Is Using A Tasbeeh Biddah (beads)

Discussion in 'Islamic Law' started by student_of_ilm, Apr 7, 2008.

  1. student_of_ilm

    student_of_ilm New Member

    salam alaikum

    I want to know if using a tasbeeh is a biddah, alot of my salafi friends tell me that it is ?

    salams
     
  2. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    w alaykum assalam

    Not all Salafi scholars believed it to be bidah.

    shaikh Ibn Uthaimin rahimahu Allah was one of the scholars who didn't believe it was bidah.

    you will find shaikh Ibn Uthaimin's fatwa regarding it in the following answer from Islam Q&A website:


    http://www.islamqa.com/index.php?ref=3009&ln=eng&txt=prayer%20beads


    Shaykh Muhammad ibn Saalih al-‘Uthaymeen (al-Liqa’ al-Maftooh, 3/30) was asked whether using the masbahah for tasbeeh is bid’ah, and his reply was: “It is better not to do tasbeeh with the masbahah, but it is not bid’ah, because there is a basis for it, which is the fact that some of the Sahaabah did tasbeeh with pebbles. But the Messenger [​IMG] (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) taught that tasbeeh with the fingers is better, as he said, ‘Count with the fingertips, for they will be made to speak.’ Doing tasbeeh with the masbahah is not haraam or bid’ah, but it is better not to do it, because the one who does tasbeeh with the masbahah has shunned something better. Using the masbahah may also be contaminated with some element of showing off, because we see some people carrying masbahahs that contain a thousand beads, as if they are telling people, ‘Look at me, I do a thousand tasbeehs!’ Secondly, those who use the masbahah for tasbeeh are usually absent-minded and not focused, so you see them doing tasbeeh with the beads, but their gaze is wandering all over the place, which indicates that they are not really concentrating. It is better to do tasbeeh with one’s fingers, preferably using the right hand rather than the left, because the Prophet [​IMG] (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) used to count his tasbeeh on his right hand. If a person counts his tasbeeh using both hands, there is nothing wrong with that, but it is better to use the right hand only.”
     
  3. student_of_ilm

    student_of_ilm New Member

    Thank you for the greatttttttttttt answer.
     
  4. AbdullahAbid

    AbdullahAbid New Member

    Sa'd ibn Abu Waqqas reported that once the Prophet, peace be upon him, saw a woman who had some date-stones or pebbles which she was using as beads to glorify Allah. The Prophet, peace be upon him, said to her, "Let me tell you something which would be easier and more excellent for you than that." So he told her to say instead Subhan-Allah 'adada ma khalaqa fil-ard wa subhan Allah 'adada ma khalaqa bayna zhalika wa subhan-Allah 'adada ma huwa khaliq wa Allahu akhar mithla zhalik wa la ilaha illa-Allahu mithla zhalik wa la hawla wa la quwwata illa mithla zhalik (Glory be to Allah as many times as the number of what He has created in Heaven, Glory be to Allah as many times as the number of what He has created on Earth, Glory be to Allah as many times as the number of what He has created between them, Glory be to Allah as many times as the number of that which He is creating, Allah is the most great a similar number of times, praise be to Allah a similar number of times, and There is no god but Allah a similar number of times, and there is no might and no power except with Allah a similar number of times).'' (Reported by the Compilers of the Sunan and Al-Hakim, who says it is a sound hadith according to the criterion of Muslim

    الراوي: سعد بن أبي وقاص
    أنه دخل مع رسول الله صلى الله عليه وسلم على امرأة وبين يديها نوى أو حصى تسبح به فقال أخبرك بما هو أيسر عليك من هذا أو أفضل ؟ - فقال : - سبحان الله عدد ما خلق في السماء ، سبحان الله عدد ما خلق في الأرض ، سبحان الله عدد ما بين ذلك ، سبحان الله عدد ما هو خالق ، والله أكبر مثل ذلك ، والحمد لله مثل ذلك ، ولا إله إلا الله مثل ذلك ، ولا حول ولا قوة إلا بالله مثل ذلك
     
  5. Abu Treika

    Abu Treika Magoo

    thread moved to fiqh and application
     
  6. Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri

    Abu Dharr Al Kashmiri إني أحبك في الله ♥♥♥

    magoo check ur inbox
     
  7. Abu Treika

    Abu Treika Magoo

    sorted bro
     
  8. Madarijas-Salikeen

    Madarijas-Salikeen <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    Sometimes ill use the beads and just go through 'la illaha illa allah' multiple times. Is this alright? I dont even specify but i find that i concentrate better if im using the dhikr beads.
     
