Hadith of Dipping fly in a drink ???? Unscientific and unhealthy

Discussion in 'Hadith Sciences' started by Adil Husain, Sep 1, 2012.

  1. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    [h=4]Salamun alaikum forum Members .


    BUKHARI HADITH : VOLUME , BOOK 54, NUMBER 537:
    Narrated Abu Huraira:


    The Prophet said "If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink)
    , for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease."

    Diseases transmitted by flies
    -Typhoid
    -Anthrax
    -Cholera (watery Diarrhea)
    -Dysentery (bloody diarrhea)
    -Viral Hepatitis (Disease of liver)
    -egg of helminths ( worms of intestine)
    -Amoebiasis (ulcer causing disease of intestine leading to amoebic dysentery )
    -Enteroviruses

    And many more not mentioned by me here ....

    Information on this disease and their link with flies can be easily found in medical books and/or on Authenticated Sites.


    Some people and Internet sites Claim that Antibiotics(chemicals which inhibit bacterial growth or kill them) may be found on the surface of fly and is under research to defend this hadith .

    -However it has not been conformed that Antibiotics are actually present and can be helpful or not , but the role of housefly in spreading such deadly disease is confirmed and accepted all over the medical community.

    I being a medical student finds it hard to accept this hadith.


    [/h] -Even if Antibiotics are confirmed on the surface of fly , it will be in very less amount and if it is diluted in the drink , it is very unlikely that they will cause any benefit compared to bacteria , viruses and eggs of worms which they carry with them. Bacteria and viruses have a capacity to divide/multiply themselves and even in small amount they can be harmful.


    -If antibiotics on surface of fly were of any use , they would have not caused any harm to us , irrespective of whether antibiotics on them are discovered or not.


    -The presence of disease in one wing and its cure on another wing cannot be explained scientifically by any scientific explanation.


    I would appreciate any Valid explanation , which does not force me to compromise with any scientific established fact.

    Thank you :)



    [h=4][/h]
     
  2. abuhannah

    abuhannah Well-Known Member

    Adil before folks reply I take it you are a Muslim who prays 5 times a day and not a Muslim by name only type person.

    Its only fair to let folks know where your coming from,you doubt Hadith,do you doubt Al Quran,The Nabii s.a.w and other Islamic sources or is it just this one Hadith?..
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2012
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  3. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    Salamun alaikum Abuhannah , Here are your answers ,I am a muslim , i believe in 5 prayers per day, I comes from India , my doubt about this hadith came when i read it on Bukhari pdf which i have on my PC , No i do not doubt Al Quran , because i did'nt came across any such thing in the Quran which is difficult to accept in the light of Science. There are 'some' more hadith which are difficult to accept by me , but i think i'll get some valid answers here , because i want to get rid of this confusion from my head.I always feel pleasurable to acknowledge the perfectness of Quran in the light of science. Thank you
     
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  4. abuhannah

    abuhannah Well-Known Member

    Walaikomsalam wr wb,bro don't you have ulemah in India,cant you ask one there?..
     
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  5. IbnMuhammed

    IbnMuhammed Human

    Islam is not judged by science, its the other way around.. Scientific theories are constantly changing.
    Besides, you being a medical student (Like how you put it in blue), and not accepting it is not much, since people with the title "Dr." have published works saying it is scientifically accurate lol
     
  6. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    I do not have access to Ulemas here , thats why i opted to make my Doubt public so that someone may solve it .
     
  7. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    IbnMuhammad , I do not know whether you will be satisfied with my reply or not but the explanations regarding this Hadith which i came cross were not valid if you ponder on it closely , I showed to this to my fellow Muslim mates(within medical school) and they all were confused.
     
  8. abuhannah

    abuhannah Well-Known Member

    There's nothing to solve.You have plenty of ulemah in India,which city are you based in?..
     
  9. sanakhudhu

    sanakhudhu New Member

    The false religion of 'science' made you reject the words of the true and merciful prophet (salallahu alayhi wasalam). Woe to you.
     
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  10. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    Salaam alaikum 16:125 Quran "Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knows best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance" Thank you
     
  11. mansoor2009

    mansoor2009 Active Member

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  12. Walaykum salam wa rahmatullah wabarakatuhu

    Let us assume for argument sake that scientifically there is no way to prove the cure is in the other wing. Does the saying of the best of the creation have to be subjected to science? I will make a few points now.

