Question how to refute ash'rahis??

Discussion in 'Identity, Activism and Unity' started by UmmTaymiyyah, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. UmmTaymiyyah

    UmmTaymiyyah Previously Talibatulilmi09

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<w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="31" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Subtle Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="32" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Intense Reference"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="33" SemiHidden="false" UnhideWhenUsed="false" QFormat="true" Name="Book Title"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="37" Name="Bibliography"/> <w:LsdException Locked="false" Priority="39" QFormat="true" Name="TOC Heading"/> </w:LatentStyles> </xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 10]> <style> /* Style Definitions */ table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle-rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso-style-priority:99; mso-style-qformat:yes; mso-style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para-margin-top:0in; mso-para-margin-right:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:10.0pt; mso-para-margin-left:0in; line-height:115%; mso-pagination:widow-orphan; font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; mso-ascii-font-family:Calibri; mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast; mso-hansi-font-family:Calibri; mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;} </style> <![endif]--> a friend of mine has asha'iarh and ahbaash family member and they ask her weird questions as she is the only one in her family who follows the Aqeedah of Ahlu Sunnah so, she was asking me this question about the Tafseer of the verse [And the Face of your Lord full of Majesty and Honour will abide forever] (26:27)

    because we affirm the Names and Attributes of Allaah 'bila kayfiyah'! they tell her that why do the Ahlu Sunnah not take the apparent meaning here and trans this to mean 'essence' and not face?? cause that would sound wrong? And therefore we shouldn’t trans the attributes at all...ash'ari nonsense!…etc



    I know that its because we take the meaning Allaah and his Messenger SallAllaahu alyhi wasalam intended and as understood by his companions and the salaf, so we translate where there is evidence to do so! But need more clarity and evidence of what was said bout this verse.


    Need If not a scholar‘s response a student of knowledge’s response!!

    and also she asked me something about Imam Abu Hanifah having ash'ari thought?? but repenting later??
    Wallaahu 'alam!
    barakallaahu feekum!!!
     
  2. wahhabi dissident

    wahhabi dissident New Member

    problem is when you translate something to another language maybe in that language the word closest to the meaning can have others meanings. the word wajh in english has the best meaning as face but in english face can mean a mans face, or face on a watch, it can be a verb like to face something which means to turn toward something, there are expressions like face value or to save face. so when translating there has to be more explanation. that is why we say Allah has a face but not like the face of humans or anything that we can imagine. always translations will need more explanation along with it.
     
  3. UmmTaymiyyah

    UmmTaymiyyah Previously Talibatulilmi09

  4. Salamat

    Salamat <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    First learn how to spell the word
    Secondly, laymen such as yourself and your friend have no business in "refuting" or even discussing such matters. Leave it to those whose business it is.
    Thirdly, did you truly name your daughter Taymiyyah? :confused:
     
    al-omari likes this.
  5. Ismail Ibrahim

    Ismail Ibrahim Formerly Harris Hammam

    True

    So true.

    That's like asking: Was the name of Ibn Taymiyyah's parent/grandparent really Taymiyyah?
     
  6. UmmTaymiyyah

    UmmTaymiyyah Previously Talibatulilmi09

    Thanks , would be helpful if you spell it correctly for me!!



    How about if we don’t want to remain ‘layman’ anymore??


    You should ask yourself is that a girl’s name to begin with!!!..and btw i posted the question here to discuss it with respectful students of knowledge on this forum!!
     
  7. Ghazi al Mujahid

    Ghazi al Mujahid Not a Wobbler

    Athari vs. Ashari debate resumes?
     
  8. UmmTaymiyyah

    UmmTaymiyyah Previously Talibatulilmi09

    barakallaahu feeki for the naseeha....you noe who you are...just to clarify...i was being sarcastic with this
    ...and was avoiding the simile...

    as i said in the question the sister isn't putting on some face-time debate or anything but she needs to put up with a family with this mentality may Allaah make it easy for her....and she needed some guidelines...so ain't tryna seek knowledge on a forum but just wanted to get some insight and was impatient and couldn't wait for our Friday class to raise the question to people of knowledge!...Allaahuma 'alimnaa ma yanfa'una wa naf'anaa bima 'alamtanaa wa zidnaa 'Ilmaa wal hamdulillaah 'ala kuli haal!
     
  9. samin62

    samin62 New Member

    If the debate hasn't been won by either side for the last millenia, you can't really expect to win it today.
     
  10. Abu_Afrikii

    Abu_Afrikii Member

    Subhan'Allah the Ashari's are made out to be some deviant sect!
     
  11. Bint Mahmood

    Bint Mahmood Well-Known Member

    What are you basing this on?
     
  12. Tuwaylib

    Tuwaylib Anti-Defeatist

    Simplest way I find to discuss with an Ash'ari is to say:

    1. Do you believe in the existence of Allah literally or metaphorically? Unless they are really deluded, they will say yes, Allah literally exists.
    2. Do you know the modality of His existence? They will surely answer no unless they are truly deluded.
    3. Just as you believe in the existence of Allah without knowing the reality of the modality, we believe in Allah's existence and His attributes similarly.
     
    Salamat and al-omari like this.
  13. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    If the sister is able to get a shaikh, but if not, then she would have to answer them herself, and it is good for her to learn the answers either way, to learn her deen, and not to give a way for the shaytan to put doubts in her heart.
     
  14. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    The meaning is "Essence that is attributed with a face" because the word "wajh/face" in the Arabic language can only be used to mean "essence" when that "essence" that is meant has the attribute of face.

    Words in the Arabic language have connections to their meanings, the word "face" is not used for "essence" or any other meaning with no reason, it was used for them due to a connection in meaning or reality.
    This is from the beauty of the Arabic language.

    Someone should ask Asharis why Allah used the word "wajh" instead of "nafs" (for example) to describe His Essence in the ayah, if "wajh/face" was not meant ?
     

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