Important Hamza Yusuf Justification of Kalam Cosmilogical Argument

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by levelz77, May 20, 2012.

  1. levelz77

    levelz77 New Member


  2. TheUmmahStridesForward

    TheUmmahStridesForward It was written...

    Shallow sophistication, or maybe a better word for it would be hollow complexity.

    "I studied Aristotelian logic with West African scholars"

    Well there are the seeds that sprouted into what we have with Hamza Yusuf now.
  3. Hideo Kuze

    Hideo Kuze <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Or how about foolish?
  4. Aboo Shayba


    Interesting discussion
  5. al-Azkabani

    al-Azkabani Formerly 'Salah ad-Din'

    mashaallah, very funny guy
  6. qadri

    qadri Atharist

    Hamza Yusuf Hanson lying thru his teeth : "....there was a school called the Mutazilite - that are the rationalists - that argued religion has to be consistent with reason at all times and they took an Aristotelian position that if it could not be justified rationally then we would reject it and the counter to that were two schools, one was the traditional school that argued that reason doesn't have any place and that we simply accept what's been given to us, and the intellect would lead us astray. This school was a very small minority that now found a modern version..."

    Hamza Yusuf Hanson is saying the traditional school ( Salaf us Salih ) who opposed Aristotelian ( Ilm al-Kalam of Mutazilites ) were a minority. Which books does this ignoramus study ?

    Let us see the minority which Mr. Hanson is speaking about:
    قال الامام الحافظ زين الدين ابن رجب الحنبلي – رحمه الله تعالى –: روى ذم الكلام وأهله عن مالك وأبي حنيفة وأبي يوسف ومحمد وابن مهدي وأبي عبيد والشافعي والمزني وابن خزيمة وذكر ابن خزيمة النهي عنه عن مالك والثوري والأوزاعي والشافعي وأبي حنيفة وصاحبيه وأحمد وإسحاق وابن المبارك ويحيى بن يحيى ومحمد بن يحيى الذهلي وروى السلمي أيضا النهي عن الكلام وذمه عن الجنيد وإبراهيم الخواص فتبين بذلك أن النهي عن الكلام إجماع من أئمة الدين من المتقدمين من الفقهاء وأهل الحديث والصوفية وأنه قول أبي حنيفة ومالك والشافعي وأحمد وإسحاق وأبي عبيد وغيرهم من أئمة المسلمين ....................
    [reported by Hafidh Ibn Rajab al-Hanbali in Fath al-Bari bi Sharh Sahih al-Bukhari 101+/5 Dar Ibn Jawzi first edition.]

    Translation: al-Imam al-Hafidh Zayn al-Din ibn Rajab al-Hanbali - rahimahullah ta`ala - said: It is reported that the blameworthiness of Kalam and It's adherents from Malik, Abu Hanifa, Abu Yusuf, Muhammad,
    Ibn Mahdi, Abu Ubaiyd, al-Shafi, al-Muzani, Ibn Khuzaiymah. Ibn Khuzayma mentioned the prohibition of (involving oneself in kalaam) from Malik, al-Thawri, al-Awzaee, al-Shafi, Abu Hanifa and his two companions, Ahmad, Ishaq, Ibn al-Mubarak, Yahya ibn Yahya, Muhammad ibn Yahya al-Dhuhli.
    And al-Sullami reported the blameworthiness of and prohibition of entering into kalaam from al-Junayd and Ibrahim al-Khawass, thereby clarifying that the prohibition of entering into kalam is a matter of consensus of the Imams of the religion, among them the predecessors from amongst the jurists, the people of Hadith and the Sufis, and [the prohibition of entering into kalaam] is the position of Abu Hanifa, Malik, al-Shafi, Ahmad, Ishaq, Abu Ubaiyd and others from among the Imams of the Muslims.

    You can see majority of scholars from the fuqaha, muhaditheen, sufis all rejected Ilm al-Kalam. Numerous books have been written refuting and exposing the Aristotelian heresy but according to Hamza Yusuf Hanson all these were a small minority. See more books and quotations here

    May be it is time Hamza Yusuf Hanson should start defending himself from the Takfir fatwa on his head by Maturidis and Asharis here:
    Last edited: May 20, 2012
  7. Hideo Kuze

    Hideo Kuze <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    That's some hefty criticism brother?

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