How many wives did 'Ali ibn Abi Talib (r.a) have?

Discussion in 'Sirah and Sahabah' started by DhulQarNain, Oct 2, 2009.

  1. DhulQarNain

    DhulQarNain براهيم الامزيغي

    'Ali said: The Prophet gave me a silken dress as a gift and I wore it.
    When I saw the signs of anger on his face, I cut it into
    pieces and distributed it among my wives."
    [Sahih Bukhari vol.3 #784]

    If i'm not mistaken, the Prophet once became angry with 'Ali for wanting to marry another woman, since this will cause distress for his daughter Fâtima (r.a)?

    Jazâkallâh in advance...
     
  2. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    The Prophet (saw) said he does not want him to marry the daughter of HIS ENEMY, he did not say that he is not allowed to marry any woman other than Fatimah (Ra).

    Althugh it is better not to marry more than one wife, Ali (ra) like other Muslims was allowed to do so.
     
  3. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I have never heard of this.
     
  4. DhulQarNain

    DhulQarNain براهيم الامزيغي

    Jazâkallâh bro!
    But did he have more than one wife?
    If yes, who?

    ma'a-sallaam!
     
  5. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>


    And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
    (Qur'an, Surah al-Nisa Ayah 3)


    So if we cant deal justly with them, we should marry ONLY ONE.

    Now read this Ayah:


    Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish. But turn not altogether away, leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
    (Qur'an, Surah al-Nisa Ayah 129)

    So we CAN NOT deal justly with them.

    So Allah tells us if we cant deal justly we should marry one, and then says no matter how much we wish to deal justly with them we CANT.

    The obvious conclusion is that we should marry only ONE wife


    However if someone marries more than one, then they may be FORGIVEN as stated in the Ayah.

    This proves that it is much better to only marry one, and if you marry more than one you will be FORGIVEN if you do good (since you will be forgiven it is obviously not a good thing).
     
  6. IbnShaykh

    IbnShaykh 'Mr Gangster Man'

    And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
    (Qur'an, Surah al-Nisa Ayah 3)

    This refers to treating them equally materially and economically.

    Ye will not be able to deal equally between (your) wives, however much ye wish. But turn not altogether away, leaving her as in suspense. If ye do good and keep from evil, lo! Allah is ever Forgiving, Merciful.
    (Qur'an, Surah al-Nisa Ayah 129)

    This is refering to the man not being able to treat them equally in terms of love and sexual intercourse. A man cannot be held responsible for his heart and desires.

    Thus the first refers to the tangible and treating them equally in what a man can control the other is refering to what is out of a mans power.
     
  7. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Can you explain how you came to this conclusion?
    Where does it say that the first is about economically supporting them and the second is about love or sex?

    In fact first Ayah itself says that it is better to marry only one:

    And if you fear that you cannot act equitably towards orphans, then marry such women as seem good to you, two and three and four; but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper, that you may not deviate from the right course.
    (Qur'an, Surah al-Nisa Ayah 3)

    And the other Ayah makes it more clear
     
  8. IbnShaykh

    IbnShaykh 'Mr Gangster Man'

    According to the mufasireen akhee as this ayah confused me at first however I looked into it.

    but if you fear that you will not do justice (between them), then (marry) only one or what your right hands possess; this is more proper

    The ayah says, if you cannot do justice (that is economically and materially then only marry one). So yes in that context it is better to only marry one but that isn't the general meaning of the ayah, it is a condition however.

    And for us to accept your understanding we would have to accept that Allaah, contradicts himself, and that there is sin in something that Allaah has allowed. We also have to accept the prophet saws himself as well as the sahabah were sinful but will be forgiven for it? How can the prophet saws be accused of sin? How can you accuse Ali of sin and say 'but he will be forgiven'?
     
  9. Ayman bin Khaled

    Ayman bin Khaled الفقير الى الله

    This is indeed one of the most distorted translations that I came across since the one who translated it does not know the basics! It is known that Ali only was married to Fatima (رضي الله عنها).

    The actual translation is "My women" and they are his wife, his mother and his cousin. Yet, he gave to his wife and advised her to distribute it as al-hafith mentioned.

    Wallahu A'lam
     
  10. Ayman bin Khaled

    Ayman bin Khaled الفقير الى الله

    why did you chose the "should" and not the "MUST"?!

    Allah stated "not to marry but one" in a commandment form so on what basis it became should not must?

    Your oddness never end indeed when you submit to your own reasoning and analysis to our Relgion which upon you reproduce your own deen.
     
  11. DhulQarNain

    DhulQarNain براهيم الامزيغي

    Jazâkallâhu khayran yaa shaykh!
    So the original Arabic word would be "nisaa"?
    Can any of the brothers post the original Arabic of this hadith?
    Again, jazâkallâh dear brother ayman for responding. (smile)
     
  12. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I know some have said this but based on what evidence?
    Was it just their opinion or is it backed up by evidence in the verses themselves?

