HT Implodes!

Discussion in 'Identity, Activism and Unity' started by asharee_salafi, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

    HT implodes.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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    Hizb ut Tahrir implodes

    Wallahi I have only come across this only article today. Much of what I have been saying about HT correlates with what this author says. I did say that huge scale defections would happen in HT...now Yusuf Patel has also left HT ( hardcore cult member). This article is very interesting. I should state that I do not agree with the views of this website or the author but its just a small and fascinating insight. I have said that the worst is yet to come and Quilliam will be nothing compared to what HT still yet has to offer the Muslim community. MARK MY WORDS!!!!!!!

    Interesting to note that he makes a point similar to that I have made elsewhere. That is HT have EMBARRASED themselves badly, why? They claimed they had secret cells all across the middle east and they were waiting for the 'right time' to be activated. Now the revolutions have taken place, where are they? NO WHERE IN THE MUSLIM LANDS but i will tell you where they are, these cowards are hiding in the ladies in the chicken shops of south london, quacking in their boots. They are setting up shop in australia, usa, germany, denmark, holland, france, UK (main base) and even ukraine! They are setting up shop in every western country but leaving the Muslim world in their droves ( and yet still talking about the ills of western society whilst benefitting immensely, especially their shabab who gained much money through carousal tax fraud [perks of capitalism huh?] ).

    I even asked one HT this question and that individual thought that the revolution was about Khilafah and that HT were the main instigators!...what a truly crazy cult they are.<!-- google_ad_section_end --> ​
     
  2. AbuSulaiman

    AbuSulaiman New Member

    Now that's a funny picture.
     
  3. al-omari

    al-omari Well-Known Member

    Your an idiot who doesn't have a clue what he's talking about and whether they're right or wrong, they have been active in the Arab world, and it is enough that they have been prominent in protesting against the criminal Syrian regime while a clown like you wants to debate the merits of Imaan and Kufr.
     
  4. TheUmmahStridesForward

    TheUmmahStridesForward It was written...

    The Spittoon
    [h=1]Heresy is another word for freedom of thought[/h]


    Is this website reliable?- not rhetorical, I'm asking
     
  5. s-b-r

    s-b-r Patience is a Virtue

    No, it's a site by murtads, liberal secular extremists and Islamaphobes in general.
     
  6. ahmed al-muhajir

    ahmed al-muhajir New Member

    Dear Akhi, I know you have many issues with HT (as we all do!), but to resort to the writings of a Murtard (Apostate) like Shiraz Maher is taking your dislike to them on another level. For your information Shiraz Maher is someone who is dead against the Shariah and has very similar ideas to the Quilliam Foundation, so for you to refer to him is a big mistake. Akhi just to let you know he left HT because he views them as being too radical and for wnating to establish a Caliphate (Which is something we all want to happen inshallah).
     
  7. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

    ...and then you woke up.

    BTW, I do find it strange how your stalking me...isnt it quite ...weird for one male to stalk another male? You must be...you know.

    Back to HT though, I know someone who was with the Wallayyah of HT for over a decade who actually went to Syria. NOT ONE SINGLE person knew of HT. Not only that my former tajweed teacher himself was a student of Ramadhan Bouti and his family were close to Al Albani, and he never EVER came across HT until he came to the UK. The fact that they have based themselves in Europe shows a failure to do anything in the Muslim world.
     
  8. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

    Yup, what you said is very true and I agree with you :). Thats why in the initial post I left a disclaimer, but what he stated in that article is a verifiable fact...as we know about the hadeeth of the shaytan who recited ayatul kursi and Nabi SAW confirmed that he spoke the truth. He is a shaytan, but what he said was definitely true.
     
  9. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

     
  10. A.H

    A.H Ali Harfouch

    Wow, what a cheapshot. How wise is it to attack one of the only groups which have not become pragmatic and hold strong to their principles? Dear brother, I would recommend you (don't know if you have) come to the Muslim world and see the work that the brothers at Hizb ut-Tahrir are doing. Please keep in mind that there has been massive repression of their activities, even in Lebanon, a so called 'Liberal' and country, they are constantly arresting the brothers. Hence, most of their activities were previously underground and aimed at building and cultivating party members. Had they chosen to compromise, they would have been able to gain the popularity that the Brotherhood and Nahda party had attained, but the truth comes with a price.

    Also, as you know HT is not a populist party hence their success is not to be measured by their numbers but by the strength of their intellectual vanguard ... and if anything the revolutions today are in need of such a vanguard to take the reigns of leadership.

    I know the Hizb ut-Tahrir brothers in Lebanon, and attend many of their activities and have benefitted tremendously from them. They are neither weak, nor imploding. May Allah keep them steadfast, Ameen.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2011
  11. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member

    Your a supporter of HT, of course you will be disillusioned by the facts.


