In Reply to Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah

Discussion in 'Global Affairs' started by ibnmyatt, Sep 28, 2007.

  1. ibnmyatt

    ibnmyatt Talib

    Bismillah Ar-Raham Ar-Raheem


    In Reply to Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah




    All Praise and All Thanks are for Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala to whom we shall all return to be judged on The Last Day.


    "And you will see how those in whose hearts is a disease will run toward them saying: "We are afraid we will be defeated." But it is Allah who will bring them victory - or some punishment - and so, one day, they may awaken from their sleep remorseful about that which they concealed concerning themselves." (5:52 Interpretation of meaning) ​


    At the beginning of this Blessed Month of Ramadan, Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah composed and circulated an open letter to Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) in which he made several criticisms of our Mujahid brother, Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah).


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: How much blood has been spilled? How many innocent children, women, and old people have been killed, maimed, and expelled from their homes in the name of "al-Qaeda"?

    In reply, we say two important things:

    (1) How much Muslim blood have the kuffar and their allies spilled in their invasions and occupations of our lands, in their support for apostate regimes and rulers, in their bid to have us accept and bow down before their Tawagheet, and in their support for the Zionist entity which has occupied Filistine? How many Muslims have the kuffar and their allies killed in the last six years, in the last sixty years, in the last hundred years? In the last six years alone tens of thousands of Muslims have been killed in Afghanistan; tens upon tens of thousands in Seeshan, and in the place the kuffar call Iraq; while every week - for the past sixty years - Muslims have been killed in Filistine. Who is lamenting for our dead brothers and sisters? Who is being held to account?

    Furthermore, how many Muslim children, women and old people have been injured by the kuffar and their allies? How many expelled from their homes? Millions. Who is lamenting for these, our brothers and sisters? Who is being held to account?

    Who has tortured thousands upon thousands of our brothers and sisters in places such as Bagram and Abu Gharib, and who has imprisoned tens upon tens of thousands of our brothers and sisters? Who is lamenting for these, our brothers and sisters? Who is being held to account?

    Who has invaded and occupied our lands? Who is oppressing our brothers and sisters? Who is fighting the invaders, the occupiers and their apostate allies and their puppet armed forces? Who are defending their brothers and sisters?

    Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "Allah does not forbid you from treating honourably those who do not act against you because of your Deen, or who have not driven you from your dwellings, for Allah loves those who act with honour. But Allah forbids you from treating with respect, or befriending, those who act against you because of your Deen, or have driven you from your dwellings or aided others to do this - for those of you who do this are without honour." 60: 8-9 Interpretation of Meaning​

    "It is not you who kills them: rather, it is Allah who kills them. You did not shoot (anything) when you aimed and let go: rather, it was Allah who shot as a test for the believers, a fair test from the One Who Hears all, Who understands all. This, in truth, is how things are: for it is Allah alone who can nullify the plots of the disbelievers."8: 15-18 Interpretation of Meaning​


    (2) Who is "innocent" and who defines this term? According to Sheikh Hammoud Al-Uqlaa Ash-Shuaybi: "What many are babbling about and repeating when they talk about "innocent victims", is nothing but the effect of the West and its media, to the extent that many an unwary person repeats the words and expressions of our enemies, which are in direct contradiction with the expressions of Shariah."

    As written elsewhere:


    Therefore, we should consider the matter of such deaths in the correct context - which is of seeking to use only the criteria of Quran and Sunnah; which is of defending our brothers and sisters and our Muslims lands; which is of seeking to defend our Deen; which is of the invasion and occupation of our lands by the kuffar; which is of the interference in our affairs by the kuffar for well over a hundred years; which is of their manufacture, in once Muslim lands, of their Taghut of the nation-State and of the nationalism which goes with it; which is of the determined campaign, by the kuffar, to change our Deen and have us accept their Tawagheet (such as democracy and the so-called United Nations); which is of the support, by the kuffar, for apostate rulers and corrupt regimes in Muslim lands; and so on, and so on.