    When it says it is more proper, it can mean either way. It COULD mean what you said, but the other possiblity is that it means it is more proper either way (wether you fear you may not do justice, or if you dont have such a fear).

    Then the other Ayah makes it more clear that we cant do so no matter how much we want to.

    It is not a contradiction. Both verses say it is better to have one wife. The second verse is simply more explicit



    It is forgiven so it no longer counts as a sin. For example this is what happened with Mut'ah marriage.

    Mut'ah was allowed for a short period of time, so anyone who did Mut'ah at that time was forgiven and was allowed, though it was better if they didnt do it. (now Mut'ah counts as Zina).

    As narrated by Ibn Mas'oud (ra), it was allowed after the some of the Sahabah (who were young and had recently become Muslim and couldnt control their sexual desires) asked the Prophet (saw) to allow them to castrate themselves, but then instead they were allowed to do Mut'ah. Later Mut'ah was abrogated and became Haram forever.

    Having more than one wife is like Mut'ah during the time in which it was allowed.

    And Allah desires that He should forgive you (mercifully), but those who follow their lusts desire that you should deviate a great deviation
    (Surah al-Nisa verse 27)

    (This Ayah comes 3 verses after verse 24 which abrogated the verse of Mut'ah marriage).

    So Allah allowed Mut'ah marriage to forgive those of the Sahabah, but those who follow their lusts (Shias) desire that we deviate a great deviation (Shias want us to go around having sex with prostitutes and have girl friends, they claim Mut'ah is still allowed and have almost no restrictions when it comes to Mut'ah, they say you can do it even if you are already married, with anyone... they say it can even be done with children, girls BELOW the age of 9).


    So anyways having more than one wife is allowed, meaning that we are forgiven if we do it, but it is better to have only one.





    That Allah may forgive you your sins of the past and the future, and complete His favor on you, and guide you on the straight path
    ( Surah Al-Fath )
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
  13. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I honestly dont understand what you are saying.

    "Should" or "Must"... what difference does that make in our discussion???
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2009
  14. IbnShaykh

    IbnShaykh 'Mr Gangster Man'

    I believe the mufasireen of the ummah over an unknown on a forum who has neither Arabic or 'ilm.

    I ask Sh Ayman to deal with your confusion and maybe you will understand Insha'allah.
     
  15. Tuwaylib

    Tuwaylib Anti-Defeatist

    So now according to shaykh Sawt al Kufr, marrying more than one is a sin that is forgiven...

    I fear that our Lord has not wished good upon this person, as you have no understanding of the deen.

    And may Allah give us understanding of the deen. Ameen.
     
  16. Abu Aziza

    Abu Aziza member

    ya akhi where did you get this from?
    does this mean if you marry more than one wife you have to repent for your sin?

    i never heard this before
     
  17. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Let me rephrase my question, akhi. Which mufti(besides you) came to that conclusion?
     
  18. Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari

    Abu Abdallah al-Bulghari <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>


    Tafsir ibn Kathir: 3:3

    Tafsir ibn Kathir: 3:129

     
  19. Ayman bin Khaled

    Ayman bin Khaled الفقير الى الله

    Are you using "should" to mean it is obligatory to marry only one since we cannot be just to them or using "should" to mean it is preferable?

    I will let you know the relation when you answer the question isnhallah.
     
  20. Sawtul Islam

    Sawtul Islam <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>



    I am not a Mufti, I am just saying what the Qur'an makes very clear. This is not really "My interpretation", this is what the Qur'an says and the Qur'an is clear and mobeen.

    As I explained on the previous threads (like the one on Ijma') you should follow the proof no matter who says it, a scholar or not. And you should only follow a scholar if he proves what he says, or else his opinion does not determine what Islam is.

    I have many years ago read of some scholars who said it is better to have one wife, but as I said before it does not matter to me if a scholar says the same thing, what matters is the evidence provided.

    So if Im wrong, then show me evidence stronger than what I have presented, I have already read the opinion of some scholars who say it makes no difference how many wives one has, or that it is even better to have more than one, but I have not seen any real evidence in support of such claims that makes sense, only conjecture.

    It is what is being said that is important, not who is saying it. As the Prophet (saw) said, Knowledge is the lost property of the believer and he may obtain it wherever he finds it.


    As for these verses, in both the word "Ta'delu" is used and there is no indication from the verses that there is any difference between the 'adl/justive mentioned in verse 3, and what is mentioned in verse 129, unless you say verse 3 to means it is only more proper to marry one wife if you fear you cant deal justly with them, however we dont have to understand the verse in that way as it could also mean it is more proper to marry one wife whether or not we fear we may not treat them with justice, and verse 129 actually makes it clear that this is what is meant in verse 3.

    No but it means that it is better and more proper to have one. If you have more so long as you do good and stay away from evil as stated in the Ayah it is automatically forgiven.


    The Ayah says if we fear that we cant treat them justly then marry only one, then says marrying one is more proper.

    As I explained above it means that it is better to marry only one either way, but we should (or "must") marry only one if we fear that we cant be just towards them.
     

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