Nabi (saw) noor is made From Allah's noor!!

Discussion in 'Islamic Theology and Ideology' started by abubakr, May 28, 2007.

  1. abubakr

    abubakr Member

    Look at the following link where Pir Qadir Jilani tries to prove that the hadith of Jabir is authentic and that Nabi saw's noor was created from Allah's own noor.

    Isnt this belief shirk as how can the prophet have Allah's noor inside him?

    (perhaps bro bilal can look at this instead of concentrating on minor issues such as raful yadein
     
  2. abubakr

    abubakr Member

  3. joefso

    joefso New Member

    I can't see the video but I know it implys the light, not Allaah Ta'ala's nur. It's meant that it's like a lamp, read the tafsir of qurtubi, jaludin and attabri on the verse. Ibn Kathir says it's quran.

    "There has come to you a Light from Allah, and a Manifest Book" (Qur’an 5:15).

    According to these mufassirs it means the Prophet Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  4. ibnfaruk

    ibnfaruk New Member

    Assalamualaikum to all, Sufis are Dhahiris when it suits them , may Allah swt protect us from their inconsistant interpretation of Islam and guide us to what is beloved to Him.

    salams
     
  5. abubakr

    abubakr Member

    It clearly says he created the prophets nur from his own nur!!
     
  6. joefso

    joefso New Member

    dude,

    on the frontpage you can read the ahadith:
    Noor of Allaah does not show that this is an attribute of Allaah, it's a ascriptive construction, also know as idafa tashrief or an ascription of ennoblement, like the title Bayt Allaah, this doesn't mean Allaah lives inside of it right (auzobillah)? It's a name for nobility, less that it's a divine attribute.

    Read the tafsir of the verse I showed, you can start here.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  7. abubakr

    abubakr Member

    hmmm akhi you sound familiar if im not mistaken I think you post on yanabi or shall i say yashirk forums and you agree with their beliefs??
     
  8. abubakr

    abubakr Member

    The ayat you gave shows how the light ie Nabi saw refers to him being a light of guidance not created from light.
     
  9. joefso

    joefso New Member

    yes I'm active at yanabi, and I'm reading lots of forums. I don't refer to myself sunni, wahabi, salafi or whatever, just Muslim. And I only follow Haqiqa.

    Yes, the ahadith confirms that. See post #6. So, what it actually means, the Prophet Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam is nur and bashr, like a ruby between stones.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2007
  10. abubakr

    abubakr Member

    Simple question is nabi saw made from noor?
     
  11. joefso

    joefso New Member

    ofcourse not. And the folks at yanabi don't believe that either, go and ask them. They will confirm what I said.
     
  12. abubakr

    abubakr Member

  13. joefso

    joefso New Member

    I read the text, and It says: "The Aqeeda of the Ahle Sunnat Wa Jama'at is that he is both Noor and a human being.". So this is what they believe, the noor as an enoblement. It doesn't conflict with the explanation of the mufasirs. If so please tell me where the shoe bumps.
     
  14. suhail

    suhail New Member

    Assalaam Alykum,

    And you read just one line. Please read that whole thing before we come to any conclusion. I am cuttin and pasting the lines now.

    "The Aqeeda of the Ahle Sunnat Wa Jama'at is that he is both Noor and a human being.The being and existence of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is even before that of human beings, but when he came into this world he came in the garb of a human being."

    It doesnt mean what you say brother Joe. It says what abu bakr was trying to say that they consider Prophet Sallhu Alyhe wa sallam to be a noor i.e. made of noor but he came in a garb of a human being. There is no misunderstanding here. It is a clear cut text.

    Now another of the quote from that article

    " We know that Hazrat Jibraeel (alaihis salaam) is made of Noor but when he used to appear before Hazrat Maryam (radi Allahu anha) he used to appear in the form of a human being."

    What does this mean?

    " Sayyida Halima Sa'adiya (radi Allahu anha), the wet-nurse of the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), believed the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) to be Noor. She said that when she used to feed the Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) milk in his infancy, she never felt the need for a light in her house. (Bayaanul Miladun Nabwi; Tafseer Mazhari)."

    and this?

    " Hazrat Jabir bin Abdullah Ansari (radi Allahu anhu) reports: I asked: "O Prophet of Allah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam), What did the Almighty Allah first create?" The Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) replied: "Allah first created my Noor (Light) of His Noor. This Noor travelled about according to the Will of Allah. At that time, there was no Heaven, Hell, Lawh (Divine Tablet), Pen, Earth, Skies, Sun, Moon, Jinn or Human Beings. When He decided to create, He divided that Noor into four parts. From one part He created the Pen, from the second, the Lawh and from the third, he made the Arsh (Throne).
    "He divided the fourth part into a further four parts. From one, He created those Angels who carry the Arsh, from the second, the Kursi (Divine Chair) and from the third, He created the Angels.
    "He again divided the remaining parts into a further four parts. From one, He created the skies. The second was used in creating the planets. From the third, Heaven and Earth were created.
    "Once again, He divided the fourth part into a further four parts. From one part He created the power with which the believers see. From the second, He created in the hearts of the Believers the Noor of Marifat. From the third, He created in the tongues of the Believers, Noor, so that they can read the Kalima of Tauheed". (Dalaa'il-un-Nubuwwat, Imam Baihaqi)
    This astonishing Hadith Shareef proves that Sayyiduna Rasoolullah (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) is the life of this world and everything in it. When he is the life of this world, then everything that happens in it is clear to him and nothing is concealed from him. Who then can deny that he is not Noor (light)? "

    And this?

    Brother Barelwis are known to have this faith that the Prophet Sallahu Alyhe wa sallam is made of noor and he not a human. It is known to everyone. And yanabi forum believes the same thing. They dont hide this thing because that is what they believe.

    Jazakallah Khair
    Suhail
     
  15. joefso

    joefso New Member

    Wa'alaykoem assalaamu wa raghmatoelahi wa barakathu,

    I don't believe it's Allah's noor as in a divine attribute. Nor does the text imply it is. What the text imply's is that RasoolAllaah Sallaho ALayhi Wasalam light is the most powerful one in the whole universe. Why? Because I believe(guess you do to), RassoolAllaah Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam is the nearest created being to Allaah Subhanu Wa Talah, however he is obvious not the only one. Malaikya are made of nur, The Quran is nur, the spirits of us human beings are nur, and imaan is nur. So, it depends upon your faith, ilm and virtue.

    That angels are not bashr. RasoolAllaah Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam is nur and bashr. Like a ruby between stones.

    Lol, ofcourse, not physical light, but it shows how love is illuminated trough it. Her satisfaction of feeding him Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam, her love for him, altough she was a nurse, she loved him like his son. Who wouldn't?

    Let me explain how I understand it. For example, Fatimah found a deal of solace and comfort, in Ali Radi Allaah Anhu, who was about two years older than she, she found a "brother" and a friend who somehow took the place of her own brother al-Qasim who had died in his infancy. Her other brother Abdullah, known as the Good and the Pure, who was born after her, also died in his infancy. However in none of the people in her father's household did Fatimah find the carefree joy and happiness which she enjoyed with her sisters. She was an unusually sensitive child for her age.

    So what I'm trying to say, it means she is happy. RasoolAllah Sallaho ALayhi wasalam gave brightness in darkness and emptiness.

    Earth, Sky, Sun, Moon, Human, Djin etc.. is this creation the Nur of Allaah as in divine part? In sense of, ennoblement of Allaah Ta'ala His Power it is, but literally nur? I guess no. For example it's nur when we say Kalima of Tawhid, but literaly? No, right? It's a ennoblement. For example when someone embraces Islam, somtimes people say, I see Nur in his face, this is a ennoblement. They love this person because Allaah Subhanu Wa Talah loves him! He guided this person. Bashar means created from clay(i.e fundamental attachment to earth), we are not equal to RasoolAllaah Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam if you add light to it, as an empathize, you ennoble the creation. As RasoolAllah Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam is best of creation, he is most noble of all.

    Words can't describe people complete[that's why some people poet to express their feelings], you have to witness this person to understand them in reality. Perhaps you know this saying, in Holland it's known, the saying is: A picture can say more then one thousands words.


    This is my point of view.

    Djazak Allaah && wa'alaykoem asslaamu wa raghmatoelahi wa barakathu
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2007
  16. suhail

    suhail New Member

    Assalaam Alykum,

    Brother you are confusing things here. What they are talking about is a literal noor of Allah that is his essence. While what you are talking about is a methaphoric meaning of noor which is totally different.

    I am saying this with experience about barelvis because i have lived with them for all my life. They are not talking about a metaphoric meaning in that article. Maybe a knowledgable brother can point out more stuff than me.

    Jazakallah Khair
    Suhail
     
  17. joefso

    joefso New Member

    I don't know them all my life, but, I read the 'Doctrine on Prophet Sllaho Alayhi Wa Salam' section', on the forums. And I never found any of the appreciated members saying physical creation of nur as in literal. Just to make sure, I'm Insh'Allaah tomorrow going visit a barlewi mosk, and ask them in person.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2007
  18. abubakr

    abubakr Member

  19. Die for Allah

    Die for Allah TIOCFAIDH AR LA

    Asalamualaykum,


    Akhi Joe word of advice, keep well away from those people on that forum they promote shirk and biddah and are actively calling to such.

    If you value your eman you will take my advice.

    wasalam
     
  20. joefso

    joefso New Member

    Assalaamu alaykoem wa raghmatoelahi wa barakathu,


    I went to berlewi Masjid, and they didn't affirm that RassolAllaah Sallaho Alayhi Wasalam was made of nur in literal sense, as in a divine attribute of Allaah. By the way, Pakistanis are friendly people and I like their taste of food. They are traditional people, I like that i.e eating on the floor.


    Brother waziri, I'm going to be honest, lots of people say such and such is sect and deviant. Keep away from such and such ....... you'r putting yourself in a box if you do such a thing at a level of a layman. I don't put my faith in human hands, so I can only accept the truth and what my intellect can handle. And I can only accept from those who relate what is against them and what is for them. Therefore, I don't boycot anyone, and keep on listening what every Muslim has to say. If you assume that this damages someone imaan, then I guess such level of imaan is not much of value.


    As a final word, I would like to thank you for your advise and Insh'Allaah you won't forget me in your dua's.


    Djazak Allaah && wa'alaykoem assalaamu wa raghmatoelahi wa barakathu
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2007

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