    As Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


    "Judge between them by what Allah has revealed: do not give in to your own desires, and beware, for they will try to lead you astray, away from some of that which Allah has revealed. And if they turn away, there is the knowledge of their punishment by Allah for some transgression of theirs - and, indeed, there are many disobedient, rebellious ones [Fasiqun]. Do they seek to judge according to the ways of Jahiliyyah? The judgement of Allah is best - for those who sincerely believe." 5:49-50 Interpretation of Meaning​

    "Do not believe that those who are killed in the Way of Allah are dead. Rather, they are alive, fulfilled, and with their Rabb. They rejoice because of what Allah has bestowed upon them in His generosity. They rejoice because of those who have not yet joined them, but have been left behind - that no fear, no grieving should come to them. They rejoice because of the favour that Allah has shown them in His mercy: for no dishonour touched them and Allah always rewards the Believers. Thus for those who heard and answered (the Call of) Allah and His Messenger Muhammad after harm touched them - for those of them who did honourable deeds and feared Allah - there will be the best reward of all." 3: 169-172 Interpretation of Meaning​


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote, quoting a Hadith: "Whoever as much as kills a sparrow in vain will find it crying before Allah on the Day of Judgment: My Lord! That person killed me in vain. He did not kill me for needful sustenance..."

    In respect of this Hadith, it was reported that Abdullah Ibn Amr narrated that the Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said:

    "When someone kills [even] a sparrow, without just cause, Allah will ask him about it on the Day of Judgement." Then someone asked: "Prophet of Allah! What is a just cause?" and he replied: "To slaughter it for food..." (Narrated by Al-Nasa'i, 7/ 207)​

    Thus, the question we must ask, in relation to this particular criticism of Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) is: is it just for us, according to Quran and Sunnah, to fight and to kill the kuffar and their allies who have invaded and occupied our lands, who have interfered in our affairs for over a hundred years, and who have killed hundreds of thousands - if not millions - of our brothers and sisters, and tortured and imprisoned tens upon tens of thousands of our brothers and sisters, and who demand that we abandon Deen Al-Islam for their Tawagheet?

    Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


    "If anyone attacks you, then retaliate and attack them in the way that they have attacked you." 2: 194 Interpretation of Meaning

    "The retribution for a wrong is to inflict the like (upon the wrong-doer)." 42:40 Interpretation of Meaning

    "If an injury has been inflicted on you, make certain that a similar injury has been inflicted, by you, on the disbelievers: there are good days, and bad days, which We give to each side in turn for thereby We know those who believe and choose from among them witnesses (to the Truth)." 3:140 Interpretation of Meaning

    "You who believe! What is wrong with you that you did not rush forth when called [to aid] the Way of Allah? Or is it that you love this earth so much - that you crave its comforts so much - that you forget the next life where such earthly things are revealed for the insignificant comforts they are?" 9: 38Interpretation of Meaning​


    We should also ask: if it is just for us to do this, then what are the limits, according to Shariah? Sheikh ul-Islam ibn Taimiyyah (Rahimullah) gives an excellent summary in Siyasatush-Shariah of who, according to the majority opinion, among the kuffar may not be targeted. According to him, those who should not be killed are women, children, the elderly, the blind, and those who are incapable of physically fighting, provided such persons as these do not assist or aid, through words, or deeds, or by giving assistance or encouragement to, those who are fighting.

    Thus, the Shariah argument centres around what constitutes aid, assistance and encouragement, in words and deeds. In addition, it has to be asked and has been asked: who, among the kuffar, are responsible for, or to be held accountable, for the invasion of our lands, for the killing, torture and imprisonment of our brothers and sisters? Is it just the figureheads, such as Bush, Brown and people like Busharraf? Or are - in so-called democratic lands where such figureheads and leaders are said to be acting "in the name of the people" and who derive their authority to govern and to act from the people who elected them - the people themselves accountable?


    Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) and those in Al-Qaeda, and many others among the Mujahideen and elsewhere, have saught to answer such questions, according to the only criteria which matters, which is of Quran and Sunnah, and they have - after consulting with the Ahl adh-Dhikr among them - have answers which have explained the limits.


