Fundamentals of shia religion

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by umar bin khatab, Mar 15, 2008.

  1. umar bin khatab

    umar bin khatab Anti Majos

    Ok since most of our discussion require of us to bring proves from Qur'an, let us discuss Qur'an first. And only when we finish with it, we can move forward to cover up other topics.

    So whats your believe regarding Qur'an
    1- Its complete and undistorted book.
    2- Its incomplete and undistorted book.
    3- Its incomplete and distorted book.

    Its very simple question which will not take even 2 secs to answer.
  2. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    thanks for opening the topic,

    option 1.
  3. Abu Nusaybah

    Abu Nusaybah Anti Ahlul-Bid'ah

    Beware of Taqiyyah!!!
  4. umar bin khatab

    umar bin khatab Anti Majos

    yes ahmedjbh remember no taqiyya is allowed.

    Good. So lets move on with the second question which is going to give the necessary support for your answer and free it from taqiyya.

    What do you say of a learned man who believes Allah tells lies and break his promises.
    1- Believer.
    2- Disbeliever
  5. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I would say he is saying an incorrect statement about Allah.
  6. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    There is a clear difference bewteen making an incorrect statement out of lack of knowledge with no evil intentions and deliberately lying about the creator of the universe, which is kufr. You have given a vague answer intentionally and we know why :D
  7. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    incorrect as usual leo, i dont feel qualified to go around making takfeer based on my own opinion.

    I fear Allah and I would never want to slander or spread fitnah.
  8. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    What is wrong in sending tabbarra on those who spread falsehood about Allah Almighty? Why are you reluctant? Is there someone more dear to you than Allah?
  9. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    like i said i would disagree with him, and condemn him.
  10. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    You still have a mild view of that cursed non-believer. Why don't you make a clear statement that such a person is dajjal, kafir and permanent resident of hellfire?
  11. zaid_ibn_ali

    zaid_ibn_ali Active Member

    well why not? if the companions are not spared, then who says it ends with them? Afterall Allah was well pleased with them, maybe this didnt go down well with shia?
  12. umar bin khatab

    umar bin khatab Anti Majos

    ahmedjbh, do you atleast agree that he has belied Ayats by such statement?

    yes or no.
  13. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    hang on, where have i called anybody a kafir?

    You rasie the companions up to a level beyind even that of the Prophet, you say they are above any critism or any defect.

    My view of the companions is that some were good, some were hypochrites and some were bad.
  14. Abu Nusaybah

    Abu Nusaybah Anti Ahlul-Bid'ah

    :eek: Give a Rafidi enough rope and he will hang himself.

    May Allah curse anyone who claims that any of the Sahabah (radi allah anhum ajma'een) were Munafiqeen. :mad:
  15. umar bin khatab

    umar bin khatab Anti Majos

  16. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    umar i dont understand what you are saying, can you re phrase it and ask again.
  17. umar bin khatab

    umar bin khatab Anti Majos

    Are you serious!!!
  18. umar bin khatab

    umar bin khatab Anti Majos

    Here let me make it clear to. When I asked you the first time, you chose option 1, i.e. Quran is complete and undistorted.

    What made you chose the first answer then? Was it just random selection or selection backing solid proof? And if there is proof for your answer than it must be the following ayats.

    Falsehood cannot come to it from before it or behind it (it is) sent down by the All-Wise, Worthy of all praise (Allah عز و جل). (Fussilat, 42)


    "Verily We: It is We Who have sent down the Dhikr (i.e. the Qur'an) and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)." (Al-Hijr, 9)

    So whoever says qur'an is incomplete and distorted didn't he belied those two verses?

    Yes or no?
  19. leo

    leo Well-Known Member

    ahmedjbn is in difficult position :D

    1. If he says that Quran is complete, then he has to send tabarra on all those ayatolls who spread falsehood about Quran being incomplete (astgh).

    2. Then obviously, he will be required to send tabarra on shia version of 4 years old naked imam, who as per shia sources will bring actual Quran, compiled by the fourth caliph (RA) supposedly.

    Really tough choice for him. He has to select one of the two, either Quran or ayatolls

    so lets see his choice (without taqiyyah) :D
  20. ahmedjbh

    ahmedjbh <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    You seem very confused i already answered option 1 on the first question, so why are you asking me again?

Share This Page