non muslim couple however before leaving after completing his degree he accumulated a massive Internet and telephone bill.I questioned him as why he refused to pay it considering the Saudi government pays his rent and tuition fee and he lives with minimum overhead.

    His reply was that Britian is Dar ul Kufr thus he was not obligated to honour any pacts with them.Irony here is that this man was firecly anti Kharijee anti qubi troublemakers.
     
  7. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    This is just ONE of the ways in which Sh Abdullah Azzam rh differed with AQ.

    BTW, AQ was actually Muhammad Qutb's idea, and Abdullah Azzami's mission. It was than hijacked by Ayman al-Dhawahiri, and the rest is history.

    If there is one person to be credited for mobilising the Arab world to the Afghan Jihad, it was Abdullah Azzam. He was a practical person, with a global vision. Most importantly, he was someone who was able to carry the Ummah with him, rather than take actions unilaterally. He had good relations with the Ulama all around with world, as well as the different leaders of Jihad in Afghanistan.

    Salafis, be they Egyptian Jihadists or other strands, I feel have been largely divisive and destructive. This is why I still feel, if we have any hope, it is in someone as pragmatic as an Ikhwani like Abdullah Azzam. I don't see any political maturity in any strand of the Salafis to lead the Ummah.
     
    AdamSami likes this.
  8. Wild Wild West

    Wild Wild West لا تعتذر اليوم

    You what?

    I don't think you've ever come out with so much in a single day.

    Please explain this one to me.
     
  9. abu hadeed

    abu hadeed <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    not that i support AQs ideology however during the time of Abdullah Azzam it was a different kettle of fish.The USSR didn't have the clout and influence that the US has today in regards to the Muslim world besides a few Socialist Arab nations.

    Had he still been alive today , I can almost guarantee that many prominent ulema would not speak favorably about him.

    the Russians were a perfect enemy to fight since everybody hated their guts even the Chinese, in fact the US administration spoke favorably of the Chechen resistance up until the Beslan massacre.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
  10. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Saudis definitely would not have been favourable to him, be he would still had support from the Ikhwan.
     
  11. abu hadeed

    abu hadeed <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    unlikely considering Egypt is in the US camp of influence.
     
    Ibn Jafar likes this.
  12. Wild Wild West

    Wild Wild West لا تعتذر اليوم

    The Ikhwan (and especially in Egypt) are nothing like they used to be.

    I think even the cuddly 'Amr Khalid would not like him.

    I think Wagdi Ghoneim would do, though.
     
    Ibn Jafar likes this.
  13. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Ikhwan are much bigger than Egypt
     
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  14. 'Abd al-Kareem

    'Abd al-Kareem Scaffolding

    Do you think it's reasonable to say that if the Shaykh (rahimahullah) was alive today, he'd undoubtedly be labeled a public enemy and a terrorist with no chance of citizenship anywhere? (In other words, he'd be in the mountains.)
     
  15. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Allahu Alam... God knows what would have happened. However, he was also a very diplomatic politician, and if he was alive and in control, Afghanistan would have become a success story, not only in terms of implementation of Sharia, but also in terms of economics and international relations. He would never have allowed 9/11 to take place.
     
  16. milk

    milk New Member

    thats wot madkhalis do, say so and so has been refuted by sheikh so and so. yet the sheikh never mentions that actual person or group.

    and another point, too many people support jihad movements only when there is no harm on them, i.e afghan jihad, or whats happening in syria. but how many people can openly support taliban today or AQ. tomorrow these same people will praise the likes of ayman al zawahiri when the khilafa comes. hypocrites
     
  17. Abu Hawwa

    Abu Hawwa Formerly 'LionofIslam'

    How was it his idea?

    I have to disagree with you, I strongly believe if Al Qaida changes just a tad bit than they can really lead the ummah. They have brought a lot of change to the area in the Muslim world and have brought good as well as bad. If it wasn't for there idea (and the grace of Allah) Yemen wouldn't have the Abyan area rise and have a jihadi base. They have control of at least a minor part of yemen and a good amount of Somalia. Maybe Allah will cause them to grow and change for they have survived for a really long time. The Taliban were also horrible at first but now look at how much they've grown and the genius of there plans are working by the Grace and Permission of Allah. However I do agree, the mind of Abdullah Azzam that graced us was phenomenal. I feel that he was indeed the mujadid of this century. Allahu Alim
     
  18. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Muhammad Qutb discussed his idea of al-Qa'ida al-Sulba in his Waqi'una al-Mu'asir. In this book he derides the two common approaches for change; i) The Jihadi approach which believes in armed revolt against modern secular governments, and ii) The Ikhwani approach, i.e. change from within by participating in the democratic process.

    He instead called for al-Qa'ida al-Sulba, the strong base which is independent, self-sustaining and can defend itself against foreign invasions, and I believe he mentioned the Mujahidin of Afghanistan by name. From there he believed Islamists should try to reclaim Muslim countries one by one through various means, and not necessarily through violence.