  9. Salsabil

    Salsabil Pro-Tawheed

    I find them useful too. When I have them in my hand, I tend to do much more zikr, than otherwise, however, I dont count a particular number either. Sometimes I do tasbeeh on fingers too. I wonder if its OK? It seems Ibn Uthaymin (r) says its OK? Or is this another strange opinion from him?
     
  10. Deobandi_Sapahi_1866

    Deobandi_Sapahi_1866 [U.P. Islamic Battalion]

    tasbeeh...



    trust me i dont want to begin a civil war , however its just a common tactic of a certain hizb who i will only refer to as "SS" to claim the use of tasbeeh is bidah. its apart of their "dawah" to take such a minor thing which isnt at all bidah as we can see from our brothers great compilations, however they strive to make minor issues a difference of kufr and belief, ie: if its cold outside for instance and you put your pant legs down to keep your legs warm they make takfir on you and insist you are "mis guided" or as they trademark the phrase "off the manhaj" in the same way if you do not subscribe to their nafs oriented cult doctrine of how to preform salaat then also they are very harsh on you. but at the same time a real kafir (jew, xitan etc.) approaches them they smile at them and treat them like royalty...madness pure madness....

    ..of course i cant forget to mention..

    BEWARE THE BRELVI MENACE.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2008
  11. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA



    Asalamualaykum,

    Akhi Im no fan of madkhalis but to say they make takfir of people who have their trousers below the ankles is wrong.

    I used to pray without performing raf ul yadain(before and after ruku)i.e the hanafi way in a salafi mosque and when I first started praying there(i.e the salafi mosque)I was expecting the salafi brothers to jump on me and say akhi akhi what are you doing dont you know its sunnah to raise your hands before and after ruku? But they never did, no one ever bothered me like that,now I have started to pray with raf ul yadain.

    Yes a few years ago the salafis were like that,but it seems now they have calmed down and are more tolerant of the valid ikhtilaf issues.


    wasalam
     
  12. Yasir

    Yasir لك الله يا مهبط الوحي

    Deobandi_Sapahi_1866, you omitted the mention of those opposing them and their equivalent fervour in creating sectarian issues.
     
  13. statements from the salaf or early khalaf pls regarding this matter , not bin uthaymeen.pfff
     
  14. Madarijas-Salikeen

    Madarijas-Salikeen <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    look at the narrations of the Sahabah radiallahu anhum bro. The nabi salalahu alayhi wa salam did not criticize their counting on stones.
     
  15. Um Abdullah M.

    Um Abdullah M. Nothing

    plz speak with respect when mentioning shaikh Ibn Uthaimin rahimahu Allah or keep silent if you have nothing good to say.
     
  16. AbuNaim

    AbuNaim New Member

    A very detailed view;


    Prayer Beads: Muslim unity hanging by a thread

    http://web.mac.com/jawziyyah/The_Jawziyyah_Institute/Reading_Room_files/Beads.pdf

    Additional info:

    Albani declares masbahah bid’ah when he continued saying :
    1. “Firstly, the subhah [masbahah] is bid’ah and was not known at the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him).”

    2. “Moreover, people have invented so many sophisticated ways of following this bid’ah, so you see the followers of one of the [Sufi] tareeqahs wearing the masbahah around their necks!”