    Furthermore, we say in further reply that Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) in particular and the Mujahideen in general have been fighting only in accordance to such limits: that they are well aware of our Rabb, of The Judgement of our Rabb from which neither they nor we can escape, and that their very lives are evidence of this truth, as is their love of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and His Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) and their desire to obey only Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Indeed, we would go further and say that it is such brothers - and such sisters as aid and support them - who are Muslim examples to us in these dire times when many Muslims have abandoned the way of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jammah and Jihad Fee Sabilillah and instead imitate the kuffar and take as their examples in life some kaffir so-called "celebrity" or "entertainer" or some so-called "sportsman" or some other such example of the decadence and ignorance of the kuffar. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "Turn away from those who, turning away from Our reminders, seek only the life of the dunya." 53:29 Interpretation of Meaning​

    Of course, Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) and those in Al-Qaeda, and the many others, who have accepted such answers may be in error, and there are many Muslims who believe they are are or may be in error (May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala guide them and us) just as there are many other Muslims who not only admire him but who believe he is not in error in such matters. But it needs to be made known again that even if he and they are in error in respect of such matters we do not - we should not - aid the kuffar against them. According to Sheikh Safar bin 'Abdir-Rahmaan al-Hawaali:


    The important issue here, in respect of Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah criticisms of our brother, is that Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) does live and act - according to all those who know him or who have known him - as a Muslim, with a genuine humility, and is much given to remembering Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala and is seeking only to do what is right and just according to the criteria of Quran and Sunnah. Thus, we do not under any circumstances betray this brother to the kuffar, nor join forces with the kuffar to fight against him, nor join in the kaffir chorus of condemnation against him, nor allow the kuffar to dictate to us how we should view him and those in Al-Qaeda and those elsewhere, for if we use the criteria of the ignorant kuffar (such as the Tawagheet of "innocent" and "terrorism") in our words, thoughts and speech, then we are surely imitating the kuffar, whether we are aware of this or not. Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


    "From each and every direction He has the power to deliver misfortune to you - to sow confusion and dissension among you. Thus do We reveal our Signs, that you might understand them." 6:65 Interpretation of Meaning


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: Didn't you read where the Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "One of the prophets once sat under a tree and was bitten by an ant. Because of this, he burnt the ant's nest. Thereupon, Allah inspired to him: "Why not only the one ant?"

    This and similar narrations has been recorded by Bukhari (4, Book 54, Number 536) and Muslim (Kitab As-Salaam, 5567, 5568, 5569) and Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah, after quoting the Hadith, says: "If this is the case for a nest of ants, consider how much worse it must be to visit harm upon human beings." However, the correct context would be: how much worse might it be if there were no just cause; if you did not act in accord with the due limits, for as Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


    "And there shall be no blame for those who take revenge after they have suffered injustice. The way (of blame) is only for those rebellious ones who oppress others and who insolently walk on the earth: for these there will be a painful torment indeed." 42: 41-42 Interpretation of Meaning​



    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: Our Rabb tells us: "Whosoever kills a human being for other than manslaughter or corruption in the Earth, it shall be as if he had killed all mankind, and whoso saves the life of one, it shall be as if he had saved the lives of all mankind."

    In context, this Ayah (5:32) is:

    "We prescribed for the children of Israel that whoever killed someone not in retaliation [for a killing] nor for spreading dishonour, it will be as if he had killed all the people, and that whoever saved one of them, it will be as if he had saved all of them." Interpretation of Meaning​

    Thus, even if one interprets this Ayah in general so as to refer to other than a past command to the people of Israel, then it is lawful to kill someone in retribution or for spreading dishonour, defined as such retribution and dishonour are by Quran, Sunnah and thus Shariah.



    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: what is to be gained from the destruction of entire nations - which is what we are witnessing in Afghanistan and Iraq - seeing them torn them with plague and famine?

    What is to be gained from accepting the invasions and the occupations of the kuffar - in Afghanistan and Iraq - which invasions and which occupations have led to the current state of affairs. The fault lies with the kuffar - not with Sheikh Usama Bin Muhammad Bin Ladin (hafidhahullah) and Al-Qaeda. It was the kuffar who decided, decades ago after their so-called First World War, to manufacture the artificial nation called Iraq according to their Taghut of the nation-State. It was the kuffar who decided that this artificial nation must be ruled according to their Taghut of democracy - and to achieve this they have now invaded and occupied that land and installed a puppet government, and have killed hundreds of thousands of Muslims; tortured thousands upon thousands of Muslims there and imprisoned many more. Now, they are determined to "re-educate" our brothers and sisters there and are expecting them to admire and follow the nations of the West with the rampant addiction to drugs, alcohol, vice, profanity, violence, oppression, inequality, crime and decadence that is such a feature of Western societies. It is same in Afghanistan. It is the same in Sheeshan; in Algeria; in Egypt; in Somalia; in the Arabian Peninsula.