    1. Which is harder to believe in, the moon split, the wahi came to the Prophet (sallAllah u alayhi wasallam) from above the Seven heavens or the cure of is in the other wing of the fly? While we are on that which is harder to believe, that the Prophet went on Miraaj or he said that the cure is in the other wing?
    2. Why did the Sahaba just accept this and implement it in their lives and relay us this information in the hadith? Why didn't they say ya RasoolAllah! it cannot be possible? What drove to believe in this? Can you answer that Adil?
    3. IF scientists today or in the future do figure out that yes a cure is in the other wing of the fly and we should dip it, would you follow it? If you would then you should subject everything in Islam to this test. Which I assure you will fail in doing and you will be left with no belief in the Quran and Sunnah.
    4. your question shows a lack of eeman to say the least.
    5. There were a few men that came to Madinah and they had a disease. The Prophet (sallAllah u alayhi wasallam) prescribed camel's milk and urine as medicine for them. They drank it and they were cured. Did they or the Sahaba have a problem with what he told them?
    6. Are you better then the Sahabah who had no problem with it and accepted it and practiced it?

    So you can see there is clearly a problem with the way you want this subject to be answered.
     
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  13. abumuwahid

    abumuwahid <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Maybe the OP is from the pervezi - Qur'an only sect.
     
  14. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    Dear Mansoor2009 , I have seen this journal before and in the post i discussed about this journal and its invalid claims which are will be rarely accepted by someone who studies medicine.You can try it if you know any Muslim medico.
     
  15. abu hafs

    abu hafs Anti-Shirk

  16. Adil Husain

    Adil Husain New Member

    Salaam alaikum ,
    I will reply to your each point one by one with due respect.

    1) We believe in the miracles of prophets and Birth of Jesus without a father which occurred in Past , but the Commands which is used in our day to day life should be scientifically valid.We cannot maintain double standards by accepting dipping of the fly and then after some time , advice the patient (suffering from diseases mentioned above in the post) to not to eat fly exposed food. Recently a Cholera Outbreak occured and more than 200 people died.
    I am not an atheist , I believe in Miracles , for example : I believe in creation of Earth by Allah (past event) , but it will be hard to accept by me that earth is flat (present situation).

    2)The Knowledge of Peoples regarding the Diseases and vectors which transmit them developed nearly 100 to 200 years back (After invention of microscopes and other techniques) It is likely that Sahabas was unaware of such scientific facts.

    3)It is established fact that diseases are transmitted by flies (just like smoking causes Lung cancer) , It is very simple , Suppose you have worms in your stomach , they will lay eggs in you and the eggs will come out with your stools/excreta/toilets , fly will sit on it , collect the eggs on their sticky hairs and legs , sit on the food item , if someone eat it , Microscopic eggs will enter their body and form a new worm ( in this way life cycle of worm is completed).
    Suppose cure of disease is present on wings , they will not led to disease Irrespective of whether they are discovered or not.

    4)Allah Knows best whether i am doing Good or bad by reasoning this.

    5)I cannot comment on this because i have not studied much on 'what will happen if someone drinks a urine of camel?'

    6)Allah Knows Best.

    With due respect ,
    Adil:)
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012

  17. walaykum salam

    1 a. So Allah's Commands need to be scientifically valid? So in essence Allah's Will is subject to science. Your whole argument is built on this premise. Science cannot accept that a baby boy was born without a father. Its scientifically impossible. And that is where we believe it happened and Allah can do as He Wills. He can change his Creation and the Laws that He put to govern that Creation. He can change scientific laws that you take as a religion besides what Allah has revealed. Science changes. Islam does not. So again why cant this be a miracle of the Prophet (sallAllah u alayhi wasallam)? That he told us that the cure is on the other wing? Surely if you can believe the information that the Prophet gave regarding Jesus (alayhissalam) is true, then why would you have a hard time with this particular hadeeth?
    1 b. Regarding Commands Allah Ordered the Children of Israel not to hunt on the Sabath. What is the scientific reason behind this command? Allah Ordered us to stone the married adulter/adultress. What is the scientific reason behind this command? All humans and Jinns can spend a lifetime and not come up with an answer. And such an endeavor will not benefit them in the least on the Day of Judgment. Why should we pray five times a day. Did the Sahaba not think about this? Were they not smart enough to figure out the scientific reasoning behind it? Answer: No this was of no benefit and will be of no benefit to us.
    2. Oh so you know better then the Sahaba. They were being schooled by the Prophet (sallAllah u alayhi wasallam) and they did not know that the fly sits on feces and is a dirty insect? They did not even hesitate to accept this? Can you explain that? I will spare you the agony. Answer: They believed him and what he brought was the truth so they did not need to question it. For if they did, they would see its consequences just as some of them did when they disobeyed the Prophet (sallAlah u alayhi wasallam) on the day of Uhud and many lives were lost by not sticking to his command.
    3. Again read above. Its a miracle.
    4. It shows a lack of eeman because you are subjecting Islam to the scientific religion. Your faith in science is stronger then your faith in Islam. Cognitive dissonance. You cannot reject Islam because you believe in it in some form but you cannot reject it because you believe in science. Circular logic.
    5. Refer above. Same arguments.
    6. And Indeed Allah Knows Best. He Knows us and He Knows whats best for us and that is why he revealed the Quran and sent the Sunnah to explain it on the greatest of Creation. If you have a hard time accepting anything in any one of these then that is your problem and you will be answerable for that for indeed we have tried to make the truth clear to you in just these two pages.
     