    **Question : What the Prophet s.a.w. approved is bid’ah ??? (hadiths provided below)


    To prove his point that Masbahah is bid’ah he offered this hadith :
    “The evidence for what I have said is the report narrated by Ibn Waddaah in Al-Bid’ wa’l-Nahy ‘anhaa from al-Salt ibn Bahraam, who said: ‘Ibn Mas’ood passed by a woman who had a [masbahah] with which she was making tasbeeh, and he broke it and threw it aside, then he passed by a man who was making tasbeeh with pebbles, and he kicked him then said, “You think you are better than the Sahaabah, but you are following unjustified bid’ah! You think you have more knowledge than the Companions of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)!”’ Its isnaad is saheeh to al-Salt, who is one of the trustworthy (thiqah) followers of the Taabi’een.”

    This hadith has been declared dha’if(weak) by the Hadith Master Shaikh Mahmood Sa’eed Mamdooh in his Wusooll at-Tahaani bi Ithbaat Sunniyyat al-Subhah wa ar-Radd `ala al-Albaani :

    هذا إسناد ضعيف للانقطاع الذي بين الصلت بن بهرام وابن مسعود رضي الله عنه لأن بن بهرام وإن كان ثقة ، لكنه من أتباع التابعين ، التهذيب

    “This Isnad is weak for there is a break (Inqita’) between Salt ibn Bahraam and Ibn Ma’sud. Now Ibn Bahraam was indeed Thiqa, but he is from the followers of the Tabi’in.”

    In any case, even if the hadith is sahih i.e. that Salt ibn Bahraam r.a. did relate it, it still does not amount to solid evidence for prohibiting the masbahah. This is because if an action of a sahabi contradicts that of the Prophet s.a.w. the former is dismissed without ceremony.

    The following are some ahadith on the issue :

    Ibn Sa’ad reports that Abu Hurayrah would make Tasbeeh with a collection of seeds (or pebbles). [ Tabaqaat 106/3 or 346/6]

    Imaam Ahmad in his “Zuhd” says: “‘Affaan informed us, Abdul Waahid ibn Ziyaad informed us from Yunus ibn ‘Ubayd, from His mother who said, “I saw Abaa Safiyyah – [who] was a man from the Sahabah of the Messenger of Allah (saaws) and he was a treasurer – She said he would make Tasbeeh with stones.”

    Ibn Sa’ad reports from Hukaym ibn Daylami that Sa’ad ibn Abi Waqqaas would make Tasbeeh with stones. [At Tabaqaat Al Kubraa]

    Imaam Ahmad reports in Az-Zuhd from Al Qaasim ibn Abdur Rahmaan who said that Abi Dardaa’ had seeds from pressed dates in a bag. When he had made morning Salah, he would remove one by one from it (the bag), making Tasbeeh with them, until they had finished. [Az-Zuhd page 205]

    From Safiyyah who said, ” The Messenger of Allah (saaws) entered upon me and between my hands were four thousand Nawaah (stones or seeds) [that I was making] tasbeeh with. The Nabi said, “You are making tasbeeh with this?! Shall I not teach you that which is greater than this tasbeeh?!” So I said, “Teach me!” So He said, “Say, Subhaan Allah ‘Adada Khaliqih”.

    This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At Tirmithi who said after it, “Ghareeb, I only know the hadeeth of Safiyyah by this direction…”

    This hadith has also been resported by Al-Hakim in his Mustadarak.

    “From Sa’ad ibn Abi Waqqaas that he entered with the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) upon a woman and between her hands was a Nawaa (seeds, pebbles) or Hasaa (stones or pebbles) that she was [counting] tasbeeh with…”

    This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At-Tirmithi who said, “Hasan Ghareeb from the hadeeth of Sa’ad”. It is also reported by Imaam Abu Daawood in his Sunan, Imaam An Nasaa’i, Ibn Hibbaan, and Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said. “Its isnaad is Saheeh, and [they i.e. Bukhaari and muslim] did not report it” and Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.