    What is the correct solution? The Taghut of the nation-State? Accepting the diktat of the kuffar and their manufactured laws, and the overlordship of the kaffir United Nations and the division of the world into nation-States? The Taghut of democracy? Or, is the correct solution Islam, and accepting the guidance of Quran and Sunnah, of living in a land ruled only according to Shariah? We are seeking to return to Quran and Sunnah; to Shariah; to living as Muslims in lands free from the influence, the corruption, the decadence, the Tawagheet, of the kuffar. As Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "Fight against those who do not believe in Allah, or in The Last Day, and who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, as well as those among the people of the book who do not acknowledge the Deen of Truth, and fight them until they pay the Jizya with willing submission." 9:29 interpretation of Meaning​


    Furthermore, it is a lie, a myth, to believe as the masters of the kuffar want us to believe in their perfidy, that the New York and Washington expeditions - the Jumaadi Al-Thaani attacks - and the so-called "war on terrorism" are the reason behind the recent invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan, and behind the killing of hundreds of thousands of Muslims by the kuffar. Rather, the truth is that those attacks were but one part of a chain of events which goes back over a hundred years, and which events include the occupation of Muslim lands by the kuffar, the ending of the Khilafah by that lackey and imitator of the kuffar Ataturk, the occupation of Palestine by the Zionists, and the creation of puppet regimes and lackey governments in lands such as Egypt, Algeria, the Arabian Peninsula and elsewhere. The fault lies with the kuffar - with their persistent and deadly interference in our affairs for well over a hundred years and in their arrogant insistence that they have a right, a duty, a so-called "destiny", to bring the so-called benefits of Western so-called civilization to the rest of the world, and particularly to the Muslims. The kuffar have not let us alone, and they will not leave us alone, such is their arrogance and insolence and their lust for power.

    Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "They long for you to disbelieve even as they disbelieve, so that you may be the same (as them) so do not choose friends from among them until they accept the way of Allah." 4:89 Interpretation of Meaning​


    "You who believe [in Allah and The Last Day]: do not befriend nor rely upon those outside [your Deen] for they will lead you astray desiring as they do to harm you: and although hatred issues forth from their mouths what they conceal in their hearts is far worse. Here are Signs, for those who have Aql." 3: 118 Interpretation of Meaning​

    "The Jews and Nazarenes will never be satisfied with you until they have changed your way of life." 2: 120 Interpretation of Meaning​


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: War is something hateful that must only be resorted to under the most dire and compelling of circumstances when no other way is found.

    We are at war because of the kuffar - because of their plans, their machinations, their desire to have us accept their mastery, their laws, their capitalism, their desire to have us bow down to their Tawagheet of the nation-State, of democracy, of the so-called United Nations.

    It is they who have invaded and occupied our lands. They who have interfered in our affairs. We are resisting their invasion, their occupation, their interference. There is no other way than Jihad Fee Sabilillah. As Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


    "We are rid of you and what you bow down before - and between you and us there will be hatred and fighting until you accept Allah and Allah alone." 6:4 Interpretation of Meaning​


    It was narrated by Abu Da'ud that the Prophet (salla Allahu 'alayhi wa sallam) said: "Whoever loves for Allah, hates for Allah, gives for Allah, and withholds for Allah, is correctly striving for the Deen." [Refer to Sheikh ul-Islam ibn Tamayyah: Al Furqan bayana Awliya ar Rahman wa awliya ash-Shaitan , ch. 2]


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: Is Islam only about guns and ammunition? Have your means become the ends themselves?

    Islam is about submitting to, about obeying, Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. It is the perspective of Jannah, not of the dunya - the way of viewing the dunya as a means, a test, an opportunity, given to us by Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala.

    We fight to protect our brothers and sisters; to resist the kuffar and the Tawagheet of the kuffar; the implement Quran and Sunnah in the dunya; to raise the Word of Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. To do our duty, as Muslims, Bi'ithnillahi Ta'ala.