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  18. abul hafsa

    abul hafsa formerly 'dragon'

    Adil, try to understand this:

    If there is something from the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam or Allaah that has been proven to be authentic, yet we do not understand it in the light of our limited knowledge, then we simply acknowledge that Allaah knows best and move on. You being a med student or reminding of us of diseases spread by flies is useless. Even a junior school kid knows these things nowadays.

    As for others posting proofs supporting the hadeeth, jazakumullah khayr, but the problem here is the mental attitude and approach. This idea that the texts of Quran and Sunnah should be subjected to reason and judged by our pathetic, limited intellect, should be erased first and we need to grasp what it actually means to have imaan.

    Adil, when the kuffaar asked Abu Bakr radiallahu 'anh what he thought of someone claiming to have travelled to Aqsa, through the heavens and back again in one night, he thought it would have to be a made up story. But when he was told it was the Prophet sallallahu 'alayhi wasallam who said it, he immediately accepted it, in the face of the kuffaar. This is imaan.

    I suggest you spend your time in better ways. How confident are you that you understand the fiqh of tahaarah or salaah? That knowledge will be more beneficial for you, believe me. It's important for you to acknowledge to yourself that our little minds cannot grasp everything, even in the seen world, nevermind unseen.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  19. SixthMughal

    SixthMughal <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    BRILLIANT

    the problem with most of "average"(read less eemaan) muslims is that they doubt so quickly. May Allaah save me and all Muslims from this.

    Surah Hujurat 15: "believers are only those who have attained to faith in God and His Apostle and have left all doubt behind, and who strive hard in God’s cause with their possessions and their lives: it is they, they who are true to their word!"

    and its not just about science. some people go the emotional way. i have a cousin (who i meet once an year max) who stopped eating meat on eid ul zuha( they eat chicken on that day ) saying its torture. and there are many other 'educated and scientific" brothers who could have gone astray had dr. zakir naik not proved that zabiha is painless or whatever. so thanks to him otherwise.... i mean we are so enamoured by the west and their culture that whatever THEY say we dont doubt but use it as proof against Quran and hadith.

    as the brother abdul muqeet said, its weak eemaan. our response must be "Same'naa wa ataw'naa" ( We hear and we obey)!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2012
  20. ranwar

    ranwar New Member

    I think this is a very interesting discussion and goes deeper than the wing of a fly! It is about when was the Prophet making a statement that was divine in origin and a command and when he was making observations and comments based on his own knowledge where he could be right or wrong. The islam web article on this link makes an important point clearly-http://islamweb.us/what-is-sunna.html

    "Acceptance of a hadith report as embodying authentic sunna did not necessarily assure its legal application. Jurists com&shy;monly distinguished, for example, between the personal hab&shy;its and preferences of the Prophet (al-sunna al-[SUP]e[/SUP]adiyya) and actions related to his Prophetic mission (sunnat al-huda). The former gave rise, at best, to recommended actions, while the latter were legally binding. This distinction is reflected in a tradition that recounts an occasion on which Muhammad gave bad advice to some date farmers. When confronted with the unfortunate results he replied, "I am only human. If I command something related to religion, then obey, but if I order you to do something on the basis of my own opinion, then I am only a human being"



     

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