    Conclusion:

    From the evidences provided one may come to two conclusions about Albani on this issue:

    Either Albani the so called “Sheikh Al-Hadith” was unaware of such instances where the companions used to do the tasbeeh with masbahah i.e. pebbles(during the life of Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. , which would make him a very poor “Sheikhul Hadith” indeed) and ignorantly declared the companions to be Ahl Bid’ah(na’udhubillah) or that he did know of the narrations and just had a sick habit of mocking the Sunnah and the Sahabah.

    http://seekingilm.com/archives/156

    PS:

    Find attached Wusul al Tahani a Radd on al Albani on this issue
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Abu Ibrahim al-Khurasani

    Abu Ibrahim al-Khurasani كل ميسر لمـا خلق لـه

    this is the fatwa on Sabha by Sheikh al Islaam ibn Taymiyyah (may Allah have mercy on him):


    قال شيخ الإسلام ابن تيمية يرحمه الله كما في : "مجموع الفتاوي" (22/506) ـ :
    وأما التسبيح بما يجعل في نظام من الخرز، ونحوه، فمن الناس من كرهه، ومنهم من لم يكرهه، وإذا أحسنت فيه النية، فهوحسن غير مكروه



    Basically Sheikh al Islam says that if your intention is right then it is good and not makrooh
    .
    what he means by intention WAllahu A'lam is that you dont use it to show off.

    Secondly it could mean that you dont take it (beads) as a part of the religion because the Messenger of Allah sallallahu alaihe wasallam said:''Whoever invents (ahdatha) in this matter of ours what is not from it, then it is rejected''. then this will be counted as bid'ah.

    He says in the same paragraph:

    وأما اتخاذه من غير حاجة، أو إظهاره للناس ـ مثل تعليقة في العنق، أو جعله كالسوار في اليد، أو نحو ذلك ـ فهذا إما رياء للناس، أو مظنة المراءاة ومشابهة المرائين من غير حاجة‏.‏ الأول محرم، والثاني أقل أحواله الكراهة؛ فإن مراءاة الناس في العبادات المختصة كالصلاة والصيام والذكر وقراءة القرآن من أعظم الذنوب، قال الله/تعالي‏:‏ ‏{‏فَوَيْلٌ لِّلْمُصَلِّينَ الَّذِينَ هُمْ عَن صَلَاتِهِمْ سَاهُونَ الَّذِينَ هُمْ يُرَاؤُونَ وَيَمْنَعُونَ الْمَاعُونَ‏}‏ ‏[‏الماعون‏:‏ 4، 7‏]‏، وقال تعالي‏:‏ ‏{‏إِنَّ الْمُنَافِقِينَ يُخَادِعُونَ اللّهَ وَهُوَ خَادِعُهُمْ وَإِذَا قَامُواْ إلى الصَّلاَةِ قَامُواْ كُسَالَي يُرَآؤُونَ النَّاسَ وَلاَ يَذْكُرُونَ اللّهَ إِلاَّ قَلِيلًا‏}‏ ‏[‏النساء‏:‏ 142‏]‏‏.‏

    meaning that those who use to show off to people e.g wearing it around the neck or hand etc then it is haram.
     
  18. junaid123

    junaid123 New Member

    The following narrations are proofs for the permissibility of using the Masbahah:

    First Proof:
    "From Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas that he entered with the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam) upon a woman and between her hands was a Nawaa (seeds, pebbles) or Hasaa (stones or pebbles) that she was [counting] tasbeeh with…"

    This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At-Tirmithi who said, "Hasan Ghareeb from the hadeeth of Sa'ad". It is also reported by Imaam Abu Daawood in his Sunan, Imaam An Nasaa'i, Ibn Hibbaan, and Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said. "Its isnaad is Saheeh, and [they i.e. Bukhaari and muslim] did not report it" and Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him.


    Second Proof:

    From Safiyyah who said, " The Messenger of Allah (saaws) entered upon me and between my hands were four thousand Nawaah (stones or seeds) [that I was making] tasbeeh with. The Nabi said, "You are making tasbeeh with this?! Shall I not teach you that which is greater than this tasbeeh?!" So I said, "Teach me!" So He said, "Say, Subhaan Allah 'Adada Khaliqih".