    As Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:


    "Let those who would trade the life of this world for the life Hereafter fight in the Cause of Allah. And those who do fight in the Cause of Allah - whether they be killed or are victorious - will have bestowed on them, by Us, a great reward." 4: 74 Interpretation of Meaning​


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: My heart pains me when I think of the number of young people who had so much potential - who would have made such great and original contributions to society, who had so much to offer that was constructive and positive - who have been turned into living bombs.

    Our hearts pain us when we see, when we hear of, our brothers and sisters killed by the thousand by the kuffar and their apostate allies. Our hearts pain us when we see, when we hear of, our brothers and sisters, tortured and humiliated by the kuffar and by the allies and apostate lackeys of the kuffar. Our hearts pain us when we see, when we hear of, our brothers and sisters in Filistine suffer under the brutal occupation of the Zionists. Our hearts pain us when we see, when we hear of, our brothers and sisters suffer and go hungry in what once were the lands of the Muslims.

    As Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "The believers are as one family." 49:10 Interpretation of Meaning ​


    Surely, what matters is striving to obey Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala - the perspective of Jannah; what does not matter is dwelling on the dunya and what "success" (according to kaffir standards) we might achieve or could achieve in the dunya and what "contributions we might make to society". Whose "society" anyway? That of the kuffar, or that of the Muslims? If of the Muslims, we have no Muslim "society" now where the kuffar and their apostate lackeys have no influence or power and where we can live, as Muslims, ruled by an Ameer according to Shariah alone. As Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "What your heart desires and your eyes delight in will be there in that Garden of Paradise you can inherit through your deeds in your life in this world." 43:71-72 Interpretation of Meaning​


    Sheikh Salman b. Fahd al-Oadah wrote: Here is the vital question that you need to ask yourself and that others have the right to demand and answer for: What have all these long years of suffering, tragedy, tears, and sacrifice actually achieved?

    Here is the essential answer: There has been a striving to submit to, and to obey, only Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala. Our victory, our success, is Jannah, InshaAllah. Wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa billah.



    In conclusion, let us strive to be, as Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala says:

    "Loyal to the Believers, stern toward the kuffar, who fight in the Way of Allah, and who do not heed the criticism of their critics. For this is the honour that He bestows upon whomsoever He wills - for Allah is The All-Knowing, The Infinite One. In truth, your champions are Allah, His Messenger, and the Believers - those who undertake As-Salat, who give Zakat and who submit [in loyalty to Allah]. For whomsoever has Allah, His Messenger, and Believers as their Champion, are the ones who will achieve (the) victory (of Jannah)." 5: 54-56 Interpretation of Meaning​



    May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta'ala protect us from all forms of Al-asabiyyah Al-Jahiliyyah, forgive us for our mistakes, and guide us to and keep us on the Right Path.



    Abdul-Aziz
    16 Ramadan 1428
     
  2. hussain

    hussain New Member

    the zionist stalker who has insulted the Prophet (SAWS) and who hides behind anonymity wrote something....


    An interesting and recent (and maybe even relevant) quote:

     
  3. omnipitus2006

    omnipitus2006 New Member

    Sorry there David, it appears my original post was deleted - probably by accident - and I didn't want you to not benefit from knowing more about your countries laws and how you violate them.

    Encouragement of terrorism
    (1) This section applies to a statement that is likely to be understood by some or all of the members of the public to whom it is published as a direct or indirect encouragement or other inducement to them to the commission, preparation or instigation of acts of terrorism or Convention offences.

    (2) A person commits an offence if—

    (a) he publishes a statement to which this section applies or causes another to publish such a statement; and

    (b) at the time he publishes it or causes it to be published, he—
    (i) intends members of the public to be directly or indirectly encouraged or otherwise induced by the statement to commit, prepare or instigate acts of terrorism or Convention offences; or
    (ii) is reckless as to whether members of the public will be directly or indirectly encouraged or otherwise induced by the statement to commit, prepare or instigate such acts or offences.
    ****

    I hope you find that helpful.

    Note to moderators - if you're going to erase wholesale posts without explanation you should probably also go to the effort to erase the users account. If you deleted my post on purpose, then kindly explain why, considering the contents was nothing but helpful.

    Thank you.
     
  4. Umm Ahmed

    Umm Ahmed 2C oursels as ithers C us

    I deleted it as you wrote his full name and thats not allowed in the rules .