    Tell me how can they be arresting them left right and centre if they are actually not banned in Lebanon? Not only that OBM with all his crazyness is left to go unchallenged over there .

    As for not gaining popularity, then the reason being is that unlike the Ikhwan etc, they are not politicaly clued up. They fail to support the Muslim insitutions and partipate in teh society and thus get left behind.

    As for Lebanese HT, the leader is a kafir shia...what good can we get from such kuffar?


     
  12. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member


    Religioscope: Islamic movement: Hizbut Tahrir's new drive in the Levant – An interview with Dr. Mohammed Jaber



    Mahan Abedin - Is it true that you are a Shi'a Muslim?

    Mohammed Jaber - First and foremost HT doesn't attach significance to sectarian identities and differentiation within Islam. Our objective is to promote a common Islamic identity on the global stage. But in answer to your question I was born into a Shi'a Muslim family in Nabatiyeh in southern Lebanon. I was attracted to HT for many reasons, one of them being HT's non-sectarian attitudes. According to HT beliefs, religious differences in Islam - for instance the number of times Muslims pray daily and minor differences in how they pray - are of no significance whatsoever. What is important is to adopt, maintain and strengthen a common Islamic identity with a view to political mobilization on a global scale.

    Furthermore, we adopt a vision and plan to eventually eliminate these schisms and sectarian divisions among the Muslims; in our view a person is either a Muslim or a Kafir (non-believer); if he's a Muslim he's supposed to work with his fellow Muslims to serve the Deen (Faith), otherwise we call upon the non-Muslims to enter in the faith and join the global community of Muslims


    Mahan Abedin - But according to some scholars, adopting HT's ideology is tantamount to relinquishing core Shi'a beliefs!

    Mohammed Jaber - I don't agree with this statement. And you will find that many leading Shi'a clerics, including Grand Ayatollah Mohammad Hussein Fadlallah of Lebanon, would not agree with this statement.


    Mahan Abedin - HT claims to be non-sectarian, but do you sincerely believe that all HT chapters around the world follow this policy?

    Mohammed Jaber - There is an HT ideological-political training book called the "Fundamentals of Islam" - issued in 1953 - which clearly states that adherents of the Jaafari school of Islam (i.e. Twelver Shi'as) are fully-fledged believers who have the right to play an active role in the Islamic state, including acceding to the highest political-religious office, namely that of the Khalifah (i.e. Caliph). I can sincerely and categorically claim that there is no sectarianism in HT at all. Anyone who adopts sectarian beliefs or attitudes has stepped out of the HT ideological framework


    Mahan Abedin - The ultimate objective of HT is the creation of a Caliphate but throughout Islamic history Shi'a Muslims - on account of their minority status - have had at best a lukewarm attitude toward this institution. Do you think it is possible to surpass the weight of history and ameliorate deeply-rooted fears?

    Mohammed Jaber - This is an important question. You are correct to state that generally speaking Shi'a Muslims are not convinced about the virtues of the Khilafah. The best way to overcome this misunderstanding is through education and the involvement of Shi'a Muslims at every level of the wide-scale effort to bring about the Islamic state. Let's not forget that Imam Ali (AS) was also a Khalifah.

    Mahan Abedin - If you look at the development of modern Islamic political thought and wider intellectual trends in the past 200 years one of the most striking features is the absence of the Khilafah concept from Shi'a political thought. This idea is exclusive to Sunni Muslims. How can you bridge such a vast intellectual and political chasm?

    Mohammed Jaber - It is not correct to say that Shi'a scholars reject the Khilafah. For instance, both Grand Ayatollahs Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah and Mohammed Baqer Al-Sadr [1] expressed support for the creation of the Khilafah. Furthermore we believe that all Muslims must refer to the prophet Mohammad (SAW) in providing the true Islamic concept of the Islamic state; we aim to build a consensus on this central issue. Our success across the Ummah proves that this is both possible and necessary.

    Mahan Abedin - In my discussions with HT leaders and members across the world I have noted that they provide different, and at times conflicting, evaluations of Hezbollah. What is the official HT attitude toward Hezbollah?

    Mohammed Jaber - HT regards Hezbollah as a sincere religious Islamic political group and resistance organisation. It is a religious duty to support Hezbollah's resistance against the Zionist regime and its drive to liberate occupied Palestine. But HT is critical of Hezbollah's close ties to Syria and Iran, since we believe that these countries are somehow complicit in American policies in the region.

    We are particularly critical of Hezbollah's relations with Syria since we suspect that the Syrians' tough rhetoric on Israel is a smokescreen for their secret desire to reach accommodation with the Zionist entity. We constantly talk to Hezbollah about these issues and we do our best to advise them.

