Question Anti-Madhab scholars of the past and present and their statements against madhahib

Discussion in 'Fundamentals of Law (Usul)' started by Firebrand Mullah, Aug 2, 2012.

  1. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist


    As Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah,

    I have encountered several "Hanfees" who accuse Salafis in general of being against madhahib. Furtheremore, I know "ele edees" from Af-pak who openly call for abandonment of Hanafi madhab.

    In this regard I have a few questions I would like to find answers to:
    1. Did any scholar of the past openly advocate for the abandonment of the madhahib?
    2. Did any modern scholar openly advocate for the abandonment of the madhahib?
    3. Aside from some indo-pak-Afghan "ele edees", does any other group or movement openly advocate for the abandonment of the madhahib?
  2. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    As far as my very limited understanding goes Imam Shawkani was someone whom I'm lead to believe had similar views to present day ahlul hadith when it comes to taqlid,but I'd wait till someone more knowledgeable than myself can clarify that before you quote me on it.
  3. ChicagoSalafiyyah

    ChicagoSalafiyyah New Member

    The majority of the scholars as far as I know all started learning their fiqh from one of the 4 madahib then started making ijtihad later on including Shaykhul Islam Muhammad ibn Wahhab (rh). As far as laymen go though, madhabs arent even a big deal here in Chicago USA except with the Desai immigrant brothers from India/Pakistan. It exist with Arabs, African Americans, Africans, East Asian, European immigrant Muslims etc but isnt outwardly expressed. In Chicago, Shafi'is, Malikis, and Hanbalis do not even publically announce themselves as belong to such and such madhab. Hanafis from the subcontinent are the only ones here who are extremely proud to announce their madhab to others and profess themselves as being from, "such and such madhab". Everybody else is lowkey. You would not even know a person is Shafi'i, Maliki, or Hanbali in Chicago unless you asked, whereas Hanafi immigrant brothers from the subcontinent ALWAYS quick to bring up their madhab.

    The Shafi'is, Malikis, and Hanbalis are like those kids in school just sitting in the back relaxed. Hanafis are like those kids in school who write grafitti on desks and bathroom walls to let everyone know they were there. One of my buddies is Maliki, he led us in prayer today in Asr and you dont even know people are Maliki in Chicago until you see their salat. You dont even know someone is Hanbali or Shafi'i either unless you ask. You'll be talking to a Hanafi dude in the city and out of the blue he'll say something like, "I have 3 kids, one is in college. By the way Im Hanafi" and you never even asked him about it. That's the one thing I notice though, that's their "swag" I guess.
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2012
  4. Abdul Malik

    Abdul Malik New Member

    ^ lol i found that post funny.. Surprising to see someone with a screen name such as yours , somewhat endorse studying through a school.. or at least admitting scholars in the past did so . Not making fun of ur screen name or anything but it really gave me the impression that you are a madkhali-abukhaadeeja type Saalmm!!
  5. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    Here at IA, we've been working on this problem for a long time.
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  6. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    no answers?
  7. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    Ibn Hazm and the post-ibn Hazm Zahiris. Yusuf b. Tashfin, the famous Amir of the al-Muwahhidun state, went so far as to try and suppress the Maliki madhab and at times, Maliki books were burnt.
  8. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    Also, he called on people to take from Qur'an and Sunnah directly without regard for any madhab or opinions of scholars. He also commissioned the famous Zahiri hadith scholar, ibn al-Qattan al-Fasi, to make a compilation on Ijma entitled al-Iqna', so that then alongside the Qur'an itself and the famous Hadith collections, they would have ready references to go directly to the Qur'an, Sunnah and Ijma'.

    Incidentally, al-Iqna' is actually a very useful reference as he gleaned the Ijma'at cited by many great scholars in different books in one place. It is the most comprehensive classic reference on the topic.
    Abu'l 'Eyse likes this.
  9. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    so the anti-madhab stance is strictly a Dhaahiri thing? Is this why Nuh Keller and Deobandi fanatics always accuse Salafis and Hanabilah of being dhaahiris?
  10. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    They do accuse Salafis of that, and there's some truth to it, although not entirely. Many modern-day Salafis who have been heavily influenced by ibn Hazm don't go nearly as far as he did on the issue of rejecting Qiyas. Some of them do actually reject Qiyas in principle, like Sh. Muqbil al-Wadi'i and Sh. Badi al-Din al-Sindi al-Rashidi. Some of them don't go that far but are close to the Zahiris in much of their approach to understanding the texts.

    Do they accuse Hanbalis as well?
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  11. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    I have heard and read from some who claim that Hanbali madhab is not really a legitimate madhab. Probably out of hatred for the Athari school, Ibn Taymiyyah and his legacy and of course the Najdi dawah.

    I have noticed that Pakistani " ele edees " and their Afghan affliates in general have an ambiguous stance towards qiyas. When you ask them if they accept qiyas they say "yes, but ..." and then they try to confuse you with all sorts of constructions and analogies to make you believe that qiyas is not really applicable in any of the issues they differ with their deobandi counterparts.
  12. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    You didn't consider my response as an answer then? Oh well humble efforts are seldom acknowledged :rolleyes:
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  13. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    Well, you said the following:

    So according to your own statement, that wasn't really an answer but rather something you were led to believe.

    As far as I know, Shawkani merely opposed fanaticism for madhab. He did not categorically reject madhab.

    So far I have not seen anyone quoting Shawkani where he more or less attacks the institution of madhab in Islamic jurisprudence. So I can't accept that he is the primary motor behind the whole anti-madhab stance of some "ele edees" from our region.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  14. Tuwaylib

    Tuwaylib Anti-Defeatist

    Was Abdullah b. Yasin a Zahiri? Yahya b. Ibrahim found him in a Maliki enclave did he not?
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
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  15. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    Well without wanting to split hairs, my response although not definitive was an answer nevertheless, but regardless I think you'll find Imam shawkani was staunchly anti taqlid and was the one who revived the "take straight from Quran and sunnah" stance of the dhahiris who preceded him.
  16. Al-Majhool

    Al-Majhool <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Al-Imām Ibn Ḥazm رحمه الله was one of those great scholars of Islām who openly rejected the madhāhib and he was definitely not alone in this. Some other names have already been mentioned in this thread, but one has been omitted and it is Al-Shaykh Muḥammad Sulṭān al-Maʿṣūmī al-Khajnadī رحمه الله who wrote the book هل المسلم ملزم باتباع مذهب معين من المذاهب الأربعة which is also available in translation by the title of "The Blind Following of Madhhabs" where the shaykh also quotes — among others — Ibn Ḥazm concerning the madhāhib. (Kindly see the attached documents.)

    For those who are interested in Ibn Ḥazm there is an excellent English website on him and the people of the Ẓāhir: Ghuraba.Info

    There also exists a Ẓāhirī forum and an extensive thread dedicated to the collection of Arabic, English, German material concerning Ẓāhirī Fiqh on a German Islamic forum.
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  17. justabro

    justabro Salafi (Retd.)

    The Fast is Broken by Sin : Ghuraba.Info
    Was ibn Hazm a Qutubi?
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
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  18. Wild Wild West

    Wild Wild West لا تعتذر اليوم


    Not many dictators are really fasting then.
  19. Al-Majhool

    Al-Majhool <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Ibn Ḥazm passed away in 456 AH, so he preceded not only the martyred (inshāʾ Allāh) Sayyid Qutb but also other scholars like Ibn Taymiyyah, al-Nawawī, etc. — May Allāh have mercy on all of them. Keep in mind, however, that Ibn Ḥazm is indeed hard on the kuffār as well as other evil doers and Sayyid Qutb would probably have liked Ibn Ḥazm a lot if they had met: Leaderless Jihad

    To learn more about Ibn Ḥazm you can read some biographical information about the imām here: Ibn Ḥazm
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2012
  20. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    Is there a scholar of Dhaahiri madhab currently known as such? I heard that there is one in Saudi. I forgot his name.

    How come most extreme takfeeris online claim to be dhaahiris? My guess is that they just follow their own desires. But is there any specific reason you might know of?

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