    For your information the brother is discussing the issues not inciting anyone InshaAllaah, thats what this forum has always been about.

    You can pm ibnMayaat if your concerns.
     
  5. omnipitus2006

    omnipitus2006 New Member

    Thank you for the explanation. I'm sorry I broke your rules and will endeavour not to again.


    That's your conclusion. Now that the authorities have been made aware of this behaviour we'll see what they conclude.
     
  6. hussain

    hussain New Member

    This is the anonymous zionist troublemaker who has refused to apologise for insulting the Prophet (SAWS) so I suspect his "contrition" here is somewhat facetious.

    Why any Muslim would want to engage in any dialogue at all with such a person - who has been invited to Islam and invited to apologise for his insults against Islam and the Prophet (SAWS) and declined both offers - is something of a mystery to me. Especially as he hides his identity while making offensive remarks and doing his cyberstalking.
     
  7. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Omnipitus,

    Frankly, I haven't read Ibn Myatt's post due to lack of time. I would be grateful if you can simply quote certain passages from his post that you feel violate Anti-Terror laws.

    Thanks.
     
  8. omnipitus2006

    omnipitus2006 New Member


    Frankly, if you haven't even made the basic effort to read the posts on the forum you moderate then you are being negligent in your responsibilities. There is no need to quote certain passages, just read the essay in question and judge for yourself. If you do not think it violates any of the UK's laws then that is your opinion. However it's not really up to you or I to decide if it does violate the law. Britain has a very capable judicial system who get paid to do exactly this kind of thing.
     
  9. hussain

    hussain New Member

    the anonymous zionist who has insulted the Prophet (SAWS) continues to post here and Muslims continue to reply to him (shame) .....

    ... and he misses the point as well - "Al-Hukm is for Allah alone". As is ahkam.
     
  10. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    Ive complained about this before

    we get people coming here for the sole purpose of making fitna and they get entertained as much as they want.

    Im all for dialogue with non muslims but entertaining people who insult the prophet salalahu alayhi wasalam is taking things way toooooo far.



    Akhi AZ bann him.If I had my way the others would be banned aswell.


    wasalam
     
  11. hussain

    hussain New Member

    Well said Akhi.

    As for insulting the Prophet, maybe more here should take note of the following:

     
  12. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Moderating the forums is a shared responsibility as is preventing terrorism. If you've noticed something violating the Anti-Terror act it is your civil and moral responsibility to inform us of what you exactly noticed. Not doing so will get you as much in trouble as the rest of us.

    To everyone else, please point out where he insulted the Prophet on these forums and his posts will be dealt with.
     
  13. hussain

    hussain New Member

    Not here, on IA, but elsewhere, especially on usenet where for many years he has posted his pro zionist bile, and his insults against the Prophet (SAWS) and Islam.

    he was politely asked, on usenet, to apologise for such insults, and refused to apologise.
     
  14. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    We are not responsible for what he says elsewhere.

    For argument's sake, even if he did say something here insulting to the Prophet, only his post would be edited/removed and he would be warned not to do that again. He wouldn't be banned.

    Forums are meant for discussions.
     
  15. hussain

    hussain New Member

    He is responsible for what he says elsewhere, and should be judged by what he says (and does).

    Interesting. so you'd try to rationally debate with someone who's insulted the Prophet (SAWS) and who'se refused to apologise?

    You don't mind the insults then?
     
  16. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    Why not?
    I do, which is why insults and blasphemes are always censored.
     
  17. Ibn malik

    Ibn malik New Member

    Akh A.Zubair. I understand you are trying to afford this clown the space to discuss, but I find your position at fault because of the fact that if a Muslim who supports the struggles around the world were to go on the Evangelical/Neocon Forums and voiced his support, it is promptly followed by a Ban. No dicussion ensues where each camp presents its arguments. You are simply told to "go back to Africa/Pakistan/Saudi Arabia" and called a terrorist.

    I don't see the blame when Muslims act according to the norm, and repay with the like thereof.

    Just my thoughts. Salam
     
  18. Expergefactionist

    Expergefactionist hmmm... Staff Member

    JK for your thoughts, and I guess it makes us better.
     
  19. Ibn malik

    Ibn malik New Member

    lol maybe......
     
  20. Hamza

    Hamza Member

    There is nothing wrong with the original article.
     

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