    Moreover, we strongly criticised Hezbollah's deep involvement in Lebanese domestic politics, which has seriously undermined the original Islamic platform of the resistance organization. Sadly they failed to advance a pan-Islamic political programme and instead became a mere participant in the political order imposed by the colonial Sykes-Picot Agreement . Here, indeed, lies our basic central difference with Hezbollah [2].

    Mahan Abedin - I have heard that you met the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini in Paris back in late 1978, a few months before the victory of the Islamic revolution. What was your assessment of the late Ayatollah Khomeini and what is your assessment of the Islamic revolution in Iran?

    Mohammed Jaber - When I met Imam Khomeini back in 1978, the HT delegation delivered a letter to the Imam and we asked His Eminence if his movement had a project to create a global Islamic state and we also asked him if they had prepared a constitution. We impressed upon the Imam the importance of devising a proper constitution for the Islamic state. We told him in no uncertain terms that HT was prepared to assist the Iranians in building the Islamic state, even if this state was dominated by Twelver Shi'as. But we had one condition, namely that this state must belong to all the Muslims. It shouldn't be an Iranian national state.

    Mahan Abedin - What was the exact date of this meeting, how many people were in the HT delegation and who were they?

    Mohammed Jaber - We met the Imam on three occasions. The first meeting happened in October 1978; the second in December 1978; and the third in early February 1979, just before the Imam's return to Iran. The delegation consisted of three people; myself, the head of HT in Europe at the time and his assistant.

    Mahan Abedin - What was Ayatollah Khomeini's response to your overtures?

    Mohammed Jaber - Imam Khomeini listened much more than he talked. And when he talked he did so in general terms. The Imam was reluctant to get bogged down in details.

    Mahan Abedin - Based on the experience of the first decade of the Islamic revolution (1979-1989), in your view was Imam Khomeini a true champion of the politics of pan-Islam?

    Mohammed Jaber - Doubtless Imam Khomeini was a great and sincere Islamic leader. He had a global impact in the political and juridical fields. The Imam also changed the course and some underlying concepts of international relations, particularly in our region. However, the state that he led can not be described as Islamic in the strictest definition of this term. It may have been a state for specific type of Muslims, but it wasn't a state for Muslims as a global community.

    Mahan Abedin - In the light of recent political events in Iran, what is your assessment of the survivability (or otherwise) of the Islamic Republic of Iran?

    Mohammed Jaber - I am going to give you my personal opinion, but this opinion is shared by most HT leaders and members across the world. The Iranian regime is strong precisely because its legitimacy is based on Islam. It is an imperfect Islamic state, but nonetheless it aspires to reach the stage where it can qualify as a truly Islamic state. In any case, that is how the Islamic Republic projects itself to the outside world.

    Yet we maintain that the leaders of the revolution have failed to advance a truly pan-Islamic vision encompassing the entire Muslim Ummah; instead they drifted toward a nationalistic Iranian agenda, even if it meant collusion with American plans in Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen and Lebanon. Nevertheless, the West wants regime change in Iran - and failing that to at least alter the nature of the regime - but I don't think the Iranian people want a Western-friendly government.<!-- google_ad_section_end --><!-- google_ad_section_end -->
     
  13. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Ashari_salafi,

    In light of your last post on Islamism and Islamic State, HT should be the last of your worries. It's about time you really start focusing on your own faults rather than blaming HTs for all your misfortunes.

    Do not let my bluntness/harshness prevent you from honest introspection.

    wasalam
     
  14. Intoodeep

    Intoodeep Banned

    So what if they lose a lot of their middle managers. Its not the end of the world for them.

    In the early 80s, HT had only one or two study groups in the UK with a maximum of 5-10 people. Then Omar bakri and Farrid Kaseem amongst others kicked off the dawah and before you knew it they were packing out London arena with nearly 10,000 people for the khilafah conference in 1994.

    They radicalised and introduced a whole generation to the call for dar al islam and Islamised a generation of the immigrant sons and daughters of a until then, pretty secular and insular south Asian muslim community in the UK.

    Even if they die out completely tomorrow their legacy will still be here. I know brothers in the UK who are now imams of masjid, run Islamic radio stations, Dawah programs, TV stations, Islamic schools and many many other activities who initially came through via the dawah of HT.
     
  15. Abu'l 'Eyse

    Abu'l 'Eyse Rep-manz

    was this before or after they cussed everyone else who did it before and said they were "indirect agents of the kuffar" or "havent got a clue about the ummah's affairs" or an "obstable to the revival" and all the other insults they levelled at the sincere muslims who for years before them had been doing these things and trying to build up their commuinities while they were cussed by the shabab?

