Jahmi allegation on Ibn Uthaymeen and Ibn Qayyim

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by ubaid88, May 30, 2011.

  1. ubaid88

    ubaid88 New Member

    As Salam Elekum wr wb,

    A Jahmi asked to show this Hadith from Musnad Ahmed.

    He this copied from Faqir's thread in Sf by name of Attributes of Salafi God.
    Last edited: May 30, 2011
  2. This Hadith was narrated by Imam Ahmad according to several sources, namely adh-Dhahabi, al-Bazzar, his son Abd Allah, Ibn Abi Ya'alaa, Ibn Abi Hatim, and others.

    It does not appear in the Musnad of Imam Ahmad.

    Ibn Uthaymin did not lie since he never mentioned it as being from Musnad Ahmad.

    I have not seen the Athar attributed to Ibn Abbas from Imam Ahmad, so I cannot comment on it.
  3. artistic muslim

    artistic muslim Musafir

    This is from the multaqa ahl al hadeeth, shortened:

    تفصيل القول في جلوس الرب عز وجل:
    ذكر الإمام عبد الله بن الإمام أحمد في كتاب السنة (الذي حققه وقرأ الشيخ القحطاني) تحت عنوان "سئل عما روي في الكرسي وجلوس الرب عز وجل عليه" حديث عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه: )) إذا جلس تبارك وتعالى على الكرسي سمع له أطيط كأطيط الرحل الجديد((.
    رواه من طريق الإمام أحمد عن عبد الرحمن عن سفيان عن أبي إسحاق عن عبد الله بن خليفة عن عمر موقوفاً( ) .
    ورواه عبد الله أيضاً عن الإمام أحمد قال: نا وكيع بحديث إسرائيل عن أبي إسحاق عن عبد الله بن خليفة عن عمر بن الخطاب رضي الله عنه قال: ))إذا جلس الرب عز وجل على الكرسي(( فاقشعرَّ رجل، سماه أبي، عند وكيع، فغضب وكيع وقال: ))أدركنا الأعمش وسفيان يحدثون بهذه الأحاديث لا ينكرونها((( ).

    Trans: Abdullah the son of Ahmad mentions in Kitab al Sunnah under Chapter "what is narrated regarding His kursi and Juloos" and then quotes the hadith from Umar b Khattab about the sound when Allah azza wa jall sits on the throne.

    The narration of Ibn Qayyim by way of Ibn Abbas is also mentioned in al-Azmah although there are criticisms of all these narrations individually, the basic principle would be as Ibn Taymiyah says

    وإذا كان قعود الميت في قبره ليس هو مثل قعود البدن، فما جاءت به الآثار عن النبي -صلى الله عليه وسلم- من لفظ "القعود" و "الجلوس" في حق الله تعالى، كحديث جعفر بن أبي طالب رضي الله عنه، وحديث عمر رضي الله عنه وغيرهما، أولى أن لا يماثل صفات أجسام العباد

    If the sitting of the dead in their graves is not like the sitting of the living bodies then the narratiosn which come from the Prophet peace and blessings of Allah be on him which mention qu'ood and juloos for Allah such as the one of Ja'far b abi talib and Umar and others these deserve even more not to be equated with the sitting of the bodies of the creation.
  4. Abu Osaama

    Abu Osaama <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    THis sums it up, I don't really understand what's so hard to understand, his sitting ta'ala is not like ours plain and simple, alhamdulilah
  5. artistic muslim

    artistic muslim Musafir

    Unfortunately the Jahmis have as much to do with plain and simple understanding as the wolf did with the disappearance of Yusuf, alaihi'l salam.
  6. My apologies, I didn't see this before-

    Wa Alayk as-Salaam.
  7. Butterknife al-Batil

    Butterknife al-Batil <A HREF="showthread.php?t=70991"></A>

    There's nothing authentic that speaks of Allaah sitting
  8. 'Nothing' but the Arabic language itself and the opinions of the Salaf as-Salih. Most of us already know that's 'nothing' in your esteem...

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