    This hadeeth is reported by Imaam At Tirmithi who said after it, "Ghareeb, I only know the hadeeth of Safiyyah by this direction…"

    It was also reported by Imaam Al Haakim in his Mustadarak who said, "[This] Hadeeth is Saheeh and they did not report it." And Imaam Adh-Dhahabi agreed with him. It was also authenticated by Imaam As-Suyooti.

    Imaam Ash-Shawkaani states in his Nayl Al Awtaar that these two ahadeeth are proof of the permissibility of counting the Tasbeeh with seeds, stones, or the likes and that is because of the approval of the Nabi (sallallahu 'Alayhi Wa Sallam) of these two women using them.



    Other proofs from the Sahaba are as follows,

    Third Proof:
    Imaam Ahmad in his "Zuhd" says: "'Affaan informed us, Abdul Waahid ibn Ziyaad informed us from Yunus ibn 'Ubayd, from His mother who said, "I saw Abaa Safiyyah – [who] was a man from the Sahabah of the Messenger of Allah (saaws) and he was a treasurer – She said he would make Tasbeeh with stones."


    Fourth Proof:

    Ibn Sa'ad reports from Hukaym ibn Daylami that Sa'ad ibn Abi Waqqaas would make Tasbeeh with stones. [At Tabaqaat Al Kubraa]


    fifth Proof:
    Imaam Ahmad reports in Az-Zuhd from Al Qaasim ibn Abdur Rahmaan who said that Abi Dardaa' had seeds from pressed dates in a bag. When he had made morning Salah, he would remove one by one from it (the bag), making Tasbeeh with them, until they had finished. [Az-Zuhd page 205]


    sixth Proof
    Ibn Sa'ad reports that Abu Hurayrah would make Tasbeeh with a collection of seeds (or pebbles). [ Tabaqaat 106/3 or 346/6]


    seventh Proof
    Imaam Ad-Daylami reports in his Musnad Al Firdaws from the way of Zaynab bint Sulaymaan ibn 'Ali, from Umm Al Hasan bint Ja'far, from her father, from her grandfather, from Ali ibn Abi Taalib marfoo'an: "Yes! Al Muththakir [I reminder you to use] the Subhah!" [Musnad Al Firdaws bi Ma'thoor Al Khitaab]


    Lastly, Imaam As Suyootee said in his section called "Al Manhah fis Subhah", "And there is nothing transmitted from anyone from the salaf or the khalaf, the forbiddance of the permissibility of counting the Tasbeeh with the Subhah. Rather, many of them turned away from it, but they didn't see that (using it) as Makrooh."
     
  19. Madarijas-Salikeen

    Madarijas-Salikeen <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    as salaamu alaykum,

    Jazakallah khayr for all the brothers who defended the tasbeeh beads with evidence. May Allah guide us to unity and keep us away from harshness.
     
  20. C47

    C47 <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    I read in a book by Sameh Strauch (Common Misconceptions), wherein is the topic of beads, it mentions about a companion (i think Ibn Masud) when he saw someone using beads (or seeds), he kicked them calling them innovation...there was another narration too, and Sh. Al-Albaani used these to hold such a view....

    Sh. Al-Albaani being a scholar of hadith....i think he knows if the others have some weakness in their sanad or not.....better to be on the safe side and use fingers

    i prefer to use fingers.....it makes sense....coz a person using his/her fingers should get more rewards, as intention is too follow the Sunnah, by doing Dhikr on fingers and secondly the Prophet (PBUH) never prescribed a number (like 1000), so it is feasible

    thirdly, we could be imitating kuffar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prayer_beads) by the use of these beads.....so better to stick to Prophetic way....

    at max it is 100 times (mentioned in hadith) which is do-able on the hand...beyond that if someone wishes to do more they can stop using their hands and keep reciting still they stop

    its always better to be on the safe side...and it is confirmed that the Prophet(PBUH) DID use his fingers for DHIKR and never was he seen using beads.

    when the deviant sufi started prescribing ridiculous formulas is when the problem started
     

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