Hadeeth about 'Adams' and evolution.

Discussion in 'Hadith Sciences' started by asharee_salafi, May 5, 2007.

  1. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

    Ibn Arabi wrote in Futuhat al-Makkiyyah Vol.3:607: 'I recollected the saying of Holy Prophet to the effect that God has created hundred and thousands of Adams and between each Adam there is a period of seventeen hundred years.'[10]

    quoted from

    http://www.metanexus.net/magazine/ArticleDetail/tabid/68/id/7668/Default.aspx

    Does anyone know of this hadeeth.

    Of course, the clever Muslim who understands the philosophy of science would know that evolution wouldn't contradict the religion, provided one understand historical events related byd ivine text and natural history aswelll as the prupose/limits of science.

    ( pls, no replies like ' duhhh you errr tryna say errr my dad was a monkey duhhh errr).


    If anyone can help I would appreciate it.
     
  2. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    this doesnt sound right

    i have read many hadith about Adam, and read many ayats of Adam, not ONCE does Allah or in deed his messenger (peace be upon him) ever say more then one adam was created.

    He was the first man, and Hawa was created from him.

    Refer to Ibn Katheer's stories of the prophets. He present many hadith on how adam is made of dust. nothing or no where does it say adam evolved.

    this is all garbage, evolution is flawed.

    it seems like this author is saying that Allah could not create adam as a man and need him to evolve.

    ALSO, he makes it seem like WE humans are perfect? are we? really?

    if that was the case, wouldnt we be angels?

    not even the Messengers of Allah were saved from make small errors. because its human to err

    Allah always calls us CHILDREN OF ADAM, not CHILDREN OF ADAMS

    Evolution between spieces is fine, thats called adaptation. for example, we have brown bears in forests, and white (polar) bears at the north pole. why? because they adapted to the environment. and this is how Allah created them!

    as for evolution between one species to another, this is absolutely baseless and no evidence to proove this. until u find me a monkey with wings, i will never agree :p

    Also, you can find many hadith in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim where Adam is addressed as FATHER of Makind. not FAthers


    Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. (Aali Imran 3:59)


    http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=34508&ln=eng
     
  3. Abu_Abdillah2000

    Abu_Abdillah2000 New Member

    Remember that the books of the sufis like Ibn 'Arabi etc. are crammed full of "ahadith" that are either extremely weak or have no basis at all. The only reason that they are so widely accepted among certain circles is due to their blind devotion and following of people like Ibn 'Arabi etc. so they accept everything that is written by them. (I.e. They will say things like: "Well, ash-Shaykh al-Akbar Muhyid-Din Ibn 'Arabi wrote it, so it must be true! Are you saying that he was ignorant or something? Do you know more than him?") La hawla wa-la quwwata illa billah.
     
  4. Abu'l 'Eyse

    Abu'l 'Eyse Rep-manz

    so this guy is basically saying there were many adam's ('alayhi as-sallam) and so where they all Prophets as well?
     
  5. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    is this the same Ibn Arabi', the spanish sufi "scholar"?

    subhanAllah, can we really accept anything from him?

    wasnt he the one that would say "Glory be to me" and that Allah is in each of us?

    I thought the br was refering to another ibn arabi? because there's another one right?

    this is what some1 told me once anyway :S
     
  6. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    so would that mean there were many Hawas? (may Allah be pleased with her)
     
  7. Skillganon

    Skillganon The Serial Repper

    lol.

    Good question. If their was so many created Adams they must be sterile.

    I difinetely came from the progeny of the first man.
     
  8. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

    lol,

    pls be careful in how you read things

    lets understand the hadeeth first, if its from the Prophet.

    Imran please go to www.islamtoday.com

    ( im gonna have a bad repution as an evolutinist here 'oye you know that asharee_salafi guy, he's proper mashed up cos he accepts evolution!!' )


    Who is to say that before Allah put Adam AS one earth that there were no beings similar to humans?

    The creation of Adam was a historical event, narrated by divine texts, hence science, by its nature says nothing about it.

    Who is to say that before Adam AS there were no other species and Allah inserted Adam into the record of species?

    The point being is that we believe in combustion theory right? we beleive that fire burns,

    yet wait!

    Ibraheem AS was in the fire but he didn't burn...this is because this was ahistorical event narated by divine text, it was alsoa miracle, but why should Muslims now refute combustion theory...

    Like wise why should a Muslim refute fluid dynamics?
    Musa AS had Allah to split the sean for him, that was a hitorical event , a miracle narated by divine text.