    Sh Abdullah Azzam believed in this idea, and this is what he was trying to achieve. Although, he sympathised for those who rebelled against the modern regimes, he still disagreed with their methodology. In a number of books and tapes, he often spoke about: From Kabul to al-Quds, and that was his dream.
     
  19. Father J

    Father J <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I find it telling that AZ says Allaahu 'Alim about whether or not 'Abdullaah 'Azzaam would be in the mountains if he were still alive today, but then he has perfect knowledge about what he would or would not have done (differently than al-Qaa'idah of course).

    Mainly this is a self-serving prophesy (which can never come true) in order to achieve the islamic awakening goal of finding a rival to al-Qaa'idah (and salafi jihaadists in general) that is not of the sell-out type, nor is it salafi (despite their love of a hardcore salafi 'aqiidah).

    The reality that we should have learned by now though, is that sitting in the masjid, or online, talking about why al-Qaa'idah and the SJ movement have failed in this or that, or discussing their mistakes...is not going to bring about a better movement.

    We should also have learned that picking out those mistakes does not mean that you are going to be exempted for not upholding the individual obligations that 'Abdullaah 'Azzaam himself used to stress.

    We should have learned that if there is going to be any future khayr, it is only going to come out from the lands of jihaad where al-Qaa'idah and the SJ movement are currently king.

    So we should all just drop the kibr, do what we have to do, try to be sincere, and then maybe Allaah will choose one of us for the next stage (and then we can show how perfect we are and how we have all the answers for the Ummah).

    At the current rate,though, from what I can see... AZ and his cronies are not very good candidates.

    It seems they call to no hijrah, participating in voting, and to a hatred of all things salafi (except when it comes to the salafi 'aqiidah if that is possible). They also call to supporting "jihaad" so long as it is popular in the western media, and so long as it is not of the SJ persuasion. Then they compound this by saying they think the ikhwaan are stupid as well as the sell-out suruuris.

    If you put all of that together it sounds to me like an invitation to sit back in the west, eating hamburgers, and pretending to be helping the ummah by seeking knowledge (in order to win debates on the internet by force and in order to bash anything that talks regardless of their sincerity and the khayr they have brought the Ummah). Oh yeah, and a big dose of self-righteous: "I am always right, and everything else is stupid."

    Of course, I will now be attacked by AZ and his cronies with tons of hurled accusations and terrible speech (like their new favorite term munaafiq), without a reasonable chance of organized discussion of the actual issues (with plenty of attempts to dissect every word and plenty of ruckus for why each word isn't accompanied by its own 10 page footnote ruling out every possible meaning but the most obvious one).
     
  20. y-mughal

    y-mughal Muslim

    Apart from the issue of targetting civilians and the obvious pragmatism and general leadership qualities of Sh. Abdullah Azzam (rh) as you pointed out which I think we can say probably won't be seen again during our lives as he really was a once in a century type figure, is there any real difference between AQ and A.Azzam in terms of methodology and aims? I mean this is the same Abdullah Azzam who saw Jihad with the gun as the only way forward for our problems wasn't he? Wasn't he the same person who championed people like Marwan Hadid (rh) and Khalid al-Islambouli (rh)?

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    This is the same Marwan Hadid who with a bunch of youth with some grenades, guns and knives rebelled against the state! Yet what did they achieve apart from death? No need for me to explain who Khalid was. If somebody did what Marwan and co did today I'm sure there would be plenty of us on here to start a 100 page thread to say that what he did lacked Hikmah or he's just an AQ brainwashed hot headed kid acting on pure emotions. Yet these are the people Abdullah Azzam championed speaking so highly of their struggles and sacrifices in his في ظلال سورة التوبة and other pieces. Why don't we hold Abdullah Azzam guilty for promoting and championing hot headedness? Also I think we need to take off our 1980's goggles. It was easy to be a 'Abdullah Azzam lover' and cling to his coat tails in a Cold War world where Jihad was supported by the whole world against the Soviets, most importantly by America. But now when the Jihad is not in her interests but against her and her satellite states world wide it's a different ball game. Of course Allah knows best but do we really think Abdullah Azzam would get the same reception as he did then? If you didn't know the above and below quotes were from Abdullah Azzam you'd probably think there from some AQ magazine or OBL/the Dr himself! I think it's naive to think that if Abdullah Azzam was alive today he wouldn't be in Guantanamo or some Middle East dungeon if not already killed had he not been assasinated. I mean if he was deemed such a threat in 1989 when the 'world clash' hadn't even started that he had to be taken out then what about a world today where the war world wide is against Islam. Yes AQ have mistakes but I don't think it would be an exaggeration to claim that they are one of the very few groups if not the only one who are the closest (key word) in clinging onto and sharing A.Azzam's vision and legacy of a global Jihadic movement to liberate our lands in a practical way.


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    Also AZ I think you need to cut AQ and the Dr specifically some slack as you're out of date, I don't think they are what they were say pre-9/11 and in its immediate aftermath. Yes they still have mistakes but they have evolved and this could be seen with them inviting the west to Islam, offering of a truce etc. and this is amply demonstrated by the Dr recently when he addressed the Egyptian people and stated things like -

     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2012
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