Question Black Turban the Deviant Takfiri

Discussion in 'Islam in General' started by خالد, Jul 15, 2012.

  1. خالد

    خالد New Member

    Salaam Aleikum.

    For anyone who doesn't know, Black Turban is a talking donkey who lives in an African village and claims to be of Afghan/Yemeni descent. Here's what he shared with us before getting banned:

    -I even make takfir on the person who says it is fard to follow 1 of the 4 madhabs. i also make takfir on a person for confining islam to 4 madhabs. Link
    -What Abu Hanifa believed has no religious connotation in Islam... Link
    -I actually do not know if he [Abu Hanifa] followed a different prophet. Link
    -Yes it is [everything not mentioned in the Qur'an or hadith is 'haram']. Either by name or by classification. Link
    -Rejection of qiyas is part of tawhid. Link
    -Rafidhi, jahmi, ahlus sunna, khariji, murji... they are all the same. Link
    -Sunnis and shias are no different. They are both deviant sects. They both can kill each other and meet in hell fire. Link
    -In reality each and every sect will be in hell fire. This includes ahlus sunna wal jama. Link
    -Every aqidah book written is false. This includes tahawiya, wasitiya, tadmuriya, hamawiya, or any other ridiculous fiction written. Link
    -Anyone who fears Allah is an alim. It does not matter if the person knows only a couple of surahs and a handful of hadiths. Link
    -[Ijma] is batil and an evil bidah. Link
    -Anyone can give a fatwa if with proof. Link
    -Every muslim is a mujtahid... The concept of a certain people are mujtahid while other are not is an evil bidah. Link
    -Ikhtilaf only exists when people leave Islam... It is impossible to have ikhtilaf in deen. Link
    -In Islam, we do not know who the ulema are... We cannot go around calling people ulema. It is knowledge of unseen. Link
    -It is impossible to have different understanding of the ayahs of Allah. Link
    -Ijma has no authority as it lies outside of Quran and Sunna. Link
    -Islam says every muslim can do ijtihad. Link

    And a couple more from UI, where he actually performed takfir on Ahlus Sunnah:

    -Sunnis are no different from jews and Christians. Link
    -Whats with this pagan ahlus sunna talk? Link

    Once upon time though, he was a normal Muslim:

    -The sahabah had ijma on the disbelief of a person who does not pray... Link
    -I asked a mufti about this issue... Link

    Anyway this is my question: is BT actually a kafir or is he just a zindeeq?
    leo, 'Umar, abuhannah and 2 others like this.
  2. jazakAllah khair for ridding him. Reading his posts gave me vertigo to say the least. It could be he has lost he is just insane. That would be the third explanation.
  3. Firebrand Mullah

    Firebrand Mullah Hanfist Salfist Humblist

    He should be permanently banned.
  4. Abdul Malik

    Abdul Malik New Member

    wa alaykom salam, jazak Allah khairan ahki.. Btw you are a master of the [ Links ] . :)
  5. Tuwaylib

    Tuwaylib Anti-Defeatist

    His biggest fallacy is that he is too bloody thick to realize even in his hatred of scholars he has to rely on scholars for hadith.

    Oh, and I think he is insane.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012
    leo likes this.
  6. ummzof2

    ummzof2 New Member

    i think if people are rude to the degree he was the ban should have been either given if not warned him much earlier. However Alhamdulillaah that was the best thing done.
  7. al-Qanun

    al-Qanun أمريكي

    let's put a aside the individual known as Black Turban for a moment and discuss some of these statements. i agree with a lot of what he said though i would not word it the same way nor condemn and accuse those who did not agree with them. however, i would like you to argue your stance with proofs from the Qur'an and ahadith not with what scholars have said because Allah says when you differ then refer back to Allah and His Prophet, salAllahu 'alayhi was-sallam. if we keep referring back to scholars' opinions then i fear we will never come to an agreement.

    1. the view that it is obligatory to follow one of the four madhahib. firstly it is wrong to make this obligatory, so that those who refuse to do so are sinful and secondly wrong to restrict this to one particular madhhab.

    2. what Abu Hanifah says is not like what Allah and His Prophet salAllahu 'alayhi was-sallam says, so his opinions are not islam. we have the option to take them or reject them and this does not affect our islam at all.

    3. rejection of qiyas as tawhid. if this means to reject qiyas or any man's opinions as a hujjah, then i would say this strengthens ones tawhid. since they only rely on what Allah and His Prophet salAllahu 'alayhi was-sallam clearly said and not what a person assumes based on what Allah and His Prophet said. not that it is haram to use qiyas but that it does not prove anything because it is just speculation. so if anyone rejects this they are not accountable.

    4. the status of Ahlus-sunnah, as i said Ahlus-sunnah is just a label and does not mean these people are free from shirk and other innovations, same as salafiyyah. you may say well then they are not truly Ahlus-sunnah i'm not here to argue who is and who isn't Ahlus-sunnah. i believe the only true Ahlus-sunnah wal Jama'ah that are known to us are the sahabah because Allah and His Prophet salAllahu 'alayhi was-sallam verified their status and not anyone else's.

    5. books on 'aqidah. it's wrong to take these books as a furqan to establish who is and who isn't Ahlus-sunnah or upon the haqq. some of what is written in these books are only based on speculation and the author's own interpretations, it may or may not be true. not saying it's completely false but we can't be certain whether it's completely true. like some might say if anyone disagrees with what is written in kitab at-tawhid they are mushrikun or deviants. this is partisanship and may lead to shirk.

    6. the definition of 'ulema according to Allah are those who truly fear Allah, so they are most deserving of this title. however, 'ulema, linguistically speaking is anyone who possesses 'ilm. there's no distinction as to how much 'ilm they need to have to actually be called 'ulema. yet some have more than others and this is known but this does not mean that their knowledge benefits them as they still may be wicked, whereas someone who has little knowledge may be more pious because his knowledge does benefit him. so according to Allah he is the real 'alim whereas the former is only an 'alim linguistically.

    7. the concept of ijma is something that was disputed by scholars. some said it must be the ijma of the sahabah only, some say the salafus-salih, some say the whole ummah, both scholars and lay people. some scholars did not believe that it was even possible to prove ijma exists except in few cases. there's no ijma on what ijma means so it's not really a strong hujjah.

    8. anyone can and should exercise ijtihad according to their ability, and when we seek knowledge from the ahlul-dhikr this is actually a type of ijtihad as well because we are striving to find the truth. as supposed to just going along with the crowd, blindly following and being lazy.

    9. ikhtilaf usually exists with that which is uncertain or speculative. if the ruling is explicitly stated through the texts there should be no reason for ikhtilaf. for example cutting the hands of the thieves, there should be no ikhtilaf in this. however, regarding the obligation of niqab, there's going to be ikhtilaf on this because there's no explicit command in the Qur'an or ahadith that obligates niqab. all we know is that the women used to cover their faces but just because they did it does not necessarily make it waajib on the entire ummah. this is why scholars have different interpretations.
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2012

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