    Remember as Muslims lets not be simple minded, Allah created however he chooses.
    Sure evolution can be wrong, but it can equally be right.

    And has no impact upon aqeedah.
     
  9. gag order

    gag order Anti-Troll

    first of all, summarise your current views on evolution
     
  10. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    why do u want me to go to that site?

    please send me the link for the hadith

    Jazaka'Allahu khayrn
     
  11. joefso

    joefso New Member

    wa yazidu fil khalqi ma ya shaa...... this quran verse is one of the most mainstay , regarding to evolution ... the Almighty constantly improves the creation, changing, modifying and creating. Science can only look where the light is shining looking for the coin, religion takes you beyond that.

    This is a bit offtopic, but sometimes things are harder to understand then we think, I was reading this poem, written by Jaluldien Rumi, it implied that he believed in re-incarnation, hence, it was explained by the non muslim translators(probably some orientalist scholar) like that, but in reality it means something different.

    an example: Hadrat Shams Tabrez(RA) who was the teacher of Hadrat Rumi(RA) wrote:

    I am born of seven mothers and nine fathers;
    I desire both of them(i.e. the mothers and fathers) to become one,since i am an old lover.

    This makes no sense to me or you or most aalims of today, hence takes an Awliya Allaah to explain it.

    What it means is, the Seven mothers denote all 4 elements(water,air;earth and fire) and the 3 types of organisms(solids,vegetation and animals) taken together,while the nine fathers signifies the nine heavens.
    All in all it means that all sciences that belong to the higher and lower worlds are integrated in the human frame.

    Whem Rumi(RA) wrote, it was in the same highly spiritual sense,full of wisdom.
    Only those with high spirituality can comprehend such meanings.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  12. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    Because this is what the Ulema have said. if anything, there were problem jins that lived on earth, but no other human like creation:-

    And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allâh) said: "I know that which you do not know." (Al-Baqarah 2:30)

    "There are old traditions about the angels before the creation of Adam. According to Ibn Qatadah, it was said that the angels were informed about the creation of Adam and his progency by the jinn who lived before Adam. Abdullah Ibn Umar said that the jinn had existed for about 2000 years before Adam and then shed blood. Therefore Allah sent on them an army of angels that drove them out to the depths of the seas. Ibn Abi Hatim narrated from Ali jafar Al Baqer that the angels were informed that man would cause wickedness and shed blood on earth. It was also said that they knew that no one would be created on earth who would not be wicked and shed blood.

    Whether or not these traditions are correct, the angels did understand that Allah would create a vicegerent on earth. Allah the Almighty announced that HE was going to create a human being out of clay, that HE would mold him and blow His spirit into him and then the angels should prostrate before him."
    [Taken from the Stories of the Prophets by Ibn Katheer - http://www.anwary-islam.com/prophet-story/adam.htm]

    no1 said there wasnt any other species, we are simply saying Adam was the first man, and he was created from clay and not evolved into man from a monkey!!!!!!!

    O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allâh is that (believer) who has At-Taqwa [i.e. one of the Muttaqûn (pious - see V.2:2). Verily, Allâh is All-Knowing, All-Aware. (Al-Hujurat 49:13)

    "Allah the Exalted declares to mankind that He has created them all from a single person, `Adam, and from that person He created his mate, Hawwa'. From their offspring He made nations, comprised of tribe, which include subtribes of all sizes. It was also said that `nations refers to non-Arabs, while `tribes refers to Arabs. Various statements about this were collected in an individual introduction from the book, Al-Inbah, by Abu `Amr Ibn `Abdul-Barr, and from the book, Al-Qasad wal-Amam fi Ma`rifah Ansab Al-Arab wal-`Ajam. Therefore, all people are the descendants of `Adam and Hawwa' and share this honor equally. The only difference between them is in the religion that revolves around their obedience to Allah the Exalted and their following of His Messenger . After He forbade backbiting and belittling other people, alerting mankind that they are all equal in their humanity" [Tafsir of Ibn Katheer of the same ayat - http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=49&tid=49885]

    my dear brother,

    we dont refute evolution theory because we dont like it, but because it doesnt make sense and has no evidence!

    do u think a chameleon, who's skin changes colour every time its in a different environment, has any idea its skin is changing colour? ofcourse not! this is all from Allah!

    to say "evolution" helped species choose the best features so as to live in an environment is like saying there is another force control all this!

    Allah does not need evolution to build creation, for Him, its a matter of BE! and it is!

    She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me." He said: "So (it will be) for Allâh creates what He wills. When He has decreed something, He says to it only: "Be!" and it is. (Aali Imran 3:47)


    as for ur analogy, its very odd and doesnt make sense.

    its like saying, "well, if shaytan is made of fire, how will he be punished in hell?"

    that miracle can be explained using science!

    there is no evidence for evolution, and it undermines the whole Nature of Allah, because we believe Allah is the Creator,

    dont think we are simple minded, we are just not naive and we follow reality of life, not fantasies of some1 who found some animals on an island and got abit excited!

    Allah knows Best
     
  13. suhail

    suhail New Member

    Why do we have to even understand all this talk. I have heard and read so many crazy stories of shamz tabrez that i dont even know what to say. Sorry brother but these things are of no use.

    Jazakallah Khair
    Suhail
     
  14. Skillganon

    Skillganon The Serial Repper

    The article he is talking about is this one.

    http://islamtoday.com/showme2.cfm?cat_id=29&sub_cat_id=792

    It has nothing got to do with mutiple created Adams.
     
  15. joefso

    joefso New Member

    what about a butterfly, didn't it evolve? I don't recall reading that Islam is anti evolution. Islam just doesn't prove monkey > human. Other evolution is possible.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  16. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    hmmm....

    1) 4 elements?

    rumi must have been a real magical guy !

    a) Man - create from dust

    Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was. (Aali Imran 3:59)

    b) Jinn, created from fire (smokeless)

    And the jinn, We created aforetime from the smokeless flame of fire. (Al-Hijr 15:27)

    c) other creatures, from water

    Have not those who disbelieve known that the heavens and the earth were joined together as one united piece, then We parted them? And We have made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (Al-Anbiya 21:30)




    2) solid, veg, animals?

    lol, so a solid is a living thing now? what about liquid? gas? plasma? have u even herd of plasma?

    3) 9 heavens?

    And indeed We have created above you seven heavens (one over the other), and We are never unaware of the creation. (Al-Mu'minun 23:17)

    maybe he lost count?


    Allah KNows Best
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2007
  17. joefso

    joefso New Member

    1mran think about what your saying. For you have just proven what I was saying.
     
  18. 1mran

    1mran New Member


    like i said, there is a difference between evolution and adaptation!

    and Dragon flies didnt Evolve!

    i gave the example of the bear! polar bear is white, other bear is brown, polar bear lives in the cold icey places, other bear in the forrest, hence the colour is a defence and has other functions,

    but this is how Allah created them.

    i'll give u another example,

    our Jaws (humans) have become smaller. why? because we cook oour meat better, so we chew less. thus because of that, our jaws became smaller. that is also evolution, but is called adaptation.

    there is no evidence of species changing into another one. and all evidences people have brought have ALWAYS been lies.

    And Allah knows best
     
  19. 1mran

    1mran New Member

    pelase explain...
     
  20. joefso

    joefso New Member


    You right, dragonfly's didn't evolve. I was trying to discuss evolution and Islam. It is all very well to speak of the "evidence of evolution," but if the theory is thorough- going, then human consciousness itself is also governed by evolution. This means that the categories that allow observation statements to arise as "facts", categories such as number, space, time, event, measurement, logic, causality, and so forth are mere physiological accidents of random mutation and natural selection in a particular species. Homo sapiens. They have not come from any scientific considerations, but rather have arbitrarily arisen in man by blind and fortuitous evolution for the purpose of preserving the species. They need not reflect external reality, "the way nature is", objectively, but only to the degree useful in preserving the species. That is, nothing guarantees the primacy, the objectivity, of these categories over others that would have presumably have arisen had our consciousness evolved along different lines, such as those of more distant, say, aquatic or subterranean species. The cognitive basis of every statement within the theory thus proceeds from the unreflective, unexamined historical forces that produced "consciousness" in one species, a cognitive basis that the theory nevertheless generalizes to the whole universe of theory statements (the explanation of the origin of species) without explaining what permits this generalization. The pretences of the theory to correspond to an objective order of reality, applicable in an absolute sense to all species, are simply not compatible with the consequences of a thoroughly evolutionary viewpoint, which entails that the human cognitive categories that underpin the theory are purely relative and species-specific. The absolutism of random mutation and natural selection as explanative principles ends in eating the theory. With all its statements simultaneously absolute and relative, objective and subjective, generalizable and ungeneralizable, scientific and species-specific, the theory runs up on a reef of methodological incoherence.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2007

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