    Credit where credit is due, and yes many shabab have changed and some have changed and left the hizb and some remain and struggle to try and change the ways of the hizb and so many of the brothers and sisters on the street are sincere and good muslims and want the best for islam and muslims

    but people need to also wake up, and be consistent, we don't just frown upon madkhalism, asharism, bathism etc and is we see a similar fitna elsewhere we apply 'udhr bil jahl

    we know how even to this day one minute they accussed shaykh haytham for kufr akbar regarding his stance on voting, the next minute they are all proud he is at their conference

    how about hamza from iERA? Wasnt he supposed to be a quillimite when he left? or as another brother put it "he didnt really have a proper justification for leaving" etc

    or how about the mild rafidism which is amongst some of the shabab due to their hatred of mu''awiyah and how they disregard him as a sahaabi(radiAllahu 'anhu) and I say this because just today a brother told me how when a sister from HT was told by a brother he named his son mu'awiyah she gave him a wierd look like why? and the other HT supporter teacher in a school who had a go at a student because he was called mu'awiyah and he said why did his parent name him with that name and starting bashing mu'awiyah(radiAllahu 'anhu)

    if we claim to have a balanced view then have a balanced view, it means when we see someone saying something good like we want the deen established or we want to have muslims more politically aware and active we say alhamdulillah! and if we can work together according to al-Islam then lets do so

    and if we see some people want to join ranks with shia, cuss laymen muslims as juhalaa/agents, etc we say get lost with that

    I use to have enough debates with HT but I left that because we should concentrate more on unity, but tht aint gonna stop me from calling BS for what it is

    if we do it with madkhalis, shias and other (cus their rubbish) then HT and OURSELVES are not exempt from that

    now shiraz is a jahil kafir quillimite but what he mentioned in his article is interesting. Anyone knows these guys who left were not small fry HT they were some important members, make you think innit

    but maybe think about it after ramadan innit

    wa ALLAHU a'lam
     
  16. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    AbulEyes, I completely agree with you that HT shouldn't be spared from criticism.

    However, if the one who is criticising seems to be drifting towards secularism, then we have a greater issue at hand... much greater than HT.

    It's like Rabi al-Madkhali and co, writing volumes in refutation of Sayyid Qutb, while ignoring who he stood against, the secularist Abd al-Nasir.

    It's about getting things in perspective.
     
  17. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member


    What did I say? Why the Islamic groups with radical visions have failed totally in bringing about change? ah, that. Yes I said that...so?

    I dont consider your replies harsh, just atypical of how some in our community have come - full of crass stupidity and reactionism.

    As for any misfortunes I may have or may not have I've never blamed HT but it is my own doing.

    The reason why the Ummah has fallen for hundreds of years is because of their own doing.

    The reason why the radical groups have failed is because of their own doing.
     
  18. Abu'l 'Eyse

    Abu'l 'Eyse Rep-manz

    I totally agree bro thats why i said:


    You know me bro I had issues with HT but I'm more accepting of them for the greater good of the community

    but one thing I noticed about constantly arguing with anyone be it HT/Shia/Ash'aris/Madkhalis et al is that we often spent more time on their faults than our own and so that is one benefit for many of us to calm down on these types of discussions

    also sometimes we think (like I use to) that we are doing a service by exposing people but we are deluded in that we don't focus on what we should be for the ummah

    as for the issue of perspective I agree but I would say we take that information in perspective too such as that madkhali scholar who wrote a daming radd on the ash'aris, madkhalis are murji'ah but we took their radd on the jahmiyyah if you get me, its all about the balance I guess, it something we all need to work on innsha'ALLAH

    wa ALLAHU A'alm
     
  19. asharee_salafi

    asharee_salafi New Member


    Excuse me. Which HT were you familiar with?? (10,000 in 1994?) HT made a horrendoues campaign against charities, against Islamic schools. Some HT's have now got involved after realising they were so wrong. As for those guys that are now Imams via HT dawah...please do name them.?

    Those who have built our communities, Islamised the communities, built schools, built masjids, dawah organisations have all been free from HT's, Mojo's etc. They are just rabble rousers, in fact even Salafis have done more then them. In my local community they teach fiqh, have a madrasah for kids in the council building (!) teach aqeedah, help the neighbours, organise eid, organise ramadhan have never involved one single HT, they never have come forward to help.

    The other local community I live near have an amazing masjid, vibrant youth...some of these youth I remember in my HT days as small kids, they have grown up now, come to the deen in the most amazing of ways, give beautiful dawah and outpaced me 101 times over. Ask them about HT and they think its a curry dish.

    The problem with the supporters Planet IA, and Planet HT, and Planet Salafi etc is this. There are some ants that live under a rock their whole lives, they dont know that a few meters away from them another rock exists with an ant colony...they dont know about the thousands of other colonies of ants and other species let alone the humans, even different planets and the possibility of other universes! They are just limited to what they know and cant perceive past that boundary.
     
  20. murdiyyah

    murdiyyah [x]

    I know brother A.H and that he ain't a blind supporter, in fact a very harsh critic. Proceed with